RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[tri2]

What we need is a golem capable of facing greater demons so we do not need to, and to give it a ability to wipe out cannon fodder quickly

 

[Copperscale]

My idea was that for a slightly larger than dwarf golem we could make is entirely out of our Adamantine, as opposed to plating it.

Soulcake already said we can equip the golem separately, which also becomes easier to do on a smaller scale.

From a practicality/economical standpoint, i don't think we should make it much bigger than Ogre sized.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

I don't think we'll ever become an apprentice of Thungni. We are about to be hit by the incursion, which most likely means there's no real time to learn from Thungni and then iirc the ancestor gods all disappear nearly immediately after it ends.

Click to shrink...

I don't think we will either, but is there a timeline for how long it all takes? I'm vaguely remembering when it first starts the dwarves all hole up for quite a while, and then there's a pretty long period of back and forth campaigning afterwards.

 

[Karnax626]

He's pulled between two things. And he tries to square that circle by... working as productively as possible in sequence. It's not the worst way to do things, I suppose...

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I mean, his traits incentivise focusing primarily on one thing a turn, so that gets carried across to the Turns. IMO that's not a bad thing, and frankly at least he tries to strike a balance between personal projects and Hold duties.

No. That's not what I said. This isn't about selfishness. This is about thinking you know better about what's good for the hold/the dwarves in general than the king does. Maybe you do. Maybe you, as a runelord, are right to disregard his requests and do what you think is best.

That's still a decision that informs your character. It's just one about confidence/surety in your own judgement as opposed to your liege's, or stretching it a bit, about a solo effort to research something rather than a broader cmmunal project someone else initiated.

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I will point out that at no point has King Otrek asked for our specific help with the Underway. If anything, when we asked for his aid with corraling the other Runesmiths for runing weaponry he and the council explicitly called out that they trusted his (and by some extension our) judgement when it comes to deciding what project to work on.

It's not about whether we know better than Otrek on what's good for the Hold, it's about whether we know better than him what we can do with our time, which in this case is completing the current link in the Rune Metal chain.

And the fact that Snorri supported Expanding internationally is frankly irrelevant, as just because he/we thinks that's the better path for the Hold to take, doesn't mean he's obligated to put actions into it to help it succeed.

 

[Alratan]

Spoiler

Wait a minute. What are we supposed to do with that? You cant resmith or add Runes to Adamant after you've made it right? So is it just a proof of concept or can we actually still smith it into something?

Also a bit sad there isnt a third epic deed. Means we didntbfind something else insane did we? Sad.

Got a question.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

I was thinking of how to resolve this, and I think I've thought of a solution, one that could possibly apply to Laihtero as well. Lots of metal tools and weapons were made from multiple different kinds of steel forged together. Usually a more brittle higher carbon steel that was used for the edge or striking surface, and a softer lower carbon steel for the core. We could so the same here, fusing an adamant edge to an axe or striking surface to a hammer with the rest of the head made of mithril grade gromril that we can then engrave runes on.

This wouldn't work for things like the rune of cleaving that effect the striking surface/edge, but could well work for things like the Rune of Fire or Fury. This would also make our adamant go a lot further.

 

[Garlak]

It will provide us with choice between 4 and 1, 3 and 2, all in 5 action set ups and such like what you described with 2 on requests and 3 on research or exploring.

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That, alone, would be wonderful and I'd love to see that! Looking back on things... I think it's more about this sort of flexibility (described above) more than with the "being able to knock out actions" thing.

It's been feeling like we've got mechanics, but we can't really play with them very well; and 5 actions would be the sweet spot.

So I want more actions so we can play around with the mechanics, and have more freedom in how we do things, and all. And not necessarily to clear out all the backlog.

Though, on the topic of backlog... I'm not sure I agree.

Which as I said personally isn't much of an issue to me because I do not feel like we are in a crunch because our actions actually meaningfully reduce the Amount of Stuff We Have To Do unlike many other quests so even if we are in a situation where we have a lot of stuff to do and are crunched we will eventually move to a situation where we have less to do

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure we just added more stuff over time. And those 8-action researches are daunting. (Let alone the 16-action Master Rune... more on that below though.) And we can pick up more of them from exploring, so who knows.

But we'll see, I guess. This turn has us finishing the Gromril research chain.

And if knocking out the Gromril research chain finally finishes it for good (rather than just revealing yet more Gromril and Adamant research to dig into), then I'll feel like we've made progress on the tons of stuff and have actually knocked some things out.


Anyway, on to master Runes... Because meanwhile, the "Understand a Master Rune" is a whole category all its own and it's not getting any focus at all. It's not just a single action; that's a bit deceiving-looking. Because it's about any and every Master Rune. So our list of Possible-To-Do-List is actually quite big.

Also, yet another issue is that... it doesn't look as interesting. Hrm no, perhaps not quite right... It doesn't have an immediate questhook-like feeling? Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Like. The Gromril chain? That one looked interesting. The action looked appealing and attractive, and so we were able to spend time on it. But the Master Rune thing though? Hoo boy. It's too open-ended, and too needs-a-write-in and customizationable. And we have no idea where we would be going with it, even if we picked a Master Rune. In short: I really wish we had more guidance, or incentives, in the form of mechanics -- or fluff! -- here.

Make it look more like a quest hook. Or give it far more clarity and paths-to-go. ((Currently, it feels like a "make a write-in and then throw actions into the 16-action-abyss there. Brrr.))

I will be honest though and say the 1 Free Category action doesn't fire me up very much for a couple of reasons: First, its more bookkeeping, and part of the elegance of this quest's system is its utter lack of complexity.

Click to shrink...

Yeah on second thought, this sorta sounds right. It would feel more... clunky? Ah, no; vestigial. It'd feel vestigial. I mean... the feel I was going for was feeling like... "you are a craftsman, and make something concrete every turn", and it'd be a "what do you want to make" section. But the way you said it, it felt more... yeah. Frankly I think it might be handled more by giving another descriptor or something, that... hmmm.

The write-in (and Master Rune) options need to be improved, somehow... That's what it feels like. Hmmm...

 

[fictionfan]

Spoiler

Wait a minute. What are we supposed to do with that? You cant resmith or add Runes to Adamant after you've made it right? So is it just a proof of concept or can we actually still smith it into something?

Also a bit sad there isnt a third epic deed. Means we didntbfind something else insane did we? Sad.

Got a question.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

Well it is not a paper weight it still should be able to protect someone from magic even if it isn't a very useful weapon.

 

[Abhishekam]

Spoiler

I was thinking of how to resolve this, and I think I've thought of a solution, one that could possibly apply to Laihtero as well. Lots of metal tools and weapons were made from multiple different kinds of steel forged together. Usually a more brittle higher carbon steel that was used for the edge or striking surface, and a softer lower carbon steel for the core. We could so the same here, fusing an adamant edge to an axe or striking surface to a hammer with the rest of the head made of mithril grade gromril that we can then engrave runes on.

This wouldn't work for things like the rune of cleaving that effect the striking surface/edge, but could well work for things like the Rune of Fire or Fury. This would also make our adamant go a lot further.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

I just figured we could still use it. Like its quasi Adamant. Still forgettable into the final tuned permanent unalterable shape. Kinda like having a semi finished mold or regular metal bar to make something with.

Well I could be wrong.

 

[SurpriseMe]

the whole point is to make an impressive legendary mythical tier 5 master piece to attract Thungni s attention and become one of his students ,hence why it has to be huge at least that is why I am all for a Titanic golem

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I think for a T5, size very much matters not. Take a look at two T5 items-Ghal Maraz and the Widowmaker. Both of them are weapons that can be wielded in one's hands. Making something big makes no difference to the tier, only the quality of the work.

 

[Garlak]

Edit: Also, i don't think anyone has considered it yet in the golem discussion... but what if instead of a Titanic golem, we forged a dwarf sized golem?

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Assuming the heart gets made into a golem, I would much rather have it be small enough to easily fit inside the hold in the event of a siege. That still leaves a lot of room to make it bigger than dwarf sized, but an outright Colossus of Rhodes style supergiant isn't the way to go imo.

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A Colossus of Rhodes is also impractical if you want to hew to the suggestion I made when proposing a possible Golem format, of cladding it in Pure Gromril or Adamant. Doing so radically, hilariously, increases the cost and thus sharply limits the size to far below supergiant scales.

Which is fine with me because we'd probably still be able to make it Big, on the scale of like a good six or so meters tall or something and that's still really big for a golem.

Click to shrink...

Actually, I've had that same thought yesterday or so: "Wait... what if we made it Dwarf sized instead? Hmm..." As part of the whole deal of musing over the "Brotherhood? Stone? Hmmm..." thing I was also going over.

i.e. Maybe there's more weight or narrative (or just interesting results/outcomes) from making it Dwarf-sized.

... Of course, it feels like running the risk of not being as impressive and useful as a GIANT DEATH ROBOT... ... then again, maybe such a golem could be an assistant in the workshop or the Forge or the Hold instead! (Santa memes, ho!) A Dwarf-sized golem would be able to go and do things a GIANT DEATH ROBOT could not.

But still. That Giant Robot tho'. Hmmm...

 

[Thomasfoolery]

So I want more actions so we can play around with the mechanics, and have more freedom in how we do things, and all. And not necessarily to clear out all the backlog.

Click to shrink...

I feel like this is exactly the point of the apprentices. They are a commitment, they reduce your flexibility and freedom. Are they worth teaching even so? That's something the Runesmith has to decide for himself. So your issue to me is pretty much a case of 'working as intended'

I really wish we had more guidance, or incentives, in the form of mechanics -- or fluff! -- here.

Click to shrink...

In this case I personally felt that action was in the case that we had some rune combo we strongly wanted to pursue that needed a new MR. Not so much just for learning new ones for the sake of it.

 

[Alratan]

Actually, I've had that same thought yesterday or so: "Wait... what if we made it Dwarf sized instead? Hmm..." As part of the whole deal of musing over the "Brotherhood? Stone? Hmmm..." thing I was also going over.

i.e. Maybe there's more weight or narrative (or just interesting results/outcomes) from making it Dwarf-sized.

... Of course, it feels like running the risk of not being as impressive and useful as a GIANT DEATH ROBOT... ... then again, maybe such a golem could be an assistant in the workshop or the Forge or the Hold instead! (Santa memes, ho!) A Dwarf-sized golem would be able to go and do things a GIANT DEATH ROBOT could not.

But still. That Giant Robot tho'. Hmmm...

Click to shrink...

I'm sure this isn't possible, but something like a T-1000 golem would be pretty amazing. It wouldn't need the disguise ability, but something that could flow through confined locations and shape weapons from its body could be very handy.

 

[fictionfan]

A invincible golem doesn't need to be big. In fact it is better for it to be fast. Send it against an army and it will take it down eventually.

 

[tri2]

just big enough to deal with greater demon level enemies

 

[bird yells]

I'm not really interested in the idea of "them being talented means they'll stick together" because that relies on the vagaries of personality which are bluntly, independent of talent. If we pick an apprentice who's an abrasive loner and they aren't that talented, and if we pick an apprentice who is an abrasive loner and they are talented, then in either case our other apprentices would have a tougher time connecting to such a person.

Best in my mind to get as good as we can get as often as we can, and to try for pairs or triplets. Specifically by training apprentices in pairs for example that means that even if a pair of apprentices might fail to connect to the wider group of apprentices descended from us, they have each other as possible social contacts. Or one of the pair can make a connection to the wider group and then pull the other along with them and so on and so forth in that fuzzy social dynamic of making friends. Same applies to triplets.

Click to shrink...

Given the way dwarf social dynamics have been portrayed, I think it would take more than just increasing the average class size to nudge different cohorts of apprentices into sticking together in a trained-by-Snorri community. There's just such a huge focus on seniority; even in Snerra's case her seniors were pretty standoffish initially, even though Snerra's both a genius and the nicest dwarf you'll ever meet, and the social barriers would presumably be still greater if the people involved never even worked under the same roof. To my mind, Snorri's previous apprentices who are now masters would not naturally gravitate towards making friends with much younger dwarfs like Fjolla and Dolgi just because they trained under the same teacher. Similarly, if Yorri's newest stundent were to come visiting on his journey right now, I wouldn't expect Snorri to treat him much differently than he would any other journeyman runesmith.

That's not to say the general idea of getting the apprentices together is unworkable but I feel like there's a vital ingredient missing, you know? Like how Snorri got the younger smiths talking with each other during that one joint project and some informal associations still stuck around after it was finished - you'd want some kind of additional nudge over and above the fact that all those smiths once apprenticed under Snorri.

 

[tri2]

so guys wanna try making like 6 dwarf sized golems with all of them having brotherhood runes? see if we can't make Geth?

 

[Enthusiast#117]

So, not having a lot to contribute to the discussion at hand, I'm going to compile a list of potential combos that have been mentioned but we have yet to try out. If I miss any that you want me to add, let me know.

Melee weapons:
Master Rune of Breaking, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Daemon Slaying
Break the magic that makes up a Daemon.

Ranged weapons:
Rune of Penetration, Rune of Burning, Rune of Impact
Fire armor-piercing, explosive ammunition.

Warmachines:
Rune of Forging, Rune of Reloading, Rune of Speed
A perfect machine firing as quickly as possible.

Golems:
Master Rune of Awakening, Rune of Brotherhood, Rune of Stone
A golem that uses the skills of its allies.

Master Rune of Awakening, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Preservation
A golem to perservere through the ages.

Armor:
Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Spelleating, Rune of Fortitude
Making and reinforcing Order out of Chaos.

Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Impact, Rune of Daemon Slaying
Act as an anti-daemon wreaking ball.

Rune of Stone, Rune of Impact, Rune of Fortitude
Strike like an Avalanche

Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Impact, Rune of Fortitude
Mirror the comet thematics of Trollslayer

Banners:
Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grungni, Rune of Spellbreaking
Invoking two ancestor gods and the rune they made together.

Master Rune of Taunting, Rune of Battle, Rune of Shielding
Fool the enemy into striking where you are strongest.

Rune of Speed, Rune of Might, Rune of Impact
Marching to war with the inexorable momentum of a meteor in flight.

Talismans:
Master Rune of Spite, Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Spelleating
Break the spell, eat the spell, use the power to strike back.

Master Rune of Dismay, Rune of Amplification, Rune of Spellbreaking
A warhorn that demoralizes the enemy when sounded, specifically spellcasters

 

[BungieONI]

I'm pretty sure we just added more stuff over time. And those 8-action researches are daunting. (Let alone the 16-action Master Rune... more on that below though.) And we can pick up more of them from exploring, so who knows.

Click to shrink...

We actively haven't though in absolute "how many actions are in the category" terms? Like, seriously we haven't. The Requests sheet only has stuff in it at all aside from the Underway because I made write in's for it, and that's my point. On Turn 11 we didn't even have anything besides write ins and Apprentice work that doesn't take Snorri actions. We can actually meaningfully reduce a category to nothing, and already have aside from our personal ideas. You can't do that in DL or basically anywhere else.

Flexibility only means as much as the space we have to play in and thus be flexible in. That is the benefit of being able to clean out a category, because once we clean out a category, the only things we can pick are research or stuff we come up with.

Anyway, on to master Runes... Because meanwhile, the "Understand a Master Rune" is a whole category all its own and it's not getting any focus at all. It's not just a single action; that's a bit deceiving-looking. Because it's about any and every Master Rune. So our list of Possible-To-Do-List is actually quite big.

Also, yet another issue is that... it doesn't look as interesting. Hrm no, perhaps not quite right... It doesn't have an immediate questhook-like feeling? Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Like. The Gromril chain? That one looked interesting. The action looked appealing and attractive, and so we were able to spend time on it. But the Master Rune thing though? Hoo boy. It's too open-ended, and too needs-a-write-in and customizationable. And we have no idea where we would be going with it, even if we picked a Master Rune. In short: I really wish we had more guidance, or incentives, in the form of mechanics -- or fluff! -- here.

Make it look more like a quest hook. Or give it far more clarity and paths-to-go. ((Currently, it feels like a "make a write-in and then throw actions into the 16-action-abyss there. Brrr.))

Click to shrink...

Its the "If you want to take a Master Rune of one Rune Category and put it in another Rune Category" action. Like, if we wanted to adapt the Master Rune of Conduction into an Engineering Rune, we'd use that action. The stuff that needs writing in is the Master Rune specifically and what we want to adapt it to.

And also this whole idea of not making progress on the Gromril chain? I don't understand it because I can point directly at Mind of Metal and its bonuses as a sign of progress. Also what we achieved in the Spoilers flying around. I've seen this idea come up before, that we're just spinning our wheels in the research tree and I'm like "what? No research just takes a while!" and that's good! It means we're not blitzing up the tech tree like most other quests with research in them have problems with.

The write-in (and Master Rune) options need to be improved, somehow... That's what it feels like. Hmmm...

Click to shrink...

And for this, the sort of point of Write ins, especially for stuff like Requests? Its for us to go "Ahah! Snorri is struck by An Idea!" and then do the Idea. They're for personal ideas that spring directly from Snorri and his observations and opinions instead of an outside source. And as they stand I think they convey that adequately.

 

[mmgaballah]

the reason I think a massive golem would be best
1)greater demons
2)giants , specifically the massive bone grinder kind
3)emperor dragons
4)Kholek Suneater
5) Krakanrok The Black one of the single biggest beings in the warhammer fantasy setting (being the size of mountain chain while laying down asleep)

 

[Garlak]

I think some of this thinking about apprentices and Runesmiths and learning and spreading knowledge and all...

... Is very much meta-knowledge driven.

Not saying that in order to scold people for using meta-knowledge though. But rather... I think when the topic comes up (like right now) that people start thinking and talking about "confronting" and "solving" a problem that is 5,000 years and a post-apocalyptic future away.

In other words... It's possible that the problem just does not exist yet. That there isn't anything to solve. And furthermore even... that it's not reasonable/realistic for a Dwarf in the current era, to be thinking in that way and trying to solve it.

I think we need to start thinking like Ancestors Era Dwarfs, and Golden Age Era Dwarfs.

We're talking about preserving knowledge and not losing out on things, but... this is the mythical time of the Ancestors. We should be thinking about advancing the frontiers of runic knowledge. Of making great works and artifacts. Of training great apprentices. Of slaying great beasties, or perhaps even founding new holds. (Well maybe not that last two because Runelord, and because already-new-hold, but. That's the sort of thing modern Dwarfs are concerned with.) Once the Underway catches up with all of the Holds anyway.


Not only will this be a far more fun way to take (less stress, worry, and fear! more excitement and fun as we dive fully into mystery!), I feel that the accuracy of thinking-like-a-present-era-Dwarf will mean having a better grasp on the situation and thus a better understanding of the world we're in. And how to move forward in it.

 

[Alratan]

Talismans:

Click to shrink...

I was thinking of something to try to help with the dwarves lack of strategic speed. Something like a talisman with the Master Rune of Passage, Strollaz's Rune, and, if possible, the Rune of Impact, as that also grants momentum.

 

[Ferdiad]

I think some of this thinking about apprentices and Runesmiths and learning and spreading knowledge and all...

... Is very much meta-knowledge driven.

Not saying that in order to scold people for using meta-knowledge though. But rather... I think when the topic comes up (like right now) that people start thinking and talking about "confronting" and "solving" a problem that is 5,000 years and a post-apocalyptic future away.

In other words... It's possible that the problem just does not exist yet. That there isn't anything to solve. And furthermore even... that it's not reasonable/realistic for a Dwarf in the current era, to be thinking in that way and trying to solve it.

I think we need to start thinking like Ancestors Era Dwarfs, and Golden Age Era Dwarfs.

We're talking about preserving knowledge and not losing out on things, but... this is the mythical time of the Ancestors. We should be thinking about advancing the frontiers of runic knowledge. Of making great works and artifacts. Of training great apprentices. Of slaying great beasties, or perhaps even founding new holds. (Well maybe not that last two because Runelord, and because already-new-hold, but. That's the sort of thing modern Dwarfs are concerned with.) Once the Underway catches up with all of the Holds anyway.


Not only will this be a far more fun way to take (less stress, worry, and fear! more excitement and fun as we dive fully into mystery!), I feel that the accuracy of thinking-like-a-present-era-Dwarf will mean having a better grasp on the situation and thus a better understanding of the world we're in. And how to move forward in it.

Click to shrink...

Yeah but we know the time of Woes will come, it probably won't happen to the extent because of Grungi fortifying the underway but the Slann shifting the continent is still going to massively fuck things up after the presumably war of the beard happens(don't see us changing that). So it's natural for people not want to see their legacy be fruitless.

 

[BungieONI]

Given the way dwarf social dynamics have been portrayed, I think it would take more than just increasing the average class size to nudge different cohorts of apprentices into sticking together in a trained-by-Snorri community. There's just such a huge focus on seniority; even in Snerra's case her seniors were pretty standoffish initially, even though Snerra's both a genius and the nicest dwarf you'll ever meet, and the social barriers would presumably be still greater if the people involved never even worked under the same roof. To my mind, Snorri's previous apprentices who are now masters would not naturally gravitate towards making friends with much younger dwarfs like Fjolla and Dolgi just because they trained under the same teacher. Similarly, if Yorri's newest stundent were to come visiting on his journey right now, I wouldn't expect Snorri to treat him much differently than he would any other journeyman runesmith.

That's not to say the general idea of getting the apprentices together is unworkable but I feel like there's a vital ingredient missing, you know? Like how Snorri got the younger smiths talking with each other during that one joint project and some informal associations still stuck around after it was finished - you'd want some kind of additional nudge over and above the fact that all those smiths once apprenticed under Snorri.

Click to shrink...

Hmm, maybe! You are right in that there's a sort of traditional "don't give the beardling praise" standoffishness going on with any set of apprentices interacting with younger ones.

So this ties into my thoughts of runesmith society and cultural evolution as a general thing for dwarfs. You can't push it. You also don't need to because dwarfs have long memories. Every runesmith in Kraka Drakk will remember that one time they all sort of got together to do stuff on the behest of Snorri for a long time, even if its just story/joke fodder. That kind of thing builds up culture, in the vein of the culture of shared experiences. Which is where it crosses over with being a student of Snorri.

When it's laid out like that, the obvious thing is to hope that our apprentices come back as Journeymen ready to become Masters who then stick around in the area of Kraka Drakk or the Far North if they don't want to hang out in Kraka Drakk as masters. That way they can stay basically in range of that idea of "every runesmith once doing something" that they'll then have something to joke about. It's not a lot, but sometimes its all you need and there's not much else we can do besides raise a lot of apprentices, maybe occasionally poke the other Kraka Drakk runesmiths to do a collaboration, and hope.

so guys wanna try making like 6 dwarf sized golems with all of them having brotherhood runes? see if we can't make Geth?

Click to shrink...

Given the Rune of Brotherhood was specifically nerfed to avoid those shenanigans, no I don't.

My idea was that for a slightly larger than dwarf golem we could make is entirely out of our Adamantine, as opposed to plating it.

Soulcake already said we can equip the golem separately, which also becomes easier to do on a smaller scale.

From a practicality/economical standpoint, i don't think we should make it much bigger than Ogre sized.

Click to shrink...

I'm extremely uncertain making it entirely out of Adamant is practical even for a rich hold. That's several tons of the stuff.

Spoiler: about adamant

We will know more about the limits of Adamant production specifically after the update lands.

Making it entirely out of Pure Gromril is potentially plausible, ala in the same ballpark of material weight as what went on the gates, but it'd be tricky still. I like the idea of making it out of pure Adamant or Pure Gromril entirely but I'm expecting that to not be possible so I proposed it with the idea of rock taken from Kraka Drakk's heart and plating in Adamant.

Now Pure Gromril core body and Adamant plating might be more plausible than making it out of Adamant entirely.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

Ancestor era dwarves set the trends of their times so to be honest anything we do will become tradition if we do it for long enough. I also sort of disagree with you about our primary mission being advancing the frontiers of runic knowledge our primary mission is what ever we want to do, and whilst that's obviously hugely important preserving the knowledge you gain so it isn't lost? I think that is also likewise very important.

I would also say that we're not playing the fully traditional lock yourself in a workshop and study style of rune smith, not with traits like productivity like no other. I would say Snorri cares much more about actually having his work in use than the typical rune smith would.

There's no point pulling the curtains back on the void of knowledge only for it to be lost afterwards.

I was thinking of something to try to help with the dwarves lack of strategic speed. Something like a talisman with the Master Rune of Passage, Strollaz's Rune, and, if possible, the Rune of Impact, as that also grants momentum.

Click to shrink...

I kind of want to work on creating a runic teleportation gate buut I admit that'd be highly unlikely. Still technically anything that can be done with magic can be done with runes so it shouldn't impossible.

 

[BungieONI]

I think some of this thinking about apprentices and Runesmiths and learning and spreading knowledge and all...

... Is very much meta-knowledge driven.

Not saying that in order to scold people for using meta-knowledge though. But rather... I think when the topic comes up (like right now) that people start thinking and talking about "confronting" and "solving" a problem that is 5,000 years and a post-apocalyptic future away.

In other words... It's possible that the problem just does not exist yet. That there isn't anything to solve. And furthermore even... that it's not reasonable/realistic for a Dwarf in the current era, to be thinking in that way and trying to solve it.

I think we need to start thinking like Ancestors Era Dwarfs, and Golden Age Era Dwarfs.

We're talking about preserving knowledge and not losing out on things, but... this is the mythical time of the Ancestors. We should be thinking about advancing the frontiers of runic knowledge. Of making great works and artifacts. Of training great apprentices. Of slaying great beasties, or perhaps even founding new holds. (Well maybe not that last two because Runelord, and because already-new-hold, but. That's the sort of thing modern Dwarfs are concerned with.) Once the Underway catches up with all of the Holds anyway.


Not only will this be a far more fun way to take (less stress, worry, and fear! more excitement and fun as we dive fully into mystery!), I feel that the accuracy of thinking-like-a-present-era-Dwarf will mean having a better grasp on the situation and thus a better understanding of the world we're in. And how to move forward in it.

Click to shrink...

It isn't a problem right now. Golden Age dwarfs aren't really worried about losing them and having their knowledge permanently lost beyond the "They die Journeying" or the "They stop striving to learn" issues Snorri has mentioned in his thoughts. I've known this because its been spelled out.

You know why I like apprentices? Because their honestly freakin cute to watch. Passing on the knowledge is just nice.

But when you come at it with a "But it's meta-knowledge to be doing it and we should be thinking like a Golden Age dwarf!" that implies taking less of them. Which, you know. Obvious problem here.