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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Ok, thinking about combos for the King's panalopy I think I've come up with a one that would work well. Rather than the theme of fire I'm thinking of the theme of meteors, there are three key parts to a meteor's fall: the fall, the impact and the explosion. Right now the Axe covers the power of the impact, the cloak creates the flaming explosion so a synergistic talisman would provide the fall element:

Master Rune of Wandering
Rune of Impact
Rune of Impact

MWandering provides the speed and ability to traverse terrain allowing the wearer to streak toward their goal like a meteor. Dual impacts turn that speed into a unstoppable charge the dwarf in question becoming an unstoppable ball of living adamant barreling down on the enemy. There is the question of the form the talisman takes, I believe impact is normally put on the legs so it might need to be a pair of boots.

The overall hope for the set bonus would be that the effect of each piece is further boosted by the other two pieces the Trollslayer hitting and exploding with greater force and more flame, pyrestrike gaining more force to the explosion the talisman surrounded the user in super heated fire as they charge.
 
I'd still go with Grimnir + Grungni + Brotherhood. It seems like a very thematic combination of the two brother gods who lead the dwarves in war and in peace. A Dwarven King has to learn to embody both their natures to be great, making it ideal for an heir who needs to grow into their role. The Rune of Brotherhood is all about skill and knowledge transfer, and I'd hope that it would help the wearer of the talisman partake of the Ancestor's abilities as well as their companions'.

Wandering seems anti-thematic for the King of a dwarven hold. Dwarves aren't steppe nomads, so their Kings shouldn't be wanderers.
 
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How about

MWandering
Impact
Breaking


This way, we still get the wrecking ball, but with a focus on Breaking. On an Army v Army battle, the role of the bearer would then be to bulldoze past defenses and end the threat asap. Also this leans on the idea of using his skill in killing things to lead.
 
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Snorri gives no shit to politics. So if MWandering is suitable for the King due to the Meteor thing, then he'll make it. Also, Otrek needs a Spellbreaking, I suppose. So.

MWandering, Spellbreaking, Impact.
 
Ok, thinking about combos for the King's panalopy I think I've come up with a one that would work well. Rather than the theme of fire I'm thinking of the theme of meteors, there are three key parts to a meteor's fall: the fall, the impact and the explosion. Right now the Axe covers the power of the impact, the cloak creates the flaming explosion so a synergistic talisman would provide the fall element:

Master Rune of Wandering
Rune of Impact
Rune of Impact

MWandering provides the speed and ability to traverse terrain allowing the wearer to streak toward their goal like a meteor. Dual impacts turn that speed into a unstoppable charge the dwarf in question becoming an unstoppable ball of living adamant barreling down on the enemy. There is the question of the form the talisman takes, I believe impact is normally put on the legs so it might need to be a pair of boots.

The overall hope for the set bonus would be that the effect of each piece is further boosted by the other two pieces the Trollslayer hitting and exploding with greater force and more flame, pyrestrike gaining more force to the explosion the talisman surrounded the user in super heated fire as they charge.
Can't be boots since the armors are complete with boots and such. It also doesn't matter that much what a talisman looks like.
 
How about

MWandering
Spellbreaking
Breaking

this way, it becomes less of a bulldoze and more of a way to take advantage of dawi warfare being defense focused. Grind the enemy and break them down regardless of if they are magical or mundane.
 
Don't know what this means. Do you mean reusing a combo you already created? The Rule of Pride, even the lax version you follow, doesn't care if some other Runesmith's done the combo. Only if you have.
Oh, I thought the Rule of Pride also meant just copying the work of another Runesmith was verboten, to the extent of even "don't use the same runes."
 
Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact, Rune of Grimnir - Grimnirzan
Like an avalanche, like the very stars that fall from the firmament, Valiant Grimnir moves unhindered, all the better to crush His foes to paste.
 
Can't be boots since the armors are complete with boots and such. It also doesn't matter that much what a talisman looks like.
That was why I brought it up as an issue. IIRC impacts effect depends on the limb it's placed on which is why I was a little worried.

Snorri gives no shit to politics. So if MWandering is suitable for the King due to the Meteor thing, then he'll make it. Also, Otrek needs a Spellbreaking, I suppose. So.

MWandering, Spellbreaking, Impact.
I would be worried about diluting the meaning by just throwing in a spellbreaking, if we don't get a combo on this piece it can't count toward a set bonus. If we really want the king to have more antimagic I'd make a banner for his huskarls.
Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact, Rune of Grimnir - Grimnirzan
Like an avalanche, like the very stars that fall from the firmament, Valiant Grimnir moves unhindered, all the better to crush His foes to paste.
This I like though, Grimnir guiding his charge to where it will do the most damage.
 
Master Rune of Wandering, Rune of Impact, Rune of Grimnir - Grimnirzan
Like an avalanche, like the very stars that fall from the firmament, Valiant Grimnir moves unhindered, all the better to crush His foes to paste.

Something, something about into Grimmnir's Countercharge, breaking legions of beastmen and relieving what's supposed to be dead regiment of dwarfs
 
That was why I brought it up as an issue. IIRC impacts effect depends on the limb it's placed on which is why I was a little worried.
This hasn't come up as an issue. Snorri's own Impact rune on his original armor set was on the chest piece and it made him into a cannonball the same as what you intend.
 
There seems to be growing pessimism on managing to complete gromril-chains in time. However, the changed favor mechanics, autoprogress last turn and upgraded Odd trait have actually improved our chances.

If we spend all actions and favor next turn (34) we finish 1b and get +7 progress on 2b.
Spending 3 actions for 6 progress the following turn (35) brings us to 13/??? on 2b, which should be enough to finish. The remaining action allows for planning the Gimli commission.

This leaves us with 11 free actions over the next 3 turns. 22 progress + whatever overflow we get out of 2b make the completion of 3b a non issue, even 4b is doable.
 
I must have been misremembering then I thought his was on his legs. An amulet or something would work fine then.
No worries!

Anyway I did some jiggery pokery on chain calculations with these assumptions:

-That we won't get Brotherhood favor for completing part one or any of the other parts, until we can trade the knowledge to the Brotherhood.
-That we spend our remaining Brotherhood favor.
-That chain follows an arc of 8, 12, 12, 8 for the first four parts which I think is what the thread has been working with from what I recall. If it doesn't work out like this, the work below can all be tossed right out the window, and such a reveal would be cause in my book to call it infeasible to do before the commission regardless of what else we take.
-That we won't hit Durin's Consternation at any point during this process.
-Chain part 5 costs the same as the primary line's part 5.
-That part 4b can give us some chain.
-That some crisis doesn't need resolution in the mean time between turn 34 and 39.

Turn 34; 3 actions, 5 favor actions, 11 progress. 1b completed, Zufazul completed, 2b at 5/12.
Turn 35; 2 actions, 3 progress. 2b at 8/12, Gimli commission completed.
Turn 36; 4 actions, 8 progress. 2b completed, 3b at 4/12.
Turn 37; 4 actions, 8 progress. 3b completed, 4b at 0/8.
Turn 38; 4 actions, 8 progress. 4b completed, potential chain?

Turn 34; 4 actions, 5 favor actions, 13 progress. 1b completed, 2b at 7/12.
Turn 35; 2 actions, 3 progress. 2b at 10/12, Gimli commission completed.
Turn 36; 4 actions, 8 progress. 2b completed, 3b at 6/12.
Turn 37; 4 actions, 8 progress. 3b completed, 4b at 2/8.
Turn 38; 4 actions, 8 progress. 4b completed, 5b at 2/??.

Turn 34; 4 actions, 5 favor actions, 13 progress. 1b completed, 2b at 7/12.
Turn 35; 4 actions, 8 progress. 2b completed, 3b at 2/12.
Turn 36; 4 actions, 8 progress. 3b at 10/12.
Turn 37; 4 actions, 8 progress. 3b completed, 4b at 6/8.
Turn 38; 4 actions, 8 progress. 4b completed, 5b at 6/12.

Anyway, what this tells me is that so long as part 2b doesn't take 16 actions or something like part 4b costing 10+, or some other issue in that vein, it is possible to do Gimli commission and the chain up through part 4b. For complete clarity I expect my second assumption to be wrong, and for it to turn out that there is an issue of a major spike in action costs, as the Rune Metal part 1 started with 6 actions but 1b starts with 8.

There are a few conclusions we can draw from here. If it turns out we do get Brotherhood favor as we complete parts of it, then that makes the entire thing much more feasible and gives us more potential flex. If our(?) assumption on the arc of action requirements is valid, we can do Gimli commission, Zufazul and chain but there is absolutely no give whatsoever. Further, the safest/surest way to get chain is to focus down on it entirely. Finally, if we do need part 5b or otherwise it is just not possible at this time to do it before we need to start on the Valayan commission if it has an action cost bigger than 6.

I expect that there are two potential hard stops for us. The least likely one in my view is a variation of Durin's Consternation where some kind of magic is involved, as we mainly have indication that gromril chain is a marker of skill more than anything else. That's how its discussed in the lore and this quest so far.

The more likely one in my estimation is that it turns out we can't complete part 3b on turn 37 due to higher action counts on either part 2b or 3b itself, especially in the first timeline I posted. The second timeline has a give of 2 actions, and the third has 6. More than 6 extra actions between 2b, 3b, and 4b would pretty firmly nail the coffin shut on the possibility of getting part 4 completed before turn 39 and thus the resolution of our potential assumption.

If it turns out there is a major action spike (more than 2) in part 2b, I'm going to advocate for completing it and then pivoting to the Valaya Basket since that has lesser Valayan related runes and we're going to be using a lot of those on the Simple Commission for the clergy come turn 39 and 40. It should pretty reasonably give us a better grasp and repertoire of lesser Valayan runes, which improves our work overall on her clergy.
 
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@soulcake, I have a question regarding the nature and formation development of Combos, both with and without Master Runes. Does the intention of its creator need to matter, as well as the component Runes during creation?

Because looking back at all of the combos, they seem rather thematic for stuff we use them for. Like Trollslayer and the Meteorstrike Combo, or Barak Azamar.
Nope. A Runesmith's personal interpretation and intention means jack diddly to Runes, and its not as if these combos come prepackaged with a name so Snorri has to name it something.
IC, its as Dark As Silver said.

OOC, I am a single person and while I have a list of predetermined combos I myself made up and continue to make up, it doesnt mean that:
A. I won't accept something you made as a combo, even if I never thought of it.
B. I haven't named them all.
Oh, I thought the Rule of Pride also meant just copying the work of another Runesmith was verboten, to the extent of even "don't use the same runes."
IC. The Rule of Pride is already in flux here what with the debate, so what's true by canon times isn't necessarily here. The not copying thing wholesale, given the scale of the Karaz Ankor, isn't tenable like it would be in the days of its Dwindling, and will only grow worse as the Empire becomes larger. The only commonality here in the Rule of Pride's definition is "Don't make Runes you've already made" which is already something that's being hotly debated on and the only real agreement on it is with being a bit more careful/reverent with Master Runes. A real battle over the heart and soul of the Guild and its tenets by practical necessity and the desire to follow tradition.

OOC. From a gameplay perspective, it isn't fun to worry over this stuff, at least not without a lot of work on the QMs part in my opinion. And as a first-time QM trying to make such a rule fun when everything else is sorta there makes it tough. :^)

EDIT: a word.
 
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Continuing my thoughts, chain would be really really nice for the Valayans but if we do not manage to complete it in time there are pretty significant mollifying factors in play. We've already completed hearthstones, and can complete the basket and individually both of those are Important for this commission. Together that is a pretty solid improvement in Snorri's capabilities with runes in Valaya's purview when compared to the start of this century. And then after that is more time to keep poking chain until we complete it, and there's less pressure on the whole deal.

E: Another way to phrase this is that I see the Valaya + Chain opportunity as a special bonus objective that'd be Really Cool to do, but if we don't manage it that does not decrease the value of chain in and of itself.
 
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Given the role of the clerics of Gazul, and that he is on some ways the closest there is to a ranger god, chain may be more important for His Cult's request than Valaya's.
 
Given the role of the clerics of Gazul, and that he is on some ways the closest there is to a ranger god, chain may be more important for His Cult's request than Valaya's.
Yeah but if we can't do chain for the Valayan's we can't do it for him on this current commission either so the point is pretty moot.
 
If we can't get the chain out in time for Valaya I would like to bump up the priority of making a banner for the Hearth Guard.
 
Hmmm. Thoughts on the Gimli commision.

Due to the discussion regarding the gromril chain, I am assuming that people plan to get that before the commision right?

So what if we give Gimli a straight up gromril chainmail? "Just" the chainmail. We don't rune anything else, nothing. Give Gimli a showcase of a skill said to only be possible by the Ancestors.

This of course is assuming that we could even do this at all. But if we could, it would be the most awesome and most understated (I assume not everyone will realize it is gromril at first) mike drop we could do for the future king.

(I really doubt we'd be able to churn out enough gromril chain to outfit both Gazul and Valaya's cults)
 
Hmmm. Thoughts on the Gimli commision.

Due to the discussion regarding the gromril chain, I am assuming that people plan to get that before the commision right?

So what if we give Gimli a straight up gromril chainmail? "Just" the chainmail. We don't rune anything else, nothing. Give Gimli a showcase of a skill said to only be possible by the Ancestors.

This of course is assuming that we could even do this at all. But if we could, it would be the most awesome and most understated (I assume not everyone will realize it is gromril at first) mike drop we could do for the future king.
The chance of us unlocking the chain in time for the gimli commission is very low, the general assumption is we will need to complete at least 3b to start making it. It just doesn't make sense that Grungni is the only one to ever make chain if we can learn it quickly enough for the Gimli commission from a single example of the completed product.
 
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