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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Wonder what happens to the stuff stored inside if the rune of Stacking is damaged? Because a shell containing dronril stones with Stacking+Immolation (the self-destruct rune) = flaming cluster bombs.
 
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What does everyone else make of this:

Aerie Aid: For saving the life of the children of He who Thinks and Ebonbeak, those present for the event have been granted a boon, and their lord his esteem​

From the Hearthguard section of the char sheet?
 
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Alratan said:
What does everyone else make of this:

Aerie Aid: For saving the life of the children of He who Thinks and Ebonbeak, those present for the event have been granted a boon, and their lord his esteem​

From the Hearthguard section of the char sheet?
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That soulcake is writing and we'll get an updoot soon?

And probably dragon loot.
 
Okay, I've got like, 5 ideas for Combo just using these, holy shit, they're AMAZEBALLS. Including mimicking hyper-dense materials with Stacking on Armor to make ungodly dense gromril.

Also Dwarven Clown Cars for HAHA DEEP STRIKE, some serious ideas for regeneration based shielding using Repair and MR Valaya Talisman.

Also, anyone else thinking that MR Valaya Talisman seems a lot like Ancestral Aegis?
 
The main idea I have for the Rune of Repair is to investigate whether it synergises with the Master Rune of Awakening or Rune of Forged Limb to make constructs more lifelike. The problem is that this would be very speculative research. Snorri originally observed that the Rune of Repair had similarities to the Rune of Healing, so examining those similarities as well as the differences might give more information on how the gap between the living and unliving is bridged.

After all, the (Master) Rune of Awakening gives many of the characteristics of life to the inanimate, while the Rune of Repair gives another important one of them.
 
ArchAIngel said:
Okay, I've got like, 5 ideas for Combo just using these, holy shit, they're AMAZEBALLS. Including mimicking hyper-dense materials with Stacking on Armor to make ungodly dense gromril.

Also Dwarven Clown Cars for HAHA DEEP STRIKE, some serious ideas for regeneration based shielding using Repair and MR Valaya Talisman.

Also, anyone else thinking that MR Valaya Talisman seems a lot like Ancestral Aegis?
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I think you're getting ahead of yourself, for starters:
soulcake said:
Rune of Stacking: Containers that bear this Rune can store multiple times their volume. Weight of extra volume half of what it should be.
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I don't think we have any reason to believe that this would change the physical properties of the material besides making it heavier.
And I will point out that the same process you're suggesting to make stronger armour is also being prescribed to make cluster bomb munitions, which should highlight how little we can reason from these descriptions and

Yeah it also looks like the conversion combo.
Basically I think there are only so many different ways to describe anti magic combos.
 
I'm pretty happy with the new runes, I didn't think the chances of them helping with the armour was that high and these seem like they will open up some interesting new tech trees. Wait, I take it back, I don't like these runes they're probably going to open up even more tech trees!

Also not sure if it's deliberate but our standing with Kraka Grom was changed from:
Kraka Grom "The Unyielding Hold": Standing ?, Favours ?
to:
Kraka Grom "The Unyielding Hold": Standing 1?, Favours ?
If deliberate it seems to be implying we are at least at 10 with them and the possibility is because of how heavy our role in their saving and founding was maybe 11?

We also got a standing for the new aerie and Ebonbeak got transferred from the old one into it.
soulcake said:
Karazbinvarr, "Mountain by the Sea", Aerie near Kraka Ravnsvake: Standing 6
- He who Thinks/ Brangandazi, Scion of the Sky, Future Lord of Karazbinvarr: Standing 6
- She who's Beak Shines Darkly/ Ebonbeak, Princess Consort of He who Thinks: Standing 8
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I can't see anything else that hasn't already been mentioned.
 
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Jreengus said:
I'm pretty happy with the new runes, I didn't think the chances of them helping with the armour was that high and these seem like they will open up some interesting new tech trees. Wait, I take it back, I don't like these runes they're probably going to open up even more tech trees!

Also not sure if it's deliberate but out standing with Kraka Grom was changed from:
Kraka Grom "The Unyielding Hold": Standing ?, Favours ?
to:
Kraka Grom "The Unyielding Hold": Standing 1?, Favours ?
If deliberate it seems to be implying we are at least at 10 with them and the possibility is because of how heavy our role in their saving and founding was maybe 11?

We also got a standing for the new aerie and Ebonbeak got transferred from the old one into it.

I can't see anything else that hasn't already been mentioned.
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Words can't convey my feelings, have a meme instead


I'm reposting this after the update I think :V
 
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Dark as Silver said:
I hate to say I told you so. But actually I'm lying I'm very happy to.
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Oi! No fair! I'm the one who argued the most about that! I should have been the one to say that!

:V

BelligerentGnu said:
I knew wardstones was the superior armor research option!
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Uhh, no. Putting Wardstones on armor is much to limited and is a waste of an armor Rune that could help the wielder much more directly. The Rune of Repair is more useful for amror than the Wardstone will ever be and even then.

The last Runesmiths of Karag Dum used the Wardstone Rune on those stone things for reason.
 
MrHobbit said:
Uhh, no. Putting Wardstones on armor is much to limited and is a waste of an armor Rune that could help the wielder much more directly. The Rune of Repair is more useful for amror than the Wardstone will ever be and even then.

The last Runesmiths of Karag Dum used the Wardstone Rune on those stone things for reason.
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There's no evidence for this. A Wardstone on armour might, for example, produce a stronger, more localised effect than a banner rune version, so be useful on armour designed to resist more directed, targeted scrying, while a banner version has a more diffuse effect. That's the general pattern we've seen for armour and banner versions of runes.

Of course, as we're not just making armour for the Cult of Gazul, but equipment in general, this is a total red herring anyway. We could have made them banner runes (either as banners or as cloaks), or talisman runes as part of the commission, and have the more broad scale effect. Whatever form the anti-scrying runes take, probably apart from engineering runes, it would be applicable to the commission. This actually probably makes the basket runes very marginally useful for the Gazul commission, as we could make them expanded backpacks to ease their travels, even though they're useless for the Valayan's armour.

As to why the Runesmiths of Dum made the larger scale Wardstones, it's because they had to hide much larger groups, the entire surviving loyal population, from scrying. The Cult of Gazul doesn't need this for its field agents. A more focused effect would be more useful for them.
 
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Alratan said:
There's no evidence for this. A Wardstone on armour might, for example, produce a stronger, more localised effect than a banner rune version, so be useful on armour designed to resist more directed, targeted scrying, while a banner version

Of course, as we're not just making armour for the Cult of Gazul, but equipment in general, this is a total red herring anyway. We could have made them banner runes (either as banners or as cloaks), or talisman runes as part of the commission, and have the more broad scale effect. Whatever form the anti-scrying runes take, probably apart from engineering runes, it would be applicable to the commission.

As to why the Runesmiths of Dum made Wardstones, it's because they had to hide much larger groups, the entire surviving loyal
population, from scrying than the Cult of Gazul does when in the field.
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An anti scrying rune still does jack shit against the troll that just attacked the caravan though meaning that in the majority of cases its a utterly useless rune.

We keep going over this and perhaps you aren't getting the fundamental disconnect. By and large the people who think its not valuable for the armour condition don't have different expectations for how effective it will be. Our concern is how they will be used.
You seem to think hunting prophets of Hashut who are capable of scrying is going to be a primary role, we think its going to be the role of a its related to a small subsection of the cult (The Order of Watchers) and since we don't know their roles the Watchers might even be a more general out of the hold priests like Logain, making people who will be concerned with the Hashut cultists potentially, a fraction of a fraction and of those only a fraction of the people they're hunting will be prophets capable of scrying... and those prophets might not even know to scry for them or might be able to scry around them.
 
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You know, if you so badly wanted something Gazul-especial for the Gazulite commission, there was another much more fitting and related source of research you might have wanted to argue for...
soulcake said:
[ ] The Happening of Things: [Cost: 8 actions] Journeyman of the Odd will proc. The vision gnaws at you, a flame to the parchment of your mind. There is a theory, a hypothesis you wish to test and the faintest inklings of a Rune in your mind's eye. But there's a good deal of preparatory work to be done. One doesn't futz about with what you think you saw in that vision after all!
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... The Happening of Things.

The, y'know, actual Rune of Gazul that Snorri literally, physically, saw.

Now that would have been a hell of a thing to add to the Gazulite commission!

... Of course, at 8 Actions just for Part 1, we would only barely have been able to finish Part 1, sadly.


But, well, still.

You know what might potentially could make for a good Gazul-associated research topic, if you wanted to add something special to the Gazul Commission? *waves hand in the direction of The Happening of Things* That!

Maybe it'd even be better and more useful to the Gazulites. Maybe the Rune of Ties would let them see ties of fate and track down the Sorcerer-Prophets of Hashut better. (Or track down Tzeentchian daemons and sorcerers too.)

The Wardstone runes weren't even being used by Gazulites, they were being used by the Karag Dum dwarfs to hide. The Gazulites don't have a hiding problem; they have a finding problem! Identifying and rooting out Hashut cultists is hard.
 
The new runes aren't immediately useful for armor, but I like them a lot all the same. Repair will help with superficial damage and maintenance, particularly useful for walls and similar defences and structures. And the ability to suddenly much more easily transport much larger hauls will be real nice. It's fantastic for supplying Throngs when we march for battle, and would also be an amazing gift to our merchant brother. Oh, and new research opportunities.
 
Dark as Silver said:
An anti scrying rune still does jack shit against the troll that just attacked the caravan though meaning that in the majority of cases its a utterly useless rune.

We keep going over this and perhaps you aren't getting the fundamental disconnect. By and large the people who think its not valuable for the armour condition don't have different expectations for how effective it will be. Our concern is how they will be used.
You seem to think hunting prophets of Hashut who are capable of scrying is going to be a primary role, we think its going to be the role of a its related to a small subsection of the cult (The Order of Watchers) and since we don't know their roles the Watchers might even be a more general out of the hold priests like Logain, making people who will be concerned with the Hashut cultists potentially, a fraction of a fraction and of those only a fraction of the people they're hunting will be prophets capable of scrying... and those prophets might not even know to scry for them or might be able to scry around them.
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The anti scrying equipment is fairly specialized, but I think you're underestimating it's value. For regular warriors and low grade heroes it's situational, but the more important they are the more useful this sort of thing would be since they're more attractive targets.

Hashut's priests aren't the only people who can scry things, and the tricky thing about dealing with people who use those sorts of tools is that you often don't know when you need to prepare against them until well after the fact. The only effective solution is constant passive protection.
 
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MrHobbit said:
Uhh, no. Putting Wardstones on armor is much to limited and is a waste of an armor Rune that could help the wielder much more directly. The Rune of Repair is more useful for amror than the Wardstone will ever be and even then.

The last Runesmiths of Karag Dum used the Wardstone Rune on those stone things for reason.
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???

A Rune that prevents magical detection and magical attack wouldn't be useful on the armour of Gazul's servants, they who hunt down chaos dwarves?

....I'm just going to have to agree to disagree, because I have no idea how you even managed to reach that opinion.

Garlak said:
The Gazulites don't have a hiding problem; they have a finding problem! Identifying and rooting out Hashut cultists is hard.
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They're not unrelated, though. If the chaos dwarves see then coming, they can retreat and go to ground. Thus, approaching undetected makes finding easier.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
The anti scrying equipment is fairly specialized, but I think you're underestimating it's value. For regular warriors and low grade heroes it's situational, but the more important they are the more useful this sort of thing would be since they're more attractive targets.

Hashut's priests aren't the only people who can scry things, and the tricky thing about dealing with people who use those sorts of tools is that you often don't know when you need to prepare against them until well after the fact. The only effective solution is constant passive protection.
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But this is only tangentially arguing that we should research it for the commission. What you're arguing is that we should research it so we can ward the hold.
Which I'm more than happy to consider, but it doesn't need to come into the plans in the immediate future. Or at least not before the Gazul commission. (Not that we could possibly fit it in anymore.)
BelligerentGnu said:
???

A Rune that prevents magical detection and magical attack wouldn't be useful on the armour of Gazul's servants, they who hunt down chaos dwarves?

....I'm just going to have to agree to disagree, because I have no idea how you even managed to reach that opinion.



They're not unrelated, though. If the chaos dwarves see then coming, they can retreat and go to ground. Thus, approaching undetected makes finding easier.
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Again
Dark as Silver said:
We keep going over this and perhaps you aren't getting the fundamental disconnect. By and large the people who think its not valuable for the armour condition don't have different expectations for how effective it will be. Our concern is how they will be used.
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We think chaos dwarves are a minor part of the job.

We know from Gemlin that the Order of Watchers will make commissions under its own name even to dwarves who don't know it exists. We have no reason to believe that they'd try to hide who the order was actually coming from from Snorri.
Thus the fact that we know this commission is coming from the cult, means they're probably concerned about the wave of expansion exactly as they told us and people are overthinking it a lot.
 
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