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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Nicholas Brooks said:
The issue is that each one requires a Master Rune in order to function, and we can't exactly pump those out. I think it may be better to just make 1 more Gronti and make it chock full of all the internal components we can think of as a proof of concept. After that we'll have everything we need to make a Grimnir Gronti
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It's only three Gronti and we can explicitly use the same Master Rune 3 to 4 times within a century/10 turns.

Next I don't want to just pop the Grimnir Gronti out without other Gronti before it as I find that would be weird but moreover there's still a lot of research to do in my opinion before we're ready to build it anyway. The Grungni and Gazul are Gronti we would build in the mean time and as we progress in the research needed for the Grimnir Gronti.
 
Timewarriors said:
The Nemesis Crown problem was that nothing not even gromril could handle the power of Alaric rune and Alaric decided to use warp stone in his madness
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Nianque said:
To the best of my limited knowledge, it went poorly because only warpstone could handle the rune. If we used the tier 5 gromril derivative, then we should be good. If that can't handle the Master Rune of Kingship, then nothing can.
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There seem to be a whole lot more problems with the Nemesis Crown than that. It apparently didn't use the Master Rune of Kingship, but rather the Master Rune of Ages which, while also doing the same thing as the Rune of Kingship, was also supposed to give the wearer control of the fate/destiny of their entire race. If it worked as intended, then one person could control their entire race's ultimate fate. It should be obvious why this... may not be desirable. Especially if someone of a less savory nature were to get their hands on it.

Then there is the warpstone problem, and, to the best of my knowledge, its not clear whether it was the warpstone that altered the rune's outcome (which while possible goes against the theme of consistency that runes operate on) or the rune itself was completely busted to begin with and it was Alric's madness which led him to believe it did what it advertised.
 
Alratan said:
@soulcake has presented the angels dancing on the head of a pin argument about elves and runes, but come on...

It's obviously bullshit. The same line of pretence could be applied to pretend any precedent could be narrowed to non-existence. If any runelord in the conclave actually tried it Snorri should just laugh in their face until they snivelled off. It's fighting talk to minimise any precedent so hard, as Snorri could just turn that same analytical style to so many things the conservatives are bound to have done.
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*raises eyebrow* What's your point/and or what are you trying to convince people of with this post?
 
BungieONI said:
*raises eyebrow* What's your point/and or what are you trying to convince people of with this post?
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Runelord politics is something we may well have to deal with at some point, and this is something that the conservatives seem to be making a really, really weak argument on. If we ever want to undermine their influence, what soulcake has said suggests this is an ideal opportunity to undermine them, if this is the best they can do.
 
UlseDovThur said:
It's only three Gronti and we can explicitly use the same Master Rune 3 to 4 times within a century/10 turns.

Next I don't want to just pop the Grimnir Gronti out without other Gronti before it as I find that would be weird but moreover there's still a lot of research to do in my opinion before we're ready to build it anyway. The Grungni and Gazul are Gronti we would build in the mean time and as we progress in the research needed for the Grimnir Gronti.
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If we build a bunch of ancestor gronti and only one is made of adamant we are making a statement. Why is this better than using normal gronti for testing?
 
Alratan said:
Runelord politics is something we may well have to deal with at some point, and this is something that the conservatives seem to be making a really, really weak argument on. If we ever want to undermine their influence, what soulcake has said suggests this is an ideal opportunity to undermine them, if this is the best they can do.
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I have no particular interest in doing that at this particular time, and certainly not for elves and runes.
 
uh to be clear. this isn't a conservative radical divide. Giving Runecraft to new people is a serious sign of trust to the Guild, and the question of whether Grimnir meant the person or the people is one that's actually valid here, look at humanity and how Dwarfs learned to base it around individuals. The question is bound to come up eventually, because its not like contact is slowing down or being stopped here. It doesn't have to be you who brings it forward though.

Like, I feel as if there's some weird assumption in the thread that this won't ever get dealt with if you don't do something, but that's not accurate is all I wanna and am gonna say.
 
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Alratan said:
@soulcake has presented the angels dancing on the head of a pin argument about elves and runes, but come on...

It's obviously bullshit. The same line of pretence could be applied to pretend any precedent could be narrowed to non-existence. If any runelord in the conclave actually tried it Snorri should just laugh in their face until they snivelled off. It's fighting talk to minimise any precedent so hard, as Snorri could just turn that same analytical style to so many things the conservatives are bound to have done.
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Um...if a GM says it's a bad idea, saying it's obviously bullshit isn't my go to response.
 
Aventur said:
If we build a bunch of ancestor gronti and only one is made of adamant we are making a statement. Why is this better than using normal gronti for testing?
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Did you miss that the Grungni one is made of Lodesteel, a T2 material? It's a progressive improvement over time of the Gronti both in skill and in materials used working to an apex at Grimnir for the Magnum Opus.

And it's not about testing it's about how we've already made one of Valaya and plan one of Grimnir. I already made the Thunder Caller design which is easily adapted into a Grungni one and at that point making one of Gazul just seems appropriate.

I also find the idea that giving a Gronti internal "organs" to be a rather baseless assumption. What would they even do for it? A Gronti has no need to breath or eat. The muscular that The Maiden has is useful as it allows for smoother and more fluid movement.

Note The Mind for Constructs trait The Maiden has, that's for Snorri applying the knowledge to make a more anatomically accurate body for the Gronti so I don't think we even need to micromanage that aspect of the Gronti's when designing them because we have a trait explicitly for it.
 
in response to the bad idea for phoenix lord armor, I was thinking of it more like 40k dreadnought armor, for dwarves that don't want to go to the afterlife immediately, but instead want to keep fighting the good fight or continue their duty like guarding somewhere, with them eventually being released when their armor is broken at some point, thought it was something the followers of gazul might have some interest in
 
tri2 said:
in response to the bad idea for phoenix lord armor, I was thinking of it more like 40k dreadnought armor, for dwarves that don't want to go to the afterlife immediately, but instead want to keep fighting the good fight or continue their duty like guarding somewhere, with them eventually being released when their armor is broken at some point, thought it was something the followers of gazul might have some interest in
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If they're that determined said Dwarf might just come back from the Underearth.
 
@soulcake, I'd like a quick viability assessment for an idea I had for a new Hearth Guard member.


Concept: Hearth Guard Logistician
Inspiration: Walter "Radar" O'Reilly/"Face" Templeton

Ideas:
-Hearthguard is as much disaster response and recovery agency as bodyguard, growing larger, often operating away from 'home base' in and around 'allied' territory - Disaster response is as much about logistical follow through as much as the initial emergency response

-Naturally small dwarf, not a natural fighter, 3 ft tall (whatever is 'normal short' on a dwarf) - went Merchant to get away from family

-From Zorn, got away from family/clan, now they came up to Drakk as well - not exiled from clan just not on speaking terms - from Clan Diamondbeard/Copperhelm (warriors and smiths), very traditional/conservative society - can't fight well, can't mine well, chose to become a Merchant (someone who doesn't make things but only trades them, traditionally most ppl hated them despite/because of how rich they got - did so partially to spite family, partially because it got him OUT)

-Came North with first wave, developed contacts, became massively successful as North grew, focused on intra-North trade and thus has contacts everywhere

-Widowed, five kids, second is a daughter, first one just got married, youngest on his Journeyman trip, wife died {relatively recently, Dum?/natural disaster/monster}, passed on company to first born: empty nest syndrome + grief + no face to get revenge on + estranged from clan = depressed and looking a mission to keep going, hears about Hearth Guard recruiting

-Spent centuries developing contacts among the North - Minor local intelligence/Major has lots of people who owe him a few favors everywhere and can and will get him stuff on short notice

-Personally financially independent from centuries of merchanting - comes with a steel-reinforced wagon with a large swivel mounted crossbow (not siege weapon size, but much larger than what the average dwarf would normally carry eg. HMG crossbow equivalent in portability/weight/size but not rate of fire). Wagon and crossbow are un-runed, simple enough to reproduce, and he is wealthy enough to purchase new ones as necessary

-Probably would take runed armor, banner, and talisman but not a weapon - he's not great in a straight up fight

-When in danger, has traditionally cut loose his goats, used his personal wagon to draw attention/hold the line with the rest of the warriors while his caravan runs then will set on fire and escape if in danger of being encircled (I would have loved to include a 'timed, exploding self-destruct' option if someone can figure out a method to do so that the dwarfs can feasibly do and is culturally acceptable). He's gotten very good at this - between training and experience he hasn't lost a goat this way in over a century
 
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Honestly, right now we want to do more to deal with the research and push more of our work out, rather than embarking on massive doom projects.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Did you miss that the Grungni one is made of Lodesteel, a T2 material? It's a progressive improvement over time of the Gronti both in skill and in materials used working to an apex at Grimnir for the Magnum Opus.

And it's not about testing it's about how we've already made one of Valaya and plan one of Grimnir. I already made the Thunder Caller design which is easily adapted into a Grungni one and at that point making one of Gazul just seems appropriate.

I also find the idea that giving a Gronti internal "organs" to be a rather baseless assumption. What would they even do for it? A Gronti has no need to breath or eat. The muscular that The Maiden has is useful as it allows for smoother and more fluid movement.

Note The Mind for Constructs trait The Maiden has, that's for Snorri applying the knowledge to make a more anatomically accurate body for the Gronti so I don't think we even need to micromanage that aspect of the Gronti's when designing them because we have a trait explicitly for it.
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Building Grimnir in addition to the Maiden does not really say much about our views of the ancestors. This changes when we build a series of ancestor gronti. The quality of the materials, the order in which we build our lineup and the ancestors we leave out, all of it would send a message.
If this is about honouring the ancestors there should be a better way, although I'm not sure what that would be.

As far as internal anatomy is concerned, I have no particular opinion.
 
Aventur said:
Building Grimnir in addition to the Maiden does not really say much about our views of the ancestors. This changes when we build a series of ancestor gronti. The quality of the materials, the order in which we build our lineup and the ancestors we leave out, all of it would send a message.
If this is about honouring the ancestors there should be a better way, although I'm not sure what that would be.

As far as internal anatomy is concerned, I have no particular opinion.
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That's asinine. So, what? We can never make Gronti of Grungni and Gazul because that would be a "statement" based on their quality? By that logic we would be saying that we favor Grimnir over Valaya cause his is so much better, so should the Adamant Gronti not be of Grimnir or any Ancestor Gronti not be better than The Maiden so as to avoid making a "statement"? Yeah, fuck that.

If halfwits want to draw some ridiculous conclusions from how, why, and when we make Gronti of the various Ancestors they can piss the hell off. I have exactly zero interest in limiting ourselves in such a manner.
 
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