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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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So, with The Maiden being a Gronti depicting Valaya and with us planing a Gronti of Grimnir at this point I think it would be appropriate at this point to plan to make Gronti of Grungni and Gazul.

The Maiden was made with a T1 material, mundane Stone.

The Thunder Caller Gronti can easily be used as the basis of the Grungni one being made of a T2 Material, Lodesteel.

Then Gazul's, The Monster Slayers, Gronti can be made of Pure Gromril, a T3 material. Not sure of it's Runes yet at all.

And Finally there's Grimnirs Gronti made of Adamant, a T4 material.

I think this is a good progression of Gronti.

And speaking of the Thunder Caller I've made a small tweak to its runes. I replaced the Rune of Empowerment on the Gronti itself with a Rune of Grungni as it would make the Gronti more powerful Lightning wise and be appropriate for it now being the Grungni Gronti but also because I replaced the Rune of Spelleating on its Lightning Eater Talisman with a Rune of Empowerment.

The reason I did that was because MGrungni already has the ability to absorb and redirect power, thus making Spelleating redundant, but it doesn't have a way to transfer that power to something that is not itself. The Rune of Empowerment was designed at base to Empower Gronti and will act as the link from the Talisman to the Gronti itself allowing the Gronti to draw power from the Talisman rather than itself.
 
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UlseDovThur said:
So, with The Maiden being a Gronti depicting Valaya and with us planing a Gronti of Grimnir at this point I think it would be appropriate at this point to plan to make Gronti of Grungni and Gazul.

The Maiden was made with a T1 material, mundane Stone.

The Thunder Caller Gronti can easily be used as the basis of the Grungni one being made of a T2 Material, Lodesteel.

Then Gazul's, The Monster Slayers, Gronti can be made of Pure Gromril, a T3 material. Not sure of it's Runes yet at all.

And Finally there's Grimnirs Gronti made of Adamant, a T4 material.

I think this is a good progression of Gronti.

And speaking of the Thunder Caller I've made a small tweak to its runes. I replaced the Rune of Empowerment on the Gronti itself with a Rune of Grungni as it would make the Gronti more powerful Lightning wise and be appropriate for it now being the Grungni Gronti but also because I replaced the Rune of Spelleating on its Lightning Eater Talisman with a Rune of Empowerment.

The reason I did that was because MGrungni already has the ability to absorb and redirect power, thus making Spelleating redundant, but it doesn't have a way to transfer that power to something that is not itself. The Rune of Empowerment was designed at base to Empower Gronti and will act as the link from the Talisman to the Gronti itself allowing the Gronti to draw power from the Talisman rather than itself.
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Whats your timeline on that because thats 4 MRunes in a row.
Grungnis rune only has anything to do with lightning on a hammer because then it draws on the aspect of his famous hammer. In the context of a gronti we'd be looking at something like this
soulcake said:
On armour it's a general defensive buff not too dissimilar to the Rune of Stone though arguably more focused. On Banners and Talismans that protective aspect is drawn to more physical threats because magical/esoteric shenanigans are far more in Thungni and Valaya's ballpark. In his other aspects the Rune of Grungni could equally provide a miner with a bit of luck in prospecting, not a truly large benefit, but noticeable/recordable to the Runesmiths at least.
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So physically defensive and possibly maybe a tiny bit of luck?
 
Jreengus said:
Stormcaller is a generic title for any Brana who can call up a storm:
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Dark as Silver said:
She's a Stormcaller.
A Stormcaller is any Brana with the magical capability to manifest a blizzard like Stormwrath and KoS except smaller.
Its not a rank with responsibilities as best I know.

So less like being a Head Mage and more like if our society was hyper fixated on names and titled anyone who could finish a race in under ____ time: Fast Run Person.
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I was reading that as her being both The Stormcaller of Drongkaraz, and A Stormcaller of Drongkaraz. But I can see how your reading is also possible.
 
Dark as Silver said:
E:

pucfleks argument seems to begin and end with make a gronti so great that it can change the course of civilisations by existing and just stopping there.
Perhaps you can clarify where I'm losing the nuance but...
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Exhibit A:
Dark as Silver said:
"Its a problem that people only see one aspect of Grimnir. I should make it so that they only see the aspect that I see."
You realise that Snorri was acknowledging that his knowledge was just as incomplete.
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Exhibit B:
[ ] [Difficult] Write in, The Valiant Ancestor Golem Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] If a rune you want requires special ingredients that you don't have access to I will alert you. Apply optional Rune Ingredients here. Since returning from the campaign you've been reflecting on Grimnir and how he fought, twin axes flashing. And now, He is gone. Grimnir's departure will be forever seared into the hearts and minds of the Karaz Ankor, of that you have no doubt. But what about His life? Unlike most, you are one of the honored few to have met Him in person, to have spoken with Him. You shall make a Gronti to remind the world and all future generations of His deeds, of His glorious life. The size of a Bloodthirster, a living altar of Pure Gromril clad in everlasting Adamant, eternally guarding the Everlasting Realm.

Exhibit C:
pucflek said:
Well then maybe it would be good for someone to document that properly, so that he won't be remembered only as The Slayer. Which is, you know, what happened in canon. I wonder what is durable enough to survive for seven thousand years. Could it perhaps be adamant statue?
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That is the sum total of my actual belief. I do believe that it could change the way people worship Grimnir yeah. Keep the Valiant in living memory, so that he doesn't suffer the memetic mutation of Warrior Slayer as keenly as he apparently did in canon.

But it has never been my sole argument for building it when i actually tried to lobby for it. Nor one that i said was a surefire way.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
I think at this point I'm just putting my last word out there, I'm clearly not going to convince you.
But for everyone else:
Hypothetically, would you take me seriously if I said that I could convert anyone to Hinduism by painting a picture so beautiful that they just felt compelled to change their lifestyle?

E:

pucfleks argument seems to begin and end with make a gronti so great that it can change the course of civilisations by existing and just stopping there.
Perhaps you can clarify where I'm losing the nuance but...
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Pucflek's argument rests on the notion that Mythical, T5 creations can shape the fate of nations and that if we make a Grimnir Gronti that is T5 it will thus necessarily shape the fate of nations by fact of its existence and power. There's a good bit of support for this, because of a few things:

-An object one tier below T5 was referenced as being relevant in the conflict that eventually led to the shattering of Hashut and shaped the course of the Karaz Ankor from then on. Further, that same banner was important in shaping the events that ensured the North was not cut off during the invasion of the Incursion.

-Barak Azamar is already changing the shape of the Far North, in how it helped Snorri speed run Dum as quickly as he did and the stories it invoked around him and his actions then.

-IIRC Soul has stated that the Runefangs are either T4s or T5s and they shape the fate of the Empire multiple times in canon.

-In fact we can point to Trollslayer as helping to shape the fate of Kraka Drakk and its a T4.

Therefore, there's a good bit of support, particularly from items that are a tier lower than the hypothetical grimnir gronti. The point of the "make a gronti of Grimnir the Warrior" is to make a statement representing Grimnir the Warrior. The more powerful that Gronti is, the stronger the statement. And the idea of the hinduism comparison is ridiculous on the face of it because people already believe in Grimnir the Warrior right now and all it'd really be doing is emphasizing that.

So yes, I agree that the idea criticizing it on the grounds of its motivations is valid, but I don't think your argument is really well structured around what T5s actually mean in the quest.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Whats your timeline on that because thats 4 MRunes in a row.
Grungnis rune only has anything to do with lightning on a hammer because then it draws on the aspect of his famous hammer. In the context of a gronti we'd be looking at something like this

So physically defensive and possibly maybe a tiny bit of luck?
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And esoteric as this is going the Gronti itself, not armor, so I think it's effects would a bit more all encompassing but without favoring one aspect of the Rune over others. Jack of all rather than master of one.

As for time line nothing specific. After the Valaya and Gazul commissions definitely so Rule of Pride won't be an issue even if we did Grungni, Gazul, and Grimnir back to back. Which I wouldn't want to regardless.
 
wonder if we could make something like a phoenix lord 40K where the soul of the dwarf wearing it becomes part of a soul gesalt and adds their ever growing skills and experience into a single body?
 
tri2 said:
wonder if we could make something like a phoenix lord 40K where the soul of the dwarf wearing it becomes part of a soul gesalt and adds their ever growing skills and experience into a single body?
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Its called Master Rune of Kingship, and it adds the wisdom of its previous users to the one currently wearing it. Comissioned by Gotrek Starbreaker i think. We would have to invent it. Also, no souls. Just the wisdom.
 
also as far as i know the whole Slayer deal while existant didn't really becouse that big of a deal untill after the time of Woes. Slayers existed sure but mostly as a fringe cult. the better idea is to help avert the time of woes as much as possible which we alreaddy do
 
_The_Bomb said:
RESEARCH UNLOCKED: A reindeer drawn sleigh....
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Can we add reindeer gronti research? I want my Flying Dwarf Santa as advertised!
If not, maybe we can press-gang persuade some Brana to pull our sleigh and have a legend of our own obviously this is all a joke

Anyways, can we do an equivalent of Hierotitan (A giant combat bot with dawi runesmith corpse inside controlling it) or is it basically asking Gazul or his cult to give us a visit that ends with a broadsword on Snorri's skull?
 
I won't lie, i like the ideal of a T5 Grimnir gronti if only as an homage to what Snorri saw. No political agenda, no attempts at religious interference, just a Dawi seeking to honor one of the 7 Ancestor gods as best he can.
 
UlseDovThur said:
So, with The Maiden being a Gronti depicting Valaya and with us planing a Gronti of Grimnir at this point I think it would be appropriate at this point to plan to make Gronti of Grungni and Gazul.

The Maiden was made with a T1 material, mundane Stone.

The Thunder Caller Gronti can easily be used as the basis of the Grungni one being made of a T2 Material, Lodesteel.

Then Gazul's, The Monster Slayers, Gronti can be made of Pure Gromril, a T3 material. Not sure of it's Runes yet at all.

And Finally there's Grimnirs Gronti made of Adamant, a T4 material.

I think this is a good progression of Gronti.

And speaking of the Thunder Caller I've made a small tweak to its runes. I replaced the Rune of Empowerment on the Gronti itself with a Rune of Grungni as it would make the Gronti more powerful Lightning wise and be appropriate for it now being the Grungni Gronti but also because I replaced the Rune of Spelleating on its Lightning Eater Talisman with a Rune of Empowerment.

The reason I did that was because MGrungni already has the ability to absorb and redirect power, thus making Spelleating redundant, but it doesn't have a way to transfer that power to something that is not itself. The Rune of Empowerment was designed at base to Empower Gronti and will act as the link from the Talisman to the Gronti itself allowing the Gronti to draw power from the Talisman rather than itself.
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The issue is that each one requires a Master Rune in order to function, and we can't exactly pump those out. I think it may be better to just make 1 more Gronti and make it chock full of all the internal components we can think of as a proof of concept. After that we'll have everything we need to make a Grimnir Gronti
 
also as far as i know the whole Slayer deal while existant didn't really becouse that big of a deal untill after the time of Woes. Slayers existed sure but mostly as a fringe cult. the better idea is to help avert the time of woes as much as possible which we alreaddy do
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dude we cant avert it unless we meet malikath and have him make nagorath and his land prosperous as fuck to prove that he is worthy of being the next king we are fucked.
the time of woes has two factors
1 the war with a weakened elves that ended with almost 1/2 of each side killed
2. the diabetic frog doing a ritual to move the tectonic plats causing earthquakes
 
Timewarriors said:
The Nemesis Crown problem was that nothing not even gromril could handle the power of Alaric rune and Alaric decided to use warp stone in his madness
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As it turns out, the closest thing to raw evil that exists in the setting outside Daemon giblets is really, really bad as an idea.

(And this is when someone comes out with things even worse than Warpstone that exist in the setting, because this is Warhammer, Magical Cocaine-ranium isn't the peak)
 
@soulcake has presented the angels dancing on the head of a pin argument about elves and runes, but come on...

It's obviously bullshit. The same line of pretence could be applied to pretend any precedent could be narrowed to non-existence. If any runelord in the conclave actually tried it Snorri should just laugh in their face until they snivelled off. It's fighting talk to minimise any precedent so hard, as Snorri could just turn that same analytical style to so many things the conservatives are bound to have done.

Waking into the conclave of runelords and asking who of them is declaring Grimnir a heretic would solve a multitude of problems. If some of them try to temporaise or make up bullshit you just keep asking the same question until they shut up. It would be very easy not to acknowledge the premise of their attempt to dilute the premise, and just to keep on asking why they think Grimnir is a heretic.
 
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