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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I think the point wasn't that anyone would be making clothing out of fine thin gromril cloth as any kind of new standard. But that such a material could be used as highlights or accents on a more normal set of clothing, to flex the wearers wealth and importance much in the same way we might seen a celebrity use an evening gown with inlaid diamonds or a suit with integrated tiny gold plates/flakes. To draw the eye, to accentuate the colours of the cloth, to form patterns or highlights, and be an implicit statement that "I'm rich enough to wear a million dollars worth of diamonds as part of my dress" (or in our case, "I'm rich and well connected enough to know someone who can get me Ancestor God level of crafting feat material for my clothing".
 
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just realized we forgot a very important part of standardization to our hearthguard kit. They all need to be equipped with two pouch bags. one full of small toys, and another with stonebread. To feed and entertain the younglings and to help reduce our toy storage :V
 
tri2 said:
just realized we forgot a very important part of standardization to our hearthguard kit. They all need to be equipped with two pouch bags. one full of small toys, and another with stonebread. To feed and entertain the younglings and to help reduce our toy storage :V
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It would give away where the toys are coming from. Not that it's hard to guess, but still...
 
IronFist said:
For a more grounded idea, see Karstah's segments where she has to balance her budget, and comes to realize how much she would owe Snorri if he charged her tuition.
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I actually was a bit surprised when Karstah seemed to have so much money issues on her Journeyman outing compared to Dolgi, Fjolla, and Snerra's Journeyman Outings where money and contacts weren't a problem but then I recalled that those three had rather exception to great rolls whereas Karstah and Nain seemed to trend pretty low.

Another thing that occurred to me is that I suppose that Jorri Klausson is a pretty wealthy and well-connected Dawi merchant given he even trades in Oathgold and Drakk's Blood, even suffering a few setbacks like losing caravans due to hazards and such and remain able to recover. But how does all the wealth Jorri has accumulated over the years even compare to Snorri's income. I'm wondering if Snorri actually even outearns his entire Clan Winterhearth as an Elder Runelord of his skill and experience. No wonder Clan Winterhearth was so excited at finding young potential Runesmiths if Snorri is an example of the amount of wealth they earn.


DiceOfStupidity said:
It would give away where the toys are coming from. Not that it's hard to guess, but still...
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Maybe Snorri can get Jorri to sell his excess toys on the side given his various merchant contacts? :p
 
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fictionfan said:
Selling them bah, they are just idle work. If Snorri sold them then he would be putting his reputation on the line with each toy and it stops being a fun hobby and just his job.
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I'm 100% sure Snorri treats his reputation as being on the stake in everything he makes, be it the humblest toy or the loftiest commission for the Ancestor Cults or the Dawi or Brana royalty.
 
Kieron said:
Hopefully, this doesn't end up backfiring and Snorri being called a Heretic for trying to surpass the Ancestor Gods due to his own Arrogance in his Abilities or something equally dire.

BTW, as a layman to WHF...can someone explain to me why being able to make Gromril Chain armour such a significant issue aside from the fact that only an Ancestor God was able to do it?

While Gromril chain armour is better than even the best steel armour, don't they already have superior Gromril plate armour? I suppose Gromril Chain armour is more comfortable to wear casually over the long term as well as supplement Gromil plate at the vulnerable joints and flexible parts. And that Gromril chain can be used for a stronger chain link than steel links for a variety of uses...
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It's because Gromril Plate still uses steel Chainmail as an under layer of armor to protect gaps in the plate in areas like the joints. Without it Gromril plate armor wouldn't be anymore durable in the natural weak points between the plates than regular plate armor, barring the use of Runes of course. With it it makes armor far less vulnerable to an enemy going for a precise attack on previously mentioned weak points as it can make use of Gromrils durability for the entirety of the armor.

So, on a practical level, it's a decided boost to the quality of armor that can be made

In addition it is impressive because, up until now, no one besides Grungni, the head Ancestor God, has been able to create genuinely finely made Chainmail out of Gromril. Not even his sons Smednir, Ancestor God of Smithing and Metalworking, and Thungni, Ancestor God of Runesmiths, have managed it, at least to anyone's knowledge. They may have and simply never mentioned for some reason but there's no way to really know for sure.
 
fictionfan said:
Selling them bah, they are just idle work. If Snorri sold them then he would be putting his reputation on the line with each toy and it stops being a fun hobby and just his job.
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Hmm...point.

Well, maybe not 'sell' but how is he ever going to gift those all those toys out to all Good Dawi Children once Moira finally puts her foot down? Maybe it'll become a Hearthguard job to find ways to distribute those toys in the course of their duties. I'd love to see an omake as to their reaction to their new additional dutiy as Snorri's Hearthguard. Sneaking and leaving toys for Dawi Children whereever they go?

Well, if Snorri is desperate for a toy outlet, maybe he can start making toys for Brana children as well...
 
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Kieron said:
Hmm...point.

Well, maybe not 'sell' but how is he ever going to gift those all those toys out to all Good Dawi Children once Moira finally puts her foot down? Maybe it'll become a Hearthguard job to find ways to distribute those toys in the course of their duties. I'd love to see an omake as to their reaction to their new additional dutiy as Snorri's Hearthguard. Sneaking and leaving toys for Dawi Children whereever they go?

Well, if Snorri is desperate for a toy outlet, maybe he can start making toys for Brana children as well...
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exactly the idea I was going for, Snorri making toys for his hearthguard to gift to children they meet along the way without one
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
What does gromil chain require again?
Super hot temperatures and superheavy unceasing labor?

Could the engineers guild make a non runic version of the chainforger?
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Maybe in a few hundred or thousands of years of applied research and the machine might be the size of an entire smelter complex and use up a ton of valuable resources? I suspect it might as well be High Science Fiction Technology levels by then...

It's not like the Dawi exactly have High Energy Physics and Material Research Scientists. And they don't exactly do coordinated group research very often or much.

A ton of practical Engineers, though.
 
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Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Don't we call those mages and runesmiths? :lol:
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Well, Dawi have no mages unless you're a filthy Chaos Dwarf...and as for Runesmiths/Runelords...Runes are a Gift and Art from Thungi. I dare you to find a Runesmith/Lord to solve a problem or craft a high-level item that doesn't involve RUNES somewhere during the process or in the end result. :p

Engineers can make things work without needing Runes as a vital component. Runesmiths can't do anything/don't want to do anything significant in their crafting works without Runes, obviously.
 
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Kieron said:
I actually was a bit surprised when Karstah seemed to have so much money issues on her Journeyman outing compared to Dolgi, Fjolla, and Snerra's Journeyman Outings where money and contacts weren't a problem but then I recalled that those three had rather exception to great rolls whereas Karstah and Nain seemed to trend pretty low.
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Dolgi certainly had some sections where he was struggling to get commissions. I think that soulcake just did fewer pov's of theirs during their journeymanning which makes it look like the second wave of apprentices has it worse because we see comparatively more of their troubles than we did of the first groups.
If we're looking for a reason that Karstah specifically was struggling more then I'd point to the fact that since she's trying to mimic Snorri's productivity probably means she's using much more material.
UlseDovThur said:
It's because Gromril Plate still uses steel Chainmail as an under layer of armor to protect gaps in the plate in areas like the joints. Without it Gromril plate armor wouldn't be anymore durable in the natural weak points between the plates than regular plate armor, barring the use of Runes of course. With it it makes armor far less vulnerable to an enemy going for a precise attack on previously mentioned weak points as it can make use of Gromrils durability for the entirety of the armor.

So, on a practical level, it's a decided boost to the quality of armor that can be made
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just gotta point out, Kieron knew this:
Kieron said:
as well as supplement Gromil plate at the vulnerable joints and flexible parts
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Its the cultural achievement.
A minority of dwarves can afford Gromril, a tiny fraction of those will be able to get Gromril maile. Perhaps over the coming centuries it'll diffuse and become more common, however thats in the extreme future when enough chainmakers exist. Until then a minor/moderate improvement in the defensiveness of the joints of a tiny percentage of dwarves who are already sporting runic armour isn't a big deal.

On the other hand as a culture that idolises their predecessors and seems to constantly fall short of their standards, the sign that for once, the dwarves have lived up to their ancestors expectations is a massive moment.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
What does gromil chain require again?
Super hot temperatures and superheavy unceasing labor?

Could the engineers guild make a non runic version of the chainforger?
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Also either something stronge than gromril like adamant or a rune to temporarily weaken the gromril being made into chain. The engineers guild don't have access to either and aren't likely to get it any time soon.
 
I believe the best case scenario for the final Chainforger is them being akin to the Pure Gromril smelters we made for the hold foundry: The 'mundane' parts are made by other experts, then a Runesmith comes in to carve in the needed runes, and once done no further specialist knowledge is needed (beyond standard metalsmithing/smelting/whatever Guild training in the relevant metallurgy and device operation).

At least so far, everything we know about gromril and it's strenght, seems to imply even attempting to work it into a chain via purely mundane tools would be a fool's errand or take an ungodly amount of time (think hammering a single bar by hand for decades if not centuries on end, possibly eroding multiple sets of tools in so doing). Even with the Chainforger, I believe we needed amulets of strenght to pull the gromril into wire through the tool.
 
SakSak said:
I believe the best case scenario for the final Chainforger is them being akin to the Pure Gromril smelters we made for the hold foundry: The 'mundane' parts are made by other experts, then a Runesmith comes in to carve in the needed runes, and once done no further specialist knowledge is needed (beyond standard metalsmithing/smelting/whatever Guild training in the relevant metallurgy and device operation).

At least so far, everything we know about gromril and it's strenght, seems to imply even attempting to work it into a chain via purely mundane tools would be a fool's errand or take an ungodly amount of time (think hammering a single bar by hand for decades if not centuries on end, possibly eroding multiple sets of tools in so doing). Even with the Chainforger, I believe we needed amulets of strenght to pull the gromril into wire through the tool.
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The Problem with the chainforger is that it currently requires a powerful suit of armor to protect the user from the heat of the Gromril and give them the strength to pull the weakened gromril wire through the dye. I suppose a community could share the burden of having such armour made. Because even in the golden age, an extra suit of runic armor is nothing to sniff at.

Dolgi's suit didn't quite cut it when it comes to strength enhancement.
 
IronFist said:
The Problem with the chainforger is that it currently requires a powerful suit of armor to protect the user from the heat of the Gromril and give them the strength to pull the weakened gromril wire through the dye. I suppose a community could share the burden of having such armour made. Because even in the golden age, an extra suit of runic armor is nothing to sniff at.

Dolgi's suit didn't quite cut it when it comes to strength enhancement.
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Ah, no. Making the Gromril Wire by hand requires Snorri to be in Barak Azamar to protect him from the heat. The Chainforger just needs the user to have a ton of strength enhancing Runes so their strong enough to actually force the Gromril through the machine.

Seperate issues for two different methods.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Ah, no. Making the Gromril Wire by hand requires Snorri to be in Barak Azamar to protect him from the heat. The Chainforger just needs the user to have a ton of strength enhancing Runes so their strong enough to actually force the Gromril through the machine.

Seperate issues for two different methods.
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The chainforger still has a Master Rune generating enough heat to soften the annealed Gromril, which is probably still enough heat to be hazardous to a dwarf's health. It's not enough heat to melt rock and hammer yourself into it... but it's still pretty dang hot.
 
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