Pucflek's argument rests on the notion that Mythical, T5 creations can shape the fate of nations and that if we make a Grimnir Gronti that is T5 it will thus necessarily shape the fate of nations by fact of its existence and power. There's a good bit of support for this, because of a few things:
-An object one tier below T5 was referenced as being relevant in the conflict that eventually led to the shattering of Hashut and shaped the course of the Karaz Ankor from then on. Further, that same banner was important in shaping the events that ensured the North was not cut off during the invasion of the Incursion.
-Barak Azamar is already changing the shape of the Far North, in how it helped Snorri speed run Dum as quickly as he did and the stories it invoked around him and his actions then.
-IIRC Soul has stated that the Runefangs are either T4s or T5s and they shape the fate of the Empire multiple times in canon.
-In fact we can point to Trollslayer as helping to shape the fate of Kraka Drakk and its a T4.
Therefore, there's a good bit of support, particularly from items that are a tier lower than the hypothetical grimnir gronti. The point of the "make a gronti of Grimnir the Warrior" is to make a statement representing Grimnir the Warrior. The more powerful that Gronti is, the stronger the statement. And the idea of the hinduism comparison is ridiculous on the face of it because people already believe in Grimnir the Warrior right now and all it'd really be doing is emphasizing that.
So yes, I agree that the idea criticizing it on the grounds of its motivations is valid, but I don't think your argument is really well structured around what T5s actually mean in the quest.
I'm concerned the argument is a fundamental failure to understand cause and effect supported by selection bias.
High tier items do not shape civilisations because they are high tier. Items that have shaped civilisations are high tier because they tend to need the power.
However Gharal Marz was just one more T5 in the High Kings Arsenal until he gave it to Sigmar. There are dozens if not hundreds of T5 and T4s being produced in this time period which we should know because Snorri is one among dozens of Runelords. As far as I know, Snerras Shining Standard hasn't even gone on campaign let alone shaped a civilisation.
It stands to reason then that the majority of these items never get a chance to shape a civilisation, instead we only hear about the items that did successfully shape a civilisation and not the ones that failed.
Therefore the idea that simply building the Gronti will be enough to shape a civilisation is statistically unlikely to occur as well as making the assumption the unjustified premise, that just building it will be enough to make the correct change the way we want it.
My second concern is that its operating under the belief that we have any way of controlling the outcome.
I'm having a hard time finding stuff as I wasn't part of the quest back then and the planning took place over 10 pages or so, but I don't think the point of Troll slayer was ever to make Otrek king. Instead it was an attempt to make our first T4. And if we hadn't made it at the time that we just happened to be deciding on a king for the hold, and if we hadn't happened to present it to him at that point then it wouldn't have forced the council to crown him anyway.
These civ changing moments are the culmination of lots of factors and just simplifying it down to "Make good item and the more gooder the more the world changes" overlooks that T5s like Gharl Maraz are sitting in the ancestor gods arsenals waiting for their moment while mere T4s are crowning kings.
Additionally as you note, people still worship Grimnir the Warrior, therefore the transition to Grimnir the Slayer is probably a more complicated process that "They didn't make enough statues venerating him", we don't understand why people swapped in the first place so its kinda weird to say that this is the solution.
Even if I granted that this would help secure his image, theres no reason to believe that this would protect that from changing over time like in canon rather than just slowing the change.
And esoteric as this is going the Gronti itself, not armor, so I think it's effects would a bit more all encompassing but without favoring one aspect of the Rune over others. Jack of all rather than master of one.
As for time line nothing specific. After the Valaya and Gazul commissions definitely so Rule of Pride won't be an issue even if we did Grungni, Gazul, and Grimnir back to back. Which I wouldn't want to regardless.
Erm... If we have 4 different occasions when it doesn't produce lightning; Weapon (Sharp), Armour, Talisman, Banner. 1 where it does; weapon (blunt). And 1 where we don't know.
And we have 3 different places where we know it behaves similarly to the rune of stone; Armour, Talisman, Banner.
I think its ridiculous to assume that this will produce even the weakest lightning effect.
Just use a bloody lightning rune.
I'm not pucfleks. I'm TotallyNotEvil.
I never said any of what you are talking about. You just suddenly came at me.
I was describing two different reasons I may agree or disagree with you?
Agreed. However a lot of the arguing I do in this thread is to temper expectations.
Then I laid out two different reasons that a person might believe we should make the gronti as examples of what I'd argue with and what I wouldn't.
I don't know why you decided that the second reason I gave was a description of what I think your position was but it wasn't my intention to proscribe that to you.
