Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations

About the Burudin thing, while I'm unsure myself what is the best decision on its face it looks like joining has large benefits without real drawbacks(mechanical), except our relations with Yorri taking a hit.
If we consider this from a metagaming perspective it looks like saying no is an unequal option, this leads me to believe that the no to the Burudin option will lead through Yorri to something equal to consulting with the best runesmiths in the realm. Hence it's likely that Yorri, like the squirrel he is, sits on some of Durin's legacy(or something similar) and we may get some if we say no.
I just can't imagine that the No option doesn't hide some mechanical reward that would be of similar value to the Yes option.

That said, the real decision should be:
we want more interaction with Yorri
or
we want more interaction with the members of the Burudin.

I am not sure it makes sense to consider all options equal. I mean at the end of the day this is supposed to model a living world and in a world there are sometimes better and worse choices, if everything leads to equivalent benefits than all our choices are just window-dressing.
 
[X ] [Burudin:] Yes:
Gain title, Member of the Burudin. Options Unlocked. Yorri is too plagued by his mysterious old hurts to see the truth. Accept Alric's offer, and join the Burudin.

[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.
 
I am not sure it makes sense to consider all options equal. I mean at the end of the day this is supposed to model a living world and in a world there are sometimes better and worse choices, if everything leads to equivalent benefits than all our choices are just window-dressing.
I may be wrong here but most of our decisions don't carry as much (potential) mechanical weight as consulting with some of the best and oldest smiths.
Not all the options are equal but they should be equally viable if that makes more sense.
Even if I am wrong, my point is about choosing which interactions we want more, Yorri or the members of the Burudin, still stands.
 
Also no one has brought it up but Building Runes. Anyone have the old WoG from when we were discussing the springs and anyone have any fun ideas. I want to compress Hearthward into MWinterhearth and use that. Because no we're not struggling with actions enough. However also making a building sized Amplifier combo containing dozens of Runesmiths could be hilarious.
There's that /??? where we don't actually know what we'd get from it, but probably something from Yorri.
Seriously? The ??? means we don't know what it is, it could be Burudin are vaguely offended by our refusal as much as it could be Yorri gives us a prize.
If you want to speculate about what it is, justify that rather than just assuming that its a positive.
I genuinely don't understand why Embrace is so popular. Why do we want all the Runesmiths bunking in our house rather than in a more appropriate place like a dorm in Khazid Okraz? What's so great about people invading our home that it's 4 times more popular than other options?
Back at the start of this someone was basically asking if we vote no, will one of the options be building the campus anyway.

Embrace is probably as popular as it is because it removes the ambiguity and the need to compete for the campus in the next vote rather than having to fight against making a couple dozen taverns and inns to host visitors. Having everything on site probably also appeals to people who like Snorri as an efficency/productivity meme. And finally, we've been pushing back against Runesmith culture for a long time, opportunities that Snorri sees where he can thread the political needle to make Runesmiths more cooperative are extremely rare so grabbing a little bit of ground here is a pretty rare opportunity.
And besides, its not like there is any option where Snorri lives alone in a studio flat, we've already made concessions in creating new workspaces to teach, Karstah set up her own workshop, the Hearthguard almost certainly will have a barracks anyway. Snorri's going to draw reasonable personal boundaries on his private space.
 
[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
Gain title, Member of the Burudin. Options Unlocked. Yorri is too plagued by his mysterious old hurts to see the truth. Accept Alric's offer, and join the Burudin.

[X] [Home:] Embrace
Fine. Fine. If the idiots are choosing to be cheeky and finagle a way to stay in your home, they're going to at least pay for the privilege! It will require a good deal of work, and cost a pretty penny both in time and effort, but if it's going to be done, then it's going to be done right. Your southern colleagues may grumble and growl, but when have they not? You're over a thousand years old, they can suck on a particularly porous piece of pumice for all you care! Unlocks further options
 
And finally, we've been pushing back against Runesmith culture for a long time, opportunities that Snorri sees where he can thread the political needle to make Runesmiths more cooperative are extremely rare so grabbing a little bit of ground here is a pretty rare opportunity.
I think you're reading far too much into this, and just how politically motivated Snorri is. Most of our political actions, in character, have more been Snorri doing what he thinks will help the most and ignoring the politics. He's not some political animal despite the fact that his actions do have political consequences, and I also think you're overestimating how political what doing this will be, as are the people going on about the runelord school or whatever.
And besides, its not like there is any option where Snorri lives alone in a studio flat, we've already made concessions in creating new workspaces to teach, Karstah set up her own workshop, the Hearthguard almost certainly will have a barracks anyway.
There's a large difference between living with his daughter & successor, and people that have sworn their lives to us who we have in turn sworn to provide for, and then also living with dozens of strangers who've come by to learn a rune or two then leave.
Edit: This is basically turning Snorri's home into a hotel. It's not logical, and for those after the whole "gift giver generosity" angle, it's not any more or less generous than setting up something for them outside, nor does it encourage cooperation any more than setting up a dedicated dorm outside. And those expecting this to somehow flip the runesmith paradigm and have everyone working on everything together haven't been following the quest, honestly. Frankly I don't get why it's a vote in the first place.
 
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[X] [Burudin:] No:
[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.
 
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I think you're reading far too much into this, and just how politically motivated Snorri is. Most of our political actions, in character, have more been Snorri doing what he thinks will help the most and ignoring the politics. He's not some political animal despite the fact that his actions do have political consequences, and I also think you're overestimating how political what doing this will be, as are the people going on about the runelord school or whatever.

We are not Yori the hermit, everything we do is political by definition. The notion that we and by extension Snori are not political are not political because we want to 'help the most', more than a bit naive. In the case of dwarfs as with any social species what will help the most is what will engage society the most, that is to say what is the most political.
 
We are not Yori the hermit, everything we do is political by definition. The notion that we and by extension Snori are not political are not political because we want to 'help the most', more than a bit naive. In the case of dwarfs as with any social species what will help the most is what will engage society the most, that is to say what is the most political.
We are not political in that we don't really want to do politics. But that hasn't stopped us yet from doing many political things if we thought them being the right thing to do. We didn't offer up the help to the survivors of Dum out of a opportunity to gather political capital but because it was the right thing to do.
 
We are not Yori the hermit, everything we do is political by definition. The notion that we and by extension Snori are not political are not political because we want to 'help the most', more than a bit naive. In the case of dwarfs as with any social species what will help the most is what will engage society the most, that is to say what is the most political.
Yes, I acknowledged that our actions have political repercussions, but at the same time Snorri is far from someone that's politically motivated. He's not doing this stuff with "let's take my trials and teaching as an opportunity to break my entire races apprenticeship culture and transition to a runic school". We do stuff, politics happens around it because of others, not because of Snorri. In character (and I stress that because, honestly, I'm hating a lot of what people are putting down as their justifications for this vote. I've seen Embrace justifications like "some of them will stay on as vassals", and the aforementioned out of touch idea of a rune school) Snorri isn't making statements intentionally, or trying to "play the game". He's just doing stuff to help people and doesn't care what most think. He's not trying to influence people to his way of thinking or anything.
Edit: Most of my frustration with this vote isn't the vote itself, but the justifications and (likely incorrect) expectations people have of it.
 
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We are not political in that we don't really want to do politics. But that hasn't stopped us yet from doing many political things if we thought them being the right thing to do. We didn't offer up the help to the survivors of Dum out of a opportunity to gather political capital but because it was the right thing to do.

And yet we still gathered that capital. Intent does not matter, by the simple position Snori's action and inaction are deeply political. Politics is not an end of itself, it is the means by which ends are achieved. When people say 'I do not like politics' what they usually mean is 'I do not like politicians' in my opinion. Somehow I do not think all those people would enjoy the state of total anarchy that would be the absence of all politics formal and informal.

Yes, I acknowledged that our actions have political repercussions, but at the same time Snorri is far from someone that's politically motivated. He's not doing this stuff with "let's take my trials and teaching as an opportunity to break my entire races apprenticeship culture and transition to a runic school". We do stuff, politics happens around it because of others, not because of Snorri. In character (and I stress that because, honestly, I'm hating a lot of what people are putting down as their justifications for this vote. I've seen Embrace justifications like "some of them will stay on as vassals", and the aforementioned out of touch idea of a rune school) Snorri isn't making statements intentionally, or trying to "play the game". He's just doing stuff to help people and doesn't care what most think. He's not trying to influence people to his way of thinking or anything.
Edit: Most of my frustration with this vote isn't the vote itself, but the justifications and (likely incorrect) expectations people have of it.

We are Snori, within certain limitations of his culture and previous character, we can actually change his motivation. We are not forever bound to the 'Snori way' or else there would be little point to the very concept of character development.
 
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And yet we still gathered that capital. Intent does not matter, by the simple position Snori's action and inaction are deeply political. Politics is not an end of itself, it is the means by which ends are achieved. When people say 'I do not like politics' what they usually mean is 'I do not like politicians' in my opinion. Somehow I do not think all those people would enjoy the state of total anarchy that would be the absence of all politics formal and informal.
I don't even get what you're trying to argue at this point. Snorri isn't doing this, or most things, with a political motivation. Wether or not others take his actions as politically motivated is irrelevant. Like your earlier statement of "opportunities that Snorri sees where he can thread the political needle to make Runesmiths more cooperative are extremely rare so grabbing a little bit of ground here is a pretty rare opportunity." makes no sense with Snorri's characterisation. He's not looking at this as a political opportunity. He's not actively looking for every chance to "thread the political needle". He's trying to decide which way is best to stop these idiots from napping inside his home. You're reading far too much into this, and likely also projecting your out of character motivations onto a pretty apolitical Snorri.
 
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Seriously? The ??? means we don't know what it is, it could be Burudin are vaguely offended by our refusal as much as it could be Yorri gives us a prize.
If you want to speculate about what it is, justify that rather than just assuming that its a positive.
it seems unlikely we'd get a vote with nothing but bad things as one of the options. Further Yorri seems to be getting closer and closer to telling us about what the hell he's got going on, and this seems likely to help make that happen. I agree we don't know what it is, but it seems to make narrative sense that Yorri would say or do something beneficial for us for listening to him here.
 
He's trying to decide which way is best to stop these idiots from napping inside his home. You're reading far too much into this, and likely also projecting your out of character motivations onto a very much apolitical Snorri.
Would be funny if 5 centuries down the line that became the reason everyone thinks Snorri did what he did.
And then they all him: i was tired of having beardlings sleeping underfoot.
 
I don't even get what you're trying to argue at this point. Snorri isn't doing this, or most things, with a political motivation. Wether or not others take his actions as politically motivated is irrelevant. Like your earlier statement of "opportunities that Snorri sees where he can thread the political needle to make Runesmiths more cooperative are extremely rare so grabbing a little bit of ground here is a pretty rare opportunity." makes no sense with Snorri's characterisation. He's not looking at this as a political opportunity. He's not actively looking for every chance to "thread the political needle". He's trying to decide which way is best to stop these idiots from napping inside his home. You're reading far too much into this, and likely also projecting your out of character motivations onto a pretty apolitical Snorri.

My argument is that his actions are political anyway, we might as well network with other dwarfs who are political powers in the same sphere (runesmithing) rather than simply charge though all our political stances like a bull in a china shop. Part of that decision also spills in how he behaves with his juniors as we have already made the quite radical position of teaching many runes to all comers. This decision to let them sleep nearer to hand would thus be a continuation of that. It is Snori's utilitarianism going one step further.
 
Minor addendum. There is the agrurhun as well, which is a pseudo pictographic script developed pre klinkarhun.
Aldrhun is the older, pictographic script of the Dwarfs.

Both Aldrhun and Klinkarhun are written Khazalid, the former's character and symbol-based while the latter is an alphabet.
I imagine Aldrhun and Agrurhun are the same thing.

It takes months of digging and frantic research, done in the dead of night when you ought to be asleep had your mind not deemed it less important, but you find out that your gut feeling has proven true. There are a startling number of similarities between Anoqeyån, Khazalid and the Aldrhun, more numerous and specific than simple happenstance can explain. At a cursory glance, no one would notice, but you've gotten good at following odd paths to reach even queerer conclusions, and once you find one the rest seem to fall into your lap. Sometimes the words are phonetically similar, the most archaic Khazalid term for something being only a few vowels and consonants different from the Anoqeyån, and other times it is in the structure of the script itself where both the Elven and Aldrhun rune share similarities in how they were written and the resulting character.
Canonically, Valaya is supposed to have invented the Dwarven script. But here Dwarven civilization is clearly older than the Ancestor Gods, and they likely had a script before Valaya. So here She invented the Klinkarhun specifically, with the older script being Aldhrun. And these older runes show similarity with Elven scripts, similarities which are unexplainable unless you assume both are derived from the same source.

"The records before the Coming of the Ancestors were not prone to say anything on the matter. Too busy detailing who wronged who and struck out for some other reason or another. Maybe they did, and that knowledge was lost to us because some King wanted the knowledge of whichever Clan knew the truth burned and buried. Given the peculiarities I've found, however, I'm now fairly certain they did, and we simply have no record of it," you answer, Yorri nodding along with your explanation.

"I see. Would you like my assistance on the matter? If only for the purposes of cross-referencing."

You shake your head, "I already have enough on my plate. I won't toss out the idea completely of course, but as intriguing as the knowledge is, pursuing it'll only be something I do after I'm done with what's in front of me right now."
Can you smell the sweet scent of a a fresh research project in the morning? :V
That last line makes it clear that we don't have enough to go on right now - I assume we will at least need to be fluent in Anoqeyan before exploring this further - but the possibilities... I mean, this is definitely an angle we can use to crack Durin's Consternation. Here we have Anoqeyan, the mystical language that can shape magic just by being uttered, and now we learn than runes have a clear connection to it? And in the end, our runes are a mystical script that can shape magic somehow.
If we can understand how Anoqeyan shape magic, we can understand how our runes do the same. And that's exactly what Durin's Consternation is all about.

(Note: this is essentially what we were hoping for back when the opportunity to learn Eltharin popped up, but now those hopes are validated).

EDIT:
And beyond potentially solving Runesmithing's most profound problem, this could also allow us to learn more about early Dwarven history, before the Ancestor Gods, and how the Old Ones tie to it. I am stoked for deep Dwarven lore. Soulcake, you sure know how to please your nerdy readers.
 
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[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.

[x] [Burudin:] Yes:
 
X] [Burudin:] No:
[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.
Your burudin vote is missing a [
 
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