Remove ads

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
A friendly reminder to new questers to read the Informational threadmarks and FAQ specifically before asking a question. Links below:

Frequently Asked Questions
Here is the Detailed Rune List
Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
Last edited:
Dark as Silver said:
An anti scrying rune still does jack shit against the troll that just attacked the caravan though meaning that in the majority of cases its a utterly useless rune.

We keep going over this and perhaps you aren't getting the fundamental disconnect. By and large the people who think its not valuable for the armour condition don't have different expectations for how effective it will be. Our concern is how they will be used.
You seem to think hunting prophets of Hashut who are capable of scrying is going to be a primary role, we think its going to be the role of a its related to a small subsection of the cult (The Order of Watchers) and since we don't know their roles the Watchers might even be a more general out of the hold priests like Logain, making people who will be concerned with the Hashut cultists potentially, a fraction of a fraction and of those only a fraction of the people they're hunting will be prophets capable of scrying... and those prophets might not even know to scry for them or might be able to scry around them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dwaves are already very, very good at defending themselves against random troll attacks. The other Runelords making equipment for the Cult of Gazul are going to be very good at runes that help with that as well. They're completely incapable of defending themselves from hostile scrying.

Also, what makes you think that prophets of Hashut are the only enemies the dwarves face that are capable of information gathering magic or of simply asking daemons? Greedy trolls, beastmen, fimir, and even dragons are running around doing both. A rune that blocks their ability to gather information that way makes attacks, particularly well targeted their attacks much less likely and easier to defend against, and it makes dwarf attacks on them less likely to be expected and so more likely to succeed. Beyond that, there are many runes that dwarves are using that aren't applicable to direct combat, such as the Hearthward combo. That doesn't make them pointless or inferior to combat runes. In some ways, their apparent comparative rarity makes them more valuable, as they are much less likely to be running into diminishing returns or redundancy with other runes.

Dutch said:
This.

The main duty of Gazul's priesthood isn't fighting Hashut. It's finding and guarding the dead.

Because dwarfs whose remains aren't properly interred are barred from entering the Underearth.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Do we actually know that's their actual main job here, in this continuity, where one of Gazul's main, most prominent achievements was destroying the original centre of Hashut's Cult and shattering Hashut himself, and then further breaking down one of the fragments that was involved in destroying a major hold.
 
Last edited:
Alratan said:
Dwaves are already very, very good at defending themselves against random troll attacks. The other Runelords making equipment for the Cult of Gazul are going to be very good at runes that help with that as well. They're completely incapable of defending themselves from hostile scrying.

Also, what makes you think that prophets of Hashut are the only enemies the dwarves face that are capable of information gathering magic or of simply asking daemons? Greedy trolls, beastmen, fimir, and even dragons are running around doing both. A rune that blocks their ability to gather information that way makes attacks, particularly well targeted their attacks much less likely and easier to defend against, and it makes dwarf attacks on them less likely to be expected and so more likely to succeed. Beyond that, there are many runes that dwarves are using that aren't applicable to direct combat, such as the Hearthward combo. That doesn't make them pointless or inferior to combat runes. In some ways, their apparent comparative rarity makes them more valuable, as they are much less likely to be running into diminishing returns or redundancy with other runes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is why talismans and banners exist.

None of this is an effective argument on why Snorri should waste an armor rune that could have been used to assist the user more directly.
 
MrHobbit said:
This is why talismans and banners exist.

None of this is an effective argument on why Snorri should waste an armor rune that could have been used to assist the user more directly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Gazul commission is to make equipment without specifying the kind, not to make armour, unlike the Valayan one, so he could make them cloaks with an anti-scrying banner rune or any kind of talisman with a talismanic rune.
 
Alratan said:
The Gazul commission is to make equipment without specifying the kind, not to make armour, unlike the Valayan one, so he could make them cloaks with an anti-scrying banner rune or any kind of talisman with a talismanic rune.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ahh, no. I have already proven this argument to be wrong. We are making armor.

MrHobbit said:
As fun as it has been for me to reread parts of the Quest, I'm tiring of this.

soulcake said:
Whole cult, but going through local channels to ask you. Because Moira brought you up when they were figuring out who to commission, and then the Gazulites went and asked you for similar enough reasons through similar means.

To be clear for both requests, you're only making some of the Armour needed, and only for the oldest of the old Valkyrie Guard, Watchers and Guardians. Which, while numerous, is still comfortably in your means. Normally this many Dawi would be out of your price range to do all at once, but they're paying you both monetarily and materially so it's doable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
soulcake specifically said we're making armor for both commissions. If Grave Wardens included banners or talismans he would have mentioned it.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Oldest of the Old Gazulites get full armor because they're old and shit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
MrHobbit said:
Not only did soulcake say that the Cult of Gazul came to us with the same purpose as the Cult of Valaya, but he specifically said they were asking for armor.

soulcake has had a few opportunities to say they wanted weapons/talismans/ect instead of just armor.

He took none of them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Alratan said:
Do we actually know that's their actual main job here, in this continuity, where one of Gazul's main, most prominent achievements was destroying the original centre of Hashut's Cult and shattering Hashut himself, and then further breaking down one of the fragments that was involved in destroying a major hold.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You mean safeguarding the dead as they pass into the Underearth?

You mean the thing he's been doing since before Hashut was a twinkle in some ancestor-forsaken hellhole?

The thing Gazul held dear enough to sever all other ties for the sake of?

The reason the Cult of Gazul has any presence in the Hearth Guard?

That thing?

No, why would it possibly be their main job, the Cult of Hashut is everywhere and Dawi don't die everyday. It's more important to hunt cultists than to ensure safe passage for the dead and ease of mind for their loved ones.
 
Alratan said:
Do we actually know that's their actual main job here, in this continuity, where one of Gazul's main, most prominent achievements was destroying the original centre of Hashut's Cult and shattering Hashut himself, and then further breaking down one of the fragments that was involved in destroying a major hold.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Gazul's cult Handles the Dead.

The Order of Watchers is an offshoot of Gazul's Cult that is dedicated to safeguarding Dwarf souls from Chaos and Corruption. They (at least that's my impression) became significantly more prominent than they otherwise would have thanks to how the Chaos Dwarfs fell in this continuity. I.e. as something that can be fought with intrigue and subtlety, rather than armies and sieges.
I think you're overestimating the numbers in the Order of Watchers within the cult and underestimating the rest of the Cult. Not every dwarf is at risk from Chaos, but all of them will need the services of the Cult of Gazul in their other guise.
Every member of the Order of Watchers is a member of Gazul's cult, but not every member of Gazul's cult is a Watcher.

And our commission is for the Greater Cult, not for the Order of Watchers specifically.
 
Alratan said:
Dwaves are already very, very good at defending themselves against random troll attacks. The other Runelords making equipment for the Cult of Gazul are going to be very good at runes that help with that as well. They're completely incapable of defending themselves from hostile scrying.

Also, what makes you think that prophets of Hashut are the only enemies the dwarves face that are capable of information gathering magic or of simply asking daemons? Greedy trolls, beastmen, fimir, and even dragons are running around doing both. A rune that blocks their ability to gather information that way makes attacks, particularly well targeted their attacks much less likely and easier to defend against, and it makes dwarf attacks on them less likely to be expected and so more likely to succeed. Beyond that, there are many runes that dwarves are using that aren't applicable to direct combat, such as the Hearthward combo. That doesn't make them pointless or inferior to combat runes. In some ways, their apparent comparative rarity makes them more valuable, as they are much less likely to be running into diminishing returns or redundancy with other runes.



Do we actually know that's their actual main job here, in this continuity, where one of Gazul's main, most prominent achievements was destroying the original centre of Hashut's Cult and shattering Hashut himself, and then further breaking down one of the fragments that was involved in destroying a major hold.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The other Runelords aren't making anything because we picked up this commission. Thats why the commissions vanish. Runelords don't share, only one of them do the thing.

Super dubious about a lot of the rest of your list, and even if I accept your list is correct (although its amusing to me that you dismiss trolls as a thread but scrying Greedy Trolls, now thats a major concern. :p), these still don't seem like realistic scenarios a priest of gazul is likely to encounter in the course of their duties. Like whats going on here, we have one Bray Shaman who's randomly scrying priests in the hope of finding an isolated target?
However even if I grant it, your "Dwarves already know how to deal with them" applies just as much as when you dismiss my point about standard armour runes being more useful. Non of these are new enemies, theres no paradigm shift to suggest this is becoming a big danger.
It feels more like you're arguing that warding holds to and armies on a strategic level is a good idea. But thats not what I disagree about. In fact the total opposite, I disagree that this warding would represent anti-scrying measures on a strategic level.

I'd really appreciate it if you could stop explaining what the rune does. I know. I just don't think putting it on the Gazulite armour is a good use of effort. Now, if you wanted to research it so that we could ward Kraka Drakk as part of Defense in Depth step whatever, I would be down with that... But that isn't what we're arguing.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if we make a Master Rune of Repair we can apply it to the Underway so that in case the Slann start screwing with the geography, it automatically fixes itself or hell, auto seals any breachs by Orks, Skaven, Etc

Also, this is a big stretch, but maybe the Rune of Stacking could lead to shortening the time it takes to travel the under way through bending space
 
Last edited:
LunarLance said:
I wonder if we make a Master Rune of Repair we can apply it to the Underway so that in case the Slann start screwing with the geography, it automatically fixes itself or hell, auto seals any breachs by Orks, Skaven, Etc

Also, this is a big stretch, but maybe the Rune of Stacking could lead to shortening the time it takes to travel the under way through bending space
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The effect of runes gets diluted the larger the area of effect.
So you would need very many master runes for what you want.
 
What would the combo be to create an MRepair that can regenerate serious damage? I'm pretty sure Smednir would be in there, maybe Repair+Smednir+Stone?
 
Dark as Silver said:
Thus the fact that we know this commission is coming from the cult, means they're probably concerned about the wave of expansion exactly as they told us and people are overthinking it a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Who, exactly, do you think the Cult of Gazul is going to be fighting, other than the chaos dwarves, that an anti-scrying/anti-magic rune would not be useful against? The priests of Gazul are specialists. If they're seeing combat instead of their more typical duties, it's a) the undead, b) chaos dwarves, c) chaos generally or d) weird shit which is likely magical in nature.

Again, given their purview and ranger-y combat culture, the wardstone rune would be a massively valuable addition to their armour in just about any typical situation they would deploy.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
Who, exactly, do you think the Cult of Gazul is going to be fighting, other than the chaos dwarves, that an anti-scrying/anti-magic rune would not be useful against? The priests of Gazul are specialists. If they're seeing combat instead of their more typical duties, it's a) the undead, b) chaos dwarves, c) chaos generally or d) weird shit which is likely magical in nature.

Again, given their purview and ranger-y combat culture, the wardstone rune would be a massively valuable addition to their armour in just about any typical situation they would deploy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, the Wardstone Rune would be useful for talismans and banners.

There is no point in wasting an armor rune on it.
 
MrHobbit said:
There is no point in wasting an armor rune on it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


I'm sorry, did the Cult of Gazul somehow also happen to order a giant swath of banners and talismans? Because if not, talking about them is utterly irrelevant.

Further, it's a simple request, meaning we don't pick the runes. Our opinion on the relative value of various runes is meaningless, because Snorri's picking.

The only thing we're talking about here is, "Does a Rune that protects against magical attack and scrying have potential utility in a defensive array for a member of the Cult of Gazul?" And I cannot for the life of me see a reasonable argument that it doesn't.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
I'm sorry, did the Cult of Gazul somehow also happen to order a giant swath of banners and talismans? Because if not, talking about them is utterly irrelevant.

Further, it's a simple request, meaning we don't pick the runes. Our opinion on the relative value of various runes is meaningless, because Snorri's picking.

The only thing we're talking about here is, "Does a Rune that protects against magical attack and scrying have potential utility in a defensive array for a member of the Cult of Gazul?" And I cannot for the life of me see a reasonable argument that it doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course they did not. And they are relevant because that is where a Wardstone rune would be useful.

Yes, and Snorri wouldn't have used the Wardstone rune on the Gazulite commission, even if we had researched it, for all of the reasons I have already mentioned. Armor is not the niche that they fulfill.

It is useful as a banner or talisman. It is a complete waste as an armor Rune. Just like how the Rune of Forged Limb would be wasted on an armor piece.
 
I think this is the hundredth time we talked about this no one gonna. change their minds by this point so let drop it for the thread health
 
TempestK said:
I love how you're making all of these sweeping proclamations about how stuff we haven't researched works as if they were fact instead of your personal opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am basing it on how everything else works. Armor runes provide more, but more condensed protection than banner runes. While using the Wardstone Rune in an armor slot would block Snorri from using the Rune of Stone/Steel/Lightspite/Fortitude/Lightning/Grungni/Impact/Speed/Vitality/ect. While talismans have more options. The opportunities lost is not so high.

It's the opportunity cost that makes the Wardstone Rune nonviable as armor.
 
Question has there been any plans to make some really good weapons like tier 3 and 4 stuff for our bodyguards? So there become better at aiding others and killing our enemies? What's the general consensus there right now?
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top