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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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LaggPlaguedDuke said:
It basically either do the basket with the goal being meeting Grungni and Valaya down at the conclave again and getting something for completing both projects and I'd say that's pretty decent chance considering the chain is going to be the big flex of that event, or the wardstones and get something useful for the Gazul commission.

I prefer the basket off that alone tbh.
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Or we make use of Yorri to significantly increase our understanding of Deep Magic and impress Thungni.
 
ArchAIngel said:
There's a very simple counter argument to this:

If there's so few Valkyrie Guard, why does the Gazul action take the same amount of actions as the Valaya one?

Logically, actions X is actions X, I think we can agree that there's a roughly equivalent "1 action is X effort" thing going on. So we'd be putting in the same effort to equip the Elders of the Cult. Ergo, 2 conclusions.

1: There's less effort going into the kit of the Gazulites, as there's more of them. This doesn't feel very Dawi to me, given the perfectionism running through the entire culture.

2: There's the same amount of effort per Eldar and a roughly equal number of Elders.
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Because Gazul's commissions take less time per person?

Sir LagsAlot said:
There may be more but they don't need more to do the same type of job which they have admitted in their own words they are doing so what it boils down to especially when we're going to be spending at least double the time armoring every Valkyrie Guard compared to a priest of the cult of Gazul is that we shouldn't need to spend as much time doing the Grave Warden commission as we would the Valkyrie Guard commission if you were right and we were only making armor for each of the Grave Wardens rather than equipment.
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As I said, there are going to be more Gazulite elders than Valkyrie Guard elders simply because of the Rules that the two operate under.
 
soulcake said:
In celebration of Mogrim's work in the Far North, the local Engineers Guilds and Cult of Morgrim have come together and entered a contest against each other.
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*Morgrim. Also, I'm not 100% clear on what the Gnolbarag commission is for. The obvious inference to draw (so I'm close to 100% tbf) is that we're meant to rune up the Bolt Thrower itself because, idk, that was the contest prize or something, but it doesn't actually say that.

Also, thanks for the turn! Always makes me smile when that pops up in my notifications.
 
MrHobbit said:
As I said, there are going to be more Gazulite elders than Valkyrie Guard elders simply because of the Rules that the two operate under.
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They're sending the same core of Grave Wardens that the Valayans are sending of Valkyrie Guards they've said that and logically since it takes us like half the time to do a Grave Warden that it does to do a Valkyrie Guard that's obviously why they're asking us to do their equipment and not just their armor and that's why the actions cost the same not because we're just armoring more Dwarfs otherwise it literally would have said armor and not equipment.
 
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Sir LagsAlot said:
They're sending the same core of Grave Wardens that the Valayans are sending of Valkyrie Guards they've said that and logically since it takes us like half the time to do a Grave Warden that it does to do a Valkyrie Guard that's obviously why they're asking us to do their equipment and not just their armor and that's why the actions cost the same not because we're just armoring more Dwarfs otherwise it literally would have said armor and not equipment.
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:jackiechan:

How many times will I have to repeat this? Armoured Maidens only covers the eldest of the Valkyrie Guard. The Valkyrie Guard only accepts women and if the women marry they leave the Guard, typically becoming a typical priestess. Snorri talked about this.

The Cult of Gazul doesn't have those types of restrictions. They will have, hmm, at least 300% more people to arm as the Valkyrie Guard, from the gender restriction alone. I imagine that it goes up even higher when you include the marriage factor.

Edit: @Deuterium Dawn also pointed out that it says the Cult of Gazul reached out to us for the same reason as the Cult of Valaya. If they were asking for Banners, soulcake would have used similar, not same.

soulcake said:
(*New*)[ ] [Simple] Grave Wardens: [Cost: 12 actions] Due end of Turn 42. Productivity like No Other will proc. Gain 70 Favour and 1 Standing with the Cult of Gazul. Just as the Cult of Valaya has the inkling of a great colonization wave, the other Ancestor Cults have also taken notice. The local Cult of Gazul has come to you for the same reason the Cult of Valaya has, to arm their most senior members with the kind of equipment befitting their station, both current and for those future Dawi who may take up this most sacred of duties.
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MrHobbit said:
:jackiechan:

How many times will I have to repeat this? Armoured Maidens only covers the eldest of the Valkyrie Guard. The Valkyrie Guard only accepts women and if the women marry they leave the Guard, typically becoming a typical priestess. Snorri talked about this.

The Cult of Gazul doesn't have those types of restrictions. They will have, hmm, at least 300% more people to arm as the Valkyrie Guard, from the gender restriction alone. I imagine that it goes up even higher when you include the marriage factor.
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Except you keep equating a lesser ancestor god to Valaya and assuming they have the same membership especially with regards to their elders when arguably the Cult of Gazul on top of not being as popular as the Cult of Valaya would also have a worse attrition rate leaving them with fewer elder per capita on top of that and in addition to that they said they're only sending the same core group of elders to Vallayans implying they're at least similar in number if they thought to compare groups like that.
MrHobbit said:
Edit: @Deuterium Dawn also pointed out that it says the Cult of Gazul reached out to us for the same reason as the Cult of Valaya. If they were asking for Banners, soulcake would have used similar, not same.
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Except you ignore the very next line where it specifies equipment, not armor both can easily be described as the exact same logically as you're still equipping both groups which is the language used here.
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
Except you keep equating a lesser ancestor god to Valaya and assuming they have the same membership especially with regards to their elders when arguably the Cult of Gazul on top of not being as popular as the Cult of Valaya would also have a worse attrition rate leaving them with fewer elder per capita on top of that and in addition to that they said they're only sending the same core group of elders to Vallayans implying they're at least similar in number if they thought to compare groups like that.

Except you ignore the very next line where it specifies equipment, not armor both can easily be described as the exact same logically as you're still equipping both groups which is the language used here.
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Gazul is still a sibling to Valaya. Of course the Cult of Gazul wouldn't be as popular as the Cult of Valaya, but the Valkyrie Guard is a different matter entirely.

As I have said. Over. And Over. And Over.

The type of Dwarf women who join the Valkyrie Guard is probably going to be less than those Dwarfs who join the Cult of Gazul. Not only is the former limited to 25% of the population, but of those 25% the people who join have to join swearing Oaths to not take husbands. Most Dwarf women marry. Furthermore, a fair amount of them apparently leave the Guard to join the Cult proper after finding a husband worth their time.

Also the Valkyrie Guard has less need for members because it tends to stay in the Holds protecting the various temples of Valaya.

While it seems that most Priests of Gazul are armed in some sort of fashion. I would guess it is because the Priests of Gazul tend to follow Throngs because of the whole death thing.

soulcake said:
As the literal Shield Maidens that defended the temples of Valaya, the Valkyrie Guard served either for life or until they decided to find a man worth their time and bear children. In the case of the latter, these former warrior clerics were offered the chance to become priestesses of Valaya in full and continue their service to the Ancestors in a more domestic fashion. After a bit of conversation with all three, you find that behind their calm masks is a burning passion to take the fight to the enemies of Valaya and Dwarfkind that has not been fully tamped out.
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As fun as it has been for me to reread parts of the Quest, I'm tiring of this.

soulcake said:
Whole cult, but going through local channels to ask you. Because Moira brought you up when they were figuring out who to commission, and then the Gazulites went and asked you for similar enough reasons through similar means.

To be clear for both requests, you're only making some of the Armour needed, and only for the oldest of the old Valkyrie Guard, Watchers and Guardians. Which, while numerous, is still comfortably in your means. Normally this many Dawi would be out of your price range to do all at once, but they're paying you both monetarily and materially so it's doable.
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soulcake specifically said we're making armor for both commissions. If Grave Wardens included banners or talismans he would have mentioned it.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Oldest of the Old Gazulites get full armor because they're old and shit.
 
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soulcake said:
(*New*)[ ] [Simple] Grave Wardens: [Cost: 12 actions] Due end of Turn 42. Productivity like No Other will proc. Gain 70 Favour and 1 Standing with the Cult of Gazul. Just as the Cult of Valaya has the inkling of a great colonization wave, the other Ancestor Cults have also taken notice. The local Cult of Gazul has come to you for the same reason the Cult of Valaya has, to arm their most senior members with the kind of equipment befitting their station, both current and for those future Dawi who may take up this most sacred of duties.
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I see the word equipment and visualize weapons, talismans, armor, and banners not just armor.
 
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[X] Plan Basket

I'd like to get this done before Valaya leaves.

Also, I'm missing something. Didn't Snerra say that she wanted to take the 'Arming the War Maidens' request? That's what it sounded like to me, but we're still taking it ourselves. Are we doing it to work with Snerra or to share the load of the work with her? Or is it something else I missed by not being caught up on the discussion?
 
[X] Plan Basket
-[X] Render Aid: [Cost: 1 retainer action] Can be taken multiple times. Roll for usefulness, additional actions apply bonus to roll. Gain reputation and +2 bonus per action to Recruitment Dice. You formed these Hearthguard to combat all the ills that befall the dwarfen people. Send them out, render aid, earn goodwill and spread the word of your retainers and their stated mission beyond the borders of Kraka Drakk. 2 Retainer Actions.
--[X] Deep Surveying: Gain 30 Favour +? With Kraka Drakk.
--[X] Elderly Expertise: Gain 40 Favour +? With Stormpeak.
-[X] Understand Valaya's Runes: [Cost: (12 -6) =6 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. On the basket that bears her Master Rune, Valaya or perhaps some other Runesmith put down two other Runes. You can make a guess as to their purpose, but aren't too sure. One bears a similarity to the Rune of Load-bearing, the other the Rune of Healing. 4 Actions.
-[X] ORDER: Merwyrm Corpse
[X] [Letters]: Knowledge about Avelorn's Magical Traditions

I've decided that even if the wardstones are applicable to Gazul's commission, and I'm still really interested in them, we're pretty unlikely to meet Gazul at Rhunkalbrogg(did I spell that right?) or ever really, given how much he moves around. And I'd like to have both gifts done by then even if Valaya's is less likely to make a splash.
 
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Darkcrest said:
I see the word equipment and visualize weapons, talismans, armor, and banners not just armor.
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Not only did soulcake say that the Cult of Gazul came to us with the same purpose as the Cult of Valaya, but he specifically said they were asking for armor.

soulcake has had a few opportunities to say they wanted weapons/talismans/ect instead of just armor.

He took none of them.
 
Zedman7054 said:
Also, I'm missing something. Didn't Snerra say that she wanted to take the 'Arming the War Maidens' request? That's what it sounded like to me, but we're still taking it ourselves. Are we doing it to work with Snerra or to share the load of the work with her? Or is it something else I missed by not being caught up on the discussion?
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Snerra wanted to take on making forged limbs (runic prosthetic limbs) for people all over the north. Snorri had previously avoided doing that outside of Krakka Drakk due to potential political issues but with the latest vote we've pretty much thrown that stance aside in favour of just teaching the rune to anyone who asks.

The Armoured Maidens commission is a separate thing to make armour for the elite shieldmaidens.
 
Very much in favor of getting started on the actual commissions we've committed to rather than chasing after research shinies.

[X] Plan Prepare for a Yorriing
 
@soulcake I have a question, will we be demonstrating the gromil chain maker at the runelord convention and as such wear Barak Azamar to operate it?
 
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