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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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soulcake said:
[ ] [Home:] Embrace
Fine. Fine. If the idiots are choosing to be cheeky and finagle a way to stay in your home, they're going to at least pay for the privilege! It will require a good deal of work, and cost a pretty penny both in time and effort, but if it's going to be done, then it's going to be done right. Your southern colleagues may grumble and growl, but when have they not? You're over a thousand years old, they can suck on a particularly porous piece of pumice for all you care! Unlocks further options.
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soulcake said:
[ ] [Burudin:] No:
Gain Nothing/??? Heed your teacher, and decline Alric's offer to join the Burudin.
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Picking both these options will have the worst synergy. We already have Runesmiths calling themselves Snorrists. We could get away with choosing the home option if we joined the group because Snorri goes from a radical crackpot in the North to a radical crackpot who is part of an esteemed group among Runelords. I don't want to join but I can only see the offer to join as an olive branch to Snorri before other Runelords start making official accusations that he's trying splinter the Guild.
 
Plan next turn. Armor 1 action, Prod for Prods 1 action, Movement 3 actions, which enough to proc Master of the Odd and Mind for Constructs, and all 9 prods. That's 28.5 actions of progress on average for Movement plus whatever the Armor bonus is. Dear God.

Edit: oh, wait, still have to go kick Fimir ass. Goddamn it you scaly fucks! 2 action on movement for 25.5 on average. Booooo
 
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soulcake said:
It was an acknowledgement by those who were widely considered the greatest among the Runesmiths that you were worthy of standing among the;, that your work and deeds were legend on a level beyond the norm.
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I think "the;" should be them

soulcake said:
At the turn of the new year, much to your surprise, you receive a surprise package
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left off the period here

As for the votes? I prefer to find new accommodation for the students. It's our house. There's plenty of room elsewhere.

I don't see much benefit in joining the Brotherhood. As @Pempelune mentioned, it will probably reveal quite a bit of standing, but I don't think we need that too much. It would be nice to see, but eh, I can live without. It will also increase our prestige, which I don't really think we need too much either. While I have no doubt Yorri is a bit tainted by personal bias in relating to the Burudin, what he and Snorri said just makes it seem more like a political group than anything else. While interacting with them could be interesting to read, we already have the Brotherhood.

So I will be voting
[ ] [Home:] Reject
- [ ] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.

[ ] [Burudin:] No:
 
I could see an argument for joining the Burudin as a way to protect the more radical choices/actions we've already taken and will take in the future against traditionalist criticism. After all, being chosen as worthy enough to join their ranks means they must approve of our actions at least in part. To give an example, we wouldn't have to worry about the widespread proliferation of the prosthetic runes being declared as breaking the rules of the guild.

WRT the home vote, I say embrace it. Especially if we join the Burudin. Beyond the novelty of creating a micro-hold of Runesmiths, there's no better way to encourage cooperation between Runesmiths than to actually create a space for large amounts of them to live and learn side by side. It's not like we can't still have areas that are only for Snorri and his direct apprentices after all.
 
I'm leaning towards refusing the offer to join the new club.

There is a certain power that comes with being unaffiliated with a political sphere such as that. I'm also getting a feel this might have something to deal with Yori's tragic past he's hiding, so I'd trust our Master on this, even if he is probably biased. I could see such an offer something that would be used to restrain Snori and what he can do through obligations and responsibilities created by the Burudin in the first place. While we may have much to gain from joining, I don't really think it's something we need.

It seems a bit like a shortcut really, and that doesn't Mesh well with Dwarven philosphy. We have tone's of political clout as it is with all the Favor people owe us. The real problem is that this offer was probably sent as a way to prevent a Schism in Dwarven Runecrafting due to the differing philosphies.


I'm also thinking we shouldn't have people living in with us that aren't family/apprentice. We can make a place for them to stay, but there is a line with tradition that does exist for a reason. If we do end up joining the Burudin, we should Embrace, but otherwise I think it's best to clear out Snori's house a bit. At this rate we are going to have to move out of our own workshop to get some quiet in order to test things properly! :V

I'm more focused on the Finmir though, and breaking those cities of theirs before they cause problems. Well, more problems.
 
I think we should accept the offer of the Burundi, not because we are a political player (we do that accidentally, thank you very much) but to see if they are really as bad as yorri makes them out to be. Because you know what's more powerful then not joining them when offered? Joining them and the leaving if they really are as bad as yorri thinks. We have agency and iirc there's no ancient rune lord law telling us to stay.

Also ye, I want the beardlings out of our house, we gonna build them a dorm close by but your not sleeping in the goddamn classroom.
 
Redhead222 said:
also we never really been political, i get why we want the honor of joining but i do not get why we would want to join to do whatever?
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Snorri is very political, in a decidedly odd way. Anything he says or does is taken as an example by the entire runesmithing community in the Far North - all those odd actions, those deviations from the Platonic Ideal Runesmith, his focus on using runework for the maximum benefit of dwarf and hold? All inherently political.

A Runelord of his age and stature fundamentally cannot escape politics - it's part of the position. If he weren't, we'd be playing as a master runesmith instead.
 
Xepheria said:
Snorri is very political, in a decidedly odd way. Anything he says or does is taken as an example by the entire runesmithing community in the Far North - all those odd actions, those deviations from the Platonic Ideal Runesmith, his focus on using runework for the maximum benefit of dwarf and hold? All inherently political.

A Runelord of his age and stature fundamentally cannot escape politics - it's part of the position. If he weren't, we'd be playing as a master runesmith instead.
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Exactly, we do not ourselves interfere with politics (excepting if we grumble at our king to let us do something ourselves) but we are a political animal. We shape the thinking of at least one hold, and influence at least 5 others. We are the standard for hundreds of runesmiths and even the southern ones are getting influenced by our teachings. We broke through a research topic that everyone thought was unbreakable and that showed everyone that our madness had a working method. We are political, we just don't do politics.
 
Tobtorp said:
I think we should accept the offer of the Burundi, not because we are a political player (we do that accidentally, thank you very much) but to see if they are really as bad as yorri makes them out to be. Because you know what's more powerful then not joining them when offered? Joining them and the leaving if they really are as bad as yorri thinks. We have agency and iirc there's no ancient rune lord law telling us to stay.

Also ye, I want the beardlings out of our house, we gonna build them a dorm close by but your not sleeping in the goddamn classroom.
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I doubt there is an Exit Clause in whatever social and probably binding contract we would be joining

As for my personal take, I feel like we either go full Monty and go big, actually rise as a leadership position officially and open up our home, or we don't take the offer and actually not do anything, let the situation organically develop.

Outright rejection feels a bit needless outside of pride and privacy but I'm a pretty comunal kind of guy so I would embrace such a situation
 
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Acolyte said:
I am conflicted. My inner dwarf really wants me to stick with yorris guidance but i can't let the old fucks define runesmithing forever.
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results matter more, no mater how influence the burudin are, if we show up with a axe with 4 runes on it then they will shut up and grumble to themselves while we take center stage no matter what they think about us.
 
Tobtorp said:
Exactly, we do not ourselves interfere with politics (excepting if we grumble at our king to let us do something ourselves) but we are a political animal. We shape the thinking of at least one hold, and influence at least 5 others. We are the standard for hundreds of runesmiths and even the southern ones are getting influenced by our teachings. We broke through a research topic that everyone thought was unbreakable and that showed everyone that our madness had a working method. We are political, we just don't do politics.
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This is incorrect. Snorri has, on numerous occasions, moderated or changed how he goes about doing something based on political considerations with the Runesmith's Guild and the wider Karaz Ankor. He absolutely does do politics, as well as being political inherently.
 
I'm absolutely in favor of joining the Burudin.

Simply put?

We are a runelord of high standing. This isn't a question or anything. We're "The guy who returned Gromril Chain." That ALONE makes us political.

And this is also, hm... how should I put this?

If we accept, that makes us more insulated from our actions going against the grain?

We effectively will be, if we join the Burudin, getting a tacit "This is Okay" from the authority a step below Thungni. That "what we do is okay", that "We are doing a good".

That... matters. That matters a lot. It matters in a gerontocratic society more than even success.

We can work with that. And we should. And if Yorri won't tell us what's going on, then we can point out that if you don't tell us what's wrong, it's hard to judge what's actually wrong. Beyond abstracts.
 
@soulcake got some questions for you.

Can the Rune of Featherweight be applied in A Bolt Thrower or is it purely an Armor rune

When the rune of speed is applied on a Bolt thrower does in increase speed of firing rate or speed of movement?
 
I think we should accept it.

soulcake said:
The Runes you so deride exist whether we wish them to or not, and I have found a use for them that has benefitted the Karaz Ankor while you twiddle about and settle for what you have been given like a beardling who knows no better! So close-minded are you that you see this Rune and can only compare it to that which you know instead of opening your eyes and mind to the possibilities and opportunities! The type of thinking you display is a disservice to this Guild, to this Craft, and I will not stand idly by as you insult my honour and dismiss my work because you refuse to use that piece of mouldy chuf between your ears that you call a brain like any Runesmith ought to!
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This is why Snorri is a Runelord, and Yorri is not.
 
Imaninjah93 said:
I doubt there is an Exit Clause in whatever social and probably binding contract we would be joining
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Unimportant, if we openly state that we can no longer bear to be part of the Burundi then that will have massiv implications and nothing can stop us. We would not be allowed to talk about any secrets we learn but that's a given anyway.
UlseDovThur said:
Well, if do reject the offer would it even become public knowledge? I feel like Snorri and the Burudin just wouldn't talk about it if we do.
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Probably not which is why I want to join and see for ourselves. Yorri is definitely prejudices but he might not be wrong. Let's see for ourselves and make a decision from there.
Xepheria said:
This is incorrect. Snorri has, on numerous occasions, moderated or changed how he goes about doing something based on political considerations with the Runesmith's Guild and the wider Karaz Ankor. He absolutely does do politics, as well as being political inherently.
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And in numerous other occasions he has done the exact opposite if it was in the interest of dwarf kind. (the chainforger, the prostheses rune, arming an entire hold.) he only does politics if it doesn't interfere with his beliefs.

Edit: not joining the Burundi means we can not stop or influence them if it is needed. We would accept whatever their way is because we would be out of their loop.
 
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We should definitely accept it. Membership gives us leeway and probably keeps the Snorri hates in the Burudin quiet when if we open up the workshop more. It'll certainly be helpful when we finally get akazit going somewhere.
 
Tobtorp said:
Unimportant, if we openly state that we can no longer bear to be part of the Burundi then that will have massiv implications and nothing can stop us. We would not be allowed to talk about any secrets we learn but that's a given anyway.

And in numerous other occasions he has done the exact opposite if it was in the interest of dwarf kind. (the chainforger, the prostheses rune, arming an entire hold.) he only does politics if it doesn't interfere with his beliefs.
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Your first sentence is incredibly against the spirit of how Dwarf social interactions work. If I weren't already voting against joining, I would be voting against joining simply out of spite.

You speak as if his beliefs aren't the very foundation of his politics. The reason why conservative Runesmiths are politically conservative is that they believe that the Rules should be followed strictly.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Well, if do reject the offer would it even become public knowledge? I feel like Snorri and the Burudin just wouldn't talk about it if we do.
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soulcake said:

​
At the turn of the new year, much to your surprise, you receive a surprise package

It is a decently sized chest made of Wutroth and gold carried by two particularly old Longbeard messengers who tell you that it was sent on behalf of Alric Thungnisson. What draws your eye however is the symbol emblazoned upon it. For it is not the son of Thungni's personal Rune, but rather the seal of the Burudin instead. Offering a word of thanks and an order for your Retainers to bring the two elders some of your best ale, you take the chest in hand and bring it to your workshop.

Yorri, who shamelessly followed you inside, stares at it from behind you, grunts noncommittally while Karstah simply looks on curiously.
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Unless these messengers hid the chest during the entire journey to our workshop, and more importantly, we did so while going through our workshop full of Journeymen and Master Runesmiths, word will get out that we received a package from Alric Thungnisson regarding the Burudin. There's not many possibilities of what that could be about other than an offer to join them.
 
Hmm, I'd like to join the Burudin since that way it's more likely to have Yorri tell Snorri about his history. After all, just ignoring the offer will likely have him stay silent on the subject, whereas joining might provoke him to talk more about things, if only to grumble about Snorri's decision.
Also, I believe that several of the Burudin are also members of the Brotherhood of Dron, so it might give us more options to collaborate with them.
ArchAIngel said:
That... matters. That matters a lot. It matters in a gerontocratic society more than even success.
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That's a very good point. And with Snorri getting more friendly with elves, it isn't some weird Runelord doing it, it's a member of the Burudin doing that, much more likely to get people's attention and maybe emulate it. Not that Runelords are unimportant, but it's a much bigger hammer to the face this way.
 
MrHobbit said:
Your first sentence is incredibly against the spirit of how Dwarf social interactions work. If I weren't already voting against joining, I would be voting against joining simply out of spite.

You speak as if his beliefs aren't the very foundation of his politics. The reason why conservative Runesmiths are politically conservative is that they believe that the Rules should be followed strictly.
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And snorri has broken several of these rules. We are not a conservative runesmith, the only authority we follow is thungni himself and he hasn't told us to shut up yet. And I really doubt that there is a clause of "you can not leave once you join." the rule that's probably in place is "you can not talk about what is said about Burundi activity." and snorri will hold to that. But just openly going, "I no longer want to be part of the Burundi." is very likely not forbidden.

Also if you vote because of what others opinion is then I don't really care what you vote for.
 
Xepheria said:
Snorri is very political, in a decidedly odd way. Anything he says or does is taken as an example by the entire runesmithing community in the Far North - all those odd actions, those deviations from the Platonic Ideal Runesmith, his focus on using runework for the maximum benefit of dwarf and hold? All inherently political.

A Runelord of his age and stature fundamentally cannot escape politics - it's part of the position. If he weren't, we'd be playing as a master runesmith instead.
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And he's done all of his politics through sheer stubbornness. I think not joining the Burudin would fit Snorri's style quite well. He's got his own oddball style and has gone this far by forging his own path. I don't want to change that just to join the cool kid's club. Snorri could make his own Runesmith group at this point if he really needed one, anyways. And he arguably doesn't need to do that, either.
 
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yeah I am getting swayed towards joining the Burudin. but the second they start cutting into our AP point we start cutting them off at the knees :V

be famous enough that the Burudin petition to join Snorri instead of the other way around :V
 
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