RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[TehChron]

The problem is exactly that, they're just going to be largely disposable mobs of demons at that point. All of them are the chaff who ran ahead for sweet sweet loot while the big boys are too busy jostling for rank.

We need to think about when a demon strong enough to snowball all those little bands together into a blob. At best we could run around and attack some of the larger armies as they are weakened by infighting.

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And strategically speaking, having an encirclement of fortifications around such an army means we can have more points of ingress to.lead charges towards said big bad demons and gank them.

 

[wrecksalot]

To revisit a slightly old issue, there is nothing saying we NEED the stuff from Rune Metal for it. One could argue that by that logic we should be researching everything we can and never stop to make the bestest thing ever, as opposed to, as you so eloquently said earlier, convincing me to make super Trollslayer, actually DOING stuff with the research. And if we need more ingredients, we'll never know what they are unless we actually do the research. So I figure we should try and get the Heart project started.

We don't even know if we'll survive the Great Cataclysm. We've done well, but we're gonna be at the forefront I imagine.

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I want to use the Heart for Ymir, which necessitates at least the secrets of motion, and I want to see what the Rune Metal tree has in store before we research that.

 

[Jedij4]

Guys, dragons absolutely love dwarves!
They're basically yummy bees that collect shiney things instead of honey.

They're like the ultimate time savers! You just have to pry open the dwarf hive and get past all those meanie stingers first. Owie

I know they can be scary for any hatchlings out there, but one or two dwarf hives are an absolute must for building any respectable dragon horde.

Personally I recommend smoking them out beforehand. It just makes it sooo much easier if they get all woozy and asphyxiated beforehand.

Good luck and good hunting my fellow scaly bois, this is smug the dragon. If you liked this post please remember to smash that like button and follow me on hoarders.

 

[Jedij4]

...

I have discovered our new Master Rune.

We are inventing the Master Rune of Flight. So that our Mountain Goats will be able to indeed, fly.

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Is the world really prepared for a master rune of goat? Wait, goat rune....

SUDDENLY ALL THAT HERDING DURING OUR APPRENTICESHIP MAKES PERFECT SENSE. SASUGA YORRI-SENSEI!!

 

[ChiefTurtle117]

Going back to the original point, I don't think we can keep a path to our new grove of silver trees open. We would have to be able to hold that location on it's own for an unknown period of time. Possibly hoping that the bored demons don't run around looking for easier targets after a few rounds of throwing themselves at karak-a-boathammered.

If we waste the money and time on fortifying this Forrest, will we even be able to hold it? Our best bet is to thoroughly cover it in runes of hiding and plz no demons and hope it survives the war.

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Not that long actually. Aenarion's already gone and picked up Widowmaker, so Caledor just needs to meet Grimnir, and then it is Vortex time.

So, we'd probably need to hunker down for anywhere between 10-20 turns at most. A good indicator of how long things will go on would be when Grimnir comes knocking about.

 

[kobo]

Is there a difference between a master Runesmith, and a Runelord or are the terms interchangeable?

Developing a runic airship sounds very cool.

 

[Garlak]

I'm pretty sure that the Underway is what the Dwarfs used to keep their Karaks connected, and to use it to keep trade going and flowing between them. The Underway is not a vulnerability. The Underway is a -- the -- main way the Dwarfs keep supply lines and trade going and keep their Karaks connected!

It took volcanic eruptions and massive tectonic shifts, which tore things apart and tore things open, before the Underway became vulnerable.

I mean, in a story post, we were told about how the enterprising "read: young and therefore foolish" the Dwarfs that had decided to take an overland pass and visit the newly named Crystal Pass, instead of the Underway. Of course part of that was probably just grumbling about youths rather than genuine 'Holy shit these guys are crazy', but. It does give you an idea of how the Underway is viewed, how safe and reliable, in contrast to how an overland pass would get more grumbling over it.

Now of course if you were to connect the Underway to mines and forests full of resources -- which one of the angles that was brought up at the start of this was -- that does probably change things. Buuuut. I mean. Maybe it doesn't have to be an Underway connection? Maybe it could just be a tunnel? That goes from the Gromril mine to near(ish) the Karak, rather than directly to it.


On another note, the talk about the Master Rune of Flying and trying to use it to get something to fly, made me think... what if the solution to that winds up being just ("just") transforming it into an Engineering Rune rather than a Weapon Rune?

The first flying machine. Created not with engineering alone. But with a melding of Engineering and Runesmithing.

Amusingly, that would make it a sort of reverse of the golems post War of Vengeance -- where Engineering was added to a formerly Runes-only thing... of using Engineering to make a style of Runesmithing possible again... this would be the usage of Runes to create a warmachine.

Not just Runes to enhance a warmachine. But to make it able to operate in the first place.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Is there a difference between a master Runesmith, and a Runelord or are the terms interchangeable?

Developing a runic airship sounds very cool.

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I think a Runesmith is a level of skill, and Runelord a level of skill and social standing?

 

[BungieONI]

To revisit a slightly old issue, there is nothing saying we NEED the stuff from Rune Metal for it. One could argue that by that logic we should be researching everything we can and never stop to make the bestest thing ever, as opposed to, as you so eloquently said earlier, convincing me to make super Trollslayer, actually DOING stuff with the research. And if we need more ingredients, we'll never know what they are unless we actually do the research. So I figure we should try and get the Heart project started.

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I mean, yeah. What I'm talking about there for context is the Super Golem idea, Ymir. That has a lot of leg work in research to do the best, but crucially, those requirements are limited because as you and I have said. DOING is important. Need a terminus, cut off point, if you want to actually DO anything. Depending on what project we want done with it in the end there's some logical, and crucially, limited requirements to do that project appropriately. Research projects among them. Whatever that hypothetical project might be, there's been multiple suggestions. And, well, like I said and you mention about DOING things. One can argue that we should be researching everything to make the bestest thing ever and that we should get the widest selection of great ingredients. But we really shouldn't and its not a support to starting the Heart now because research and collection without end just wastes time and will inevitably exceed our abilities to even use anyway.

To revisit my old statements I've got no problems with trickle research(trickle research being defined in my mind as one to two actions, because our traits are pretty valuable) onto like, any project quite frankly, though obviously the Heart and the Rune Metal are in the lead in the priority list for the research as it stands. So putting the Heart onto next turn's plan is straightforward under that criteria. Basically, researching it now is good prepwork that we won't have to worry about in two centuries or whatever.

I don't have any real issue with starting the Heart now, largely because to do any of the projects that have been proposed that make a lot of use from it would just take Time and lots of it before the gathering of ingredients and scutwork to a project is done.

Basically in that post I'm objecting to the idea of projects with the Heart that are on the scale of Trollslayer. I'd like to do a project that's significant enough that build up is required to realize it, because I think that as it stands Snorri doesn't have the knowledge, tools, or materials to properly make use of the Heart. What exactly needs to be built up will vary between the various options we have. And tbh, before we get too far into such proposals we should research the Heart, so that we have a better grasp of its potential.

 

[Abhishekam]

*eyeballs the Master Rune of Disguise and the Runes of Spelleating and Spellbreaking*

*raise finger* *lowers finger*

... ya know, you might be being facetious here but we might actually be able to do that. Put them up on Menhirs (Standing stones) surrounding the grove and then come back whenever the daemons go away.

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Plan Hide a Forest with Rocks?

Could stick Ymir there too. Figure he will be bigger than the entrance anyway. Hehe we get any sign of trouble he start making his way to us. Get us a second Runlord Workshop set up in the forest too and we would be all set. I figure if it's too far to make travel easy another hold will pop up there eventually.

 

[Captain Spatula]

That exploration action turned out a lot better than I thought it would really. Recouped our favour spent and everything. Hell, it seems the Gate itself paid out more favour than we put in?

But yeah, glad we got shavings and seeds though. When shit hits the fan we can just excavate a secluded grove on top of the mountain and grow our own damn forest as another fuck you to daemons. We've already got the farms in the hold to prevent sieges. We've got the underway being gradually excavated north.

Honestly, the North Holds will probably be hit hard. But if they're built anything like our Hold, like tradition kind of dictates, they should be able to handle sieges for decades at least. Probably centuries.

Probably need relief from a Throng to destroy the sieging daemons and it'll probably fall to our hold to offer the Throng because our Hold has been established the longest and has the more in depth defences.

 

[BungieONI]

Basically @EVA-Saiyajin (having just seen your edit) I don't think we'll get a item that's going to live up to what you want if we research the Heart and then leap directly into trying to make something from it.

Like. It'd save lives. Whatever it is. I absolutely agree with that.

E: I guess if you use that context, what I've been doing with the defense requests is to make as much of an effort as possible to preserve lives without using it so that we can use the Heart to its best and then save even more.

 

[Abhishekam]

You know what? Next turn. 3 actions on Heart Research action and one on looking up another place or requesting the engineers guild to use the new super would and pure Gromril to make a uber bolt thrower to Master Rune. Get it done, get a list and requirements.

I'm comfortable with the defenses for now so let's get some research done fast.

 

[Garlak]

About those Wutroth seeds though. While it's nice to have a collection of them in our hold, for juuust in case if anything happened to the wild forest one... I do wonder whether it's possible for these seeds to grow in the south, too?

I mean, I dunno if we would or would not be willing to sell some seeds to the south. But. If the main concern was "It's good we gathered some seeds; because that way, if anything happened to the forest, at least we'd have some samples in our Karak" then... spreading them to other holds would do even more to keep them from being endangered or risked.

And, heck, right now I don't think we have an Underway passage to Kraka Drakk, right? ((Though amusingly enough, apparently there'd be one to Karag Dum, which is further to the north than the Norscan Dwarfs even. It's just Karag Dum was to the east, and more directly north along the rough line of the Karaz Ankor. But who knows if Karag Dum even exists yet. Does it?))

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Basically @EVA-Saiyajin (having just seen your edit) I don't think we'll get a item that's going to live up to what you want if we research the Heart and then leap directly into trying to make something from it.

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And that is absolutely fine. Putting aside I'm dubious on the value of Ymir in terms of cost effectiveness with the apocalypse approaching and us soon to be all hands on deck, taking even more time away from this hypothetical project, at least we'll have that progress done, at least we'll know beforehand what is possible, as opposed to committing to something now and doing everything but confirming we can actually finish it. Fact is, we can't commit to anything without a vote, and going forward doing the sub-parts of research for something is likely to get people angry. Hell, it's not likely, but it's not impossible that the Greedy One's Heart isn't super ideal for a golem.

For all we know there is something people would want more. Better to do step one than step 3-9 and than doing step 1: finding out what is possible at the basest level.

 

[Abhishekam]

About those Wutroth seeds though. While it's nice to have a collection of them in our hold, for juuust in case if anything happened to the wild forest one... I do wonder whether it's possible for these seeds to grow in the south, too?

I mean, I dunno if we would or would not be willing to sell some seeds to the south. But. If the main concern was "It's good we gathered some seeds; because that way, if anything happened to the forest, at least we'd have some samples in our Karak" then... spreading them to other holds would do even more to keep them from being endangered or risked.

And, heck, right now I don't think we have an Underway passage to Kraka Drakk, right? ((Though amusingly enough, apparently there'd be one to Karag Dum, which is further to the north than the Norscan Dwarfs even. It's just Karag Dum was to the east, and more directly north along the rough line of the Karaz Ankor. But who knows if Karag Dum even exists yet. Does it?))

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That all sounds like actions for the Dawi Woodcrafters guild. Those guys traditionally took care of Wutroth cultivation and maintenance.

I'll settle for overengineering Camoflage and fallback defenses for a Magic Forest.

 

[BungieONI]

About those Wutroth seeds though. While it's nice to have a collection of them in our hold, for juuust in case if anything happened to the wild forest one... I do wonder whether it's possible for these seeds to grow in the south, too?

I mean, I dunno if we would or would not be willing to sell some seeds to the south. But. If the main concern was "It's good we gathered some seeds; because that way, if anything happened to the forest, at least we'd have some samples in our Karak" then... spreading them to other holds would do even more to keep them from being endangered or risked.

And, heck, right now I don't think we have an Underway passage to Kraka Drakk, right? ((Though amusingly enough, apparently there'd be one to Karag Dum, which is further to the north than the Norscan Dwarfs even. It's just Karag Dum was to the east, and more directly north along the rough line of the Karaz Ankor. But who knows if Karag Dum even exists yet. Does it?))

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Wutroth grows on mountain peaks pretty much exclusively. So maybe.

And that is absolutely fine. Putting aside I'm dubious on the value of Ymir in terms of cost effectiveness with the apocalypse approaching, at least we'll have that progress done, at least we'll know beforehand what is possible, as opposed to committing to something now and doing everything but confirming we can actually finish it. Fact is, we can't commit to anything without a vote, and going forward doing the sub-parts of research for something is likely to get people angry. Hell, it's not likely, but it's not impossible that the Greedy One's Heart isn't super ideal for a golem.

For all we know there is something people would want more. Better to do step one than step 3-9 and than doing step 1: finding out what is possible at the basest level.

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Right exactly! Also my edit about lives there is important as well to this.

You know what? Next turn. 3 actions on Heart Research action and one on looking up another place or requesting the engineers guild to use the new super would and pure Gromril to make a uber bolt thrower to Master Rune. Get it done, get a list and requirements.

I'm comfortable with the defenses for now so let's get some research done fast.

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I'm... well, personally not. Specifically our Throng isn't particularly well equipped, compared to what they could be. Our personal Hold defenses are plausibly sufficient and @Derpmind raised an excellent point last vote about the brunt of the Daemon wave coming down on our sister holds because they are weaker. Daemons love suffering, so we're going to have to go out there to beat them off a Hold more than once before this is over. Similar reasoning behind the Greater Warmachine. We need more offensive assets. Our turtle shell needs some spikes.

So I think we need to rune up the Clan Elite of the Throng, as someone else suggested after I made my really ambitious Runic Army suggestion. Speaking of which, @soulcake, here's a reduced form of my Runic Army suggestion:

[Simple] Write in, Runic Clans: Well, you've given be-runed equipment to the King's guards and their Clans are brimming with pride over the glorious armor their Longbeards have received. But why stop there? Go to the King with a proposal to give gromril arms and armor to the veteran elite of every clan, their Longbeards and elders, that you and your fellow Runesmiths will then strike Runes upon.

That should be easier to achieve, and still meaningful, instead of trying to rune the entire Throng to a dwarf.

 

[Abhishekam]

[Simple] Write in, Runic Clans: Well, you've given be-runed equipment to the King's guards and their Clans are brimming with pride over the glorious armor their Longbeards have received. But why stop there? Go to the King with a proposal to give gromril arms and armor to the veteran elite of every clan, their Longbeards and elders that you and your fellow Runesmiths will then Rune.

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I'd be on board. But that's not a Simple request. I'd call it Difficult just because of Favours and actions something like that would cost. That said. I'd vote for it.

Also can we add a Banner Write In too? The Ancestor Banner I had the idea for? Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grungi, Rune of Grimnir? I'd like one with Mastwr Rune of Grungi, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grimnir too. Just to see what they do.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

That should be easier to achieve, and still meaningful, instead of trying to rune the entire Throng to a dwarf.

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Hmm, the idea of becoming a centerpiece around which the the runesmiths act would be interesting. We know there is already some degree of "since so and so is also involved, it's less actions than if just you", so I'm not sure how much micromanaging that would entail on soulcake's part.

Right exactly! Also my edit about lives there is important as well to this.

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So we're on the same page that there's no loss and potential benefit from researching the heart, if not necessarily immediately making something?

 

[BungieONI]

Hmm, the idea of becoming a centerpiece around which the the runesmiths act would be interesting. We know there is already some degree of "since so and so is also involved, it's less actions than if just you", so I'm not sure how much micromanaging that would entail on soulcake's part.


So we're on the same page that there's no loss and potential benefit from researching the heart, if not necessarily immediately making something?

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Yeah, I'm pretty interested in making Snorri a locus of the Runesmiths Guild in Kraka Drakk and that's just mostly because by dint of him being the oldest and the only mentioned Runelord he's kinda traditionally in charge in many ways. There's also that whole thing where Runesmiths moving to the hold give him a visit out of respect.

Yep! I'm like, very disinclined to actually make anything with it right now, but researching it? If we're spending one or two actions on researching it, not a problem to me. (This is just because I want to get more defense stuff done, ala the Runic Clans thing)

I'd be on board. But that's not a Simple request. I'd call it Difficult just because of Favours and actions something like that would cost. That said. I'd vote for it.

Also can we add a Banner Write In too? The Ancestor Banner I had the idea for? Master Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grungi, Rune of Grimnir? I'd like one with Mastwr Rune of Grungi, Rune of Valaya, Rune of Grimnir too. Just to see what they do.

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You're right, it might very well be Difficult. That's up to Soulcake to adjudicate I think.

As for the banner one yeah sure!

[Difficult] Write in, A Banner Of Ancestors: Gazing upon the Ancestor statues which loom in your Murder Maze has given you inspiration to make a banner dedicated to the Ancestors. Images of engraved plates of Pure Gromril and a banner pole of Silver Wutroth fill your mind as you consider which runes would best fit such a dedication Banner. You can gift it to the King and the Hold when its done.

@soulcake, another one.

 

[Reynal]

Honestly I think some research right now would be a good idea. Our mass-production capabilities mean we're pretty much uniquely suited to doing a full crash production once we start seeing enough of an uptick in attacks that it's needed, and every bit of research we do tends to make those actual productions better. At least figuring out what we can do with our new shiny material makes sense, especially if it ends up giving us a small boost to everything we make with it like our gromil research did.

 

[BungieONI]

Honestly I think some research right now would be a good idea. Our mass-production capabilities mean we're pretty much uniquely suited to doing a full crash production once we start seeing enough of an uptick in attacks that it's needed, and every bit of research we do tends to make those actual productions better. At least figuring out what we can do with our new shiny material makes sense, especially if it ends up giving us a small boost to everything we make with it like our gromil research did.

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Here's the deal with that though. Doing research above three or so actions takes a lot away from making sure our army has good warmachines and better arms and armor than they do now. Without better stabbing implements we're in for a rougher time than is really necessary to suffer.

Ergo, make use of our traits and do two actions of research on something. Or one action installments over a couple of turns.

 

[Mount. Elements]

So I think we need to rune up the Clan Elite of the Throng, as someone else suggested after I made my really ambitious Runic Army suggestion. Speaking of which, @soulcake, here's a reduced form of my Runic Army suggestion:

[Simple] Write in, Runic Clans: Well, you've given be-runed equipment to the King's guards and their Clans are brimming with pride over the glorious armor their Longbeards have received. But why stop there? Go to the King with a proposal to give gromril arms and armor to the veteran elite of every clan, their Longbeards and elders, that you and your fellow Runesmiths will then strike Runes upon.

That should be easier to achieve, and still meaningful, instead of trying to rune the entire Throng to a dwarf.

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My worry about this is that there was just a ceremony presenting the King's Guard their special armor that they were honored to receive. If we give the armor to others as well, it puts them on par with the King's Guard, which makes the King's Guard seem less special and/or that we didn't give the King's Guard anything particularly amazing. While I'd like to increase the armies' capabilities, I think we should take the politics of it into account.

 

[jwolfe_beta]

Emphasis on shoddy by the way, goodness you don't even have topographical data worth the name on this thing. Only twelve colours to denote elevation change? And not even a distance ratio! Master Yorri must be testing you, there's no other reason for this.

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Or Yorri only had twelve different colors to work with.

This unique subspecies grows only in this one place and is valued for its almost Gromril-like sheen and higher toughness.

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You know, it's entirely possible that the sheen is actually Gromril-based. Wutroth is noted to grow dense wood and very thick bark which is constantly getting worn away by mountain winds. And there are trees IRL that are very good at absorbing metals from the soil. So this stand of Wutroth could be growing over a Gromril desposit and the tree absorb the metal.

So long as we get a good stockpile of seeds from the Forrest in time, even if the Demons mow them down, we can just replant them later.

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Well it's noted that we have samples and seeds but do dwarfs even grow Wutroth? I mean it would make sense if so I'd think that the guilds would have brought seeds etc with them to the new Hold.

 

[Harried]

Regarding the special wutroth trees, I'm worried somewhat about taking lots of seeds and saplings and letting them lie while the incursion happenes, but then we won't be able to plant them again because we didn't study the location they were, and can't do so because the demons uprooted them all and salted the ground they were at with chaos, destroying whatever allowed them to grow there.