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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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SOMEONE FINALLY ASKED!

Im in the middle of fluffying the backbone of lore I made to make runelore workable as a mechanic, and that includes runesmith culture and traditions.

As of right now though, just know that for the purposes of this quest, contemporary runesmith culture in the time after the War of Vengeance and Time of Woes is a distortion/different from the runesmith culture of the Golden Age.

Losing a massive amount of your runesmiths and being disconnected from each other does that.

If someone can accurately guess one difference I'll add +5 to a background roll.
Are they willing to write stuff about rune creation down, since they don't have to worry so much about enemies stealing their secrets?
 
SOMEONE FINALLY ASKED!

Im in the middle of fluffying the backbone of lore I made to make runelore workable as a mechanic, and that includes runesmith culture and traditions.

As of right now though, just know that for the purposes of this quest, contemporary runesmith culture in the time after the War of Vengeance and Time of Woes is a distortion/different from the runesmith culture of the Golden Age.

Losing a massive amount of your runesmiths and being disconnected from each other does that.

If someone can accurately guess one difference I'll add +5 to a background roll.

I'm going to go with, being far less jealous of their knowledge as they have not yet been apparently betrayed by outsiders. Thus being more willing to share with each other and with outsiders giving each runesmith new perspectives and new ideas to try and improve.

Also I just thought of question, has the fate of the Dwarfs of Zharr-Naggrund reached us yet?
 
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For reasons beyond the understanding of most, the rule of three doesn't care about the pieces of armour individually, only as a whole set. So you cant have 3 runes on the chestplate, 3 on the gauntlets, etc., etc. The runes take all parts of your panoply into consideration, which is a blessing since technically only the runed part of the armour has to survive to be salvageable but on the other, it stops true shenanigans. This ties into a bunch of fluff I've had to cook up about runelore that I'll be referring too eventually.

But, a runic combo on a talisman, weapon or banner that has synergistic effects with the armour IS possible. Think Runic combos writ large if you will.

TLDR: You can get a set bonus between the armour, the weapon, the talisman and the banner, but armour sets themselves aren't set bonus'd like in Diablo.
Awesome! I already have an idea for a panoply for our local Thane!
 
Also I just thought of question, has the fate of the Dwarfs of Zharr-Naggrund reached us yet?
We're just at the beginning. At minimum, news of that doesn't reach the Karaz Ankor until after the Vortex is constructed, if not millenia later.

Hell, if we did go over there and looked, they might not even be worshiping Hashut yet. Who knows?
 
SOMEONE FINALLY ASKED!

Im in the middle of fluffying the backbone of lore I made to make runelore workable as a mechanic, and that includes runesmith culture and traditions.

As of right now though, just know that for the purposes of this quest, contemporary runesmith culture in the time after the War of Vengeance and Time of Woes is a distortion/different from the runesmith culture of the Golden Age.

Losing a massive amount of your runesmiths and being disconnected from each other does that.

If someone can accurately guess one difference I'll add +5 to a background roll.
Golden age runesmiths have much higher standards for apprentices?
 
We're just at the beginning. At minimum, news of that doesn't reach the Karaz Ankor until after the Vortex is constructed, if not millenia later.

Hell, if we did go over there and looked, they might not even be worshiping Hashut yet. Who knows?

Might be interesting as the lore does not explain exactly how he came to own their souls, apart from them feeling abandoned by the rest of Karaz Ankor. Its criminal how little lore we have on Chaos Dwarfs.
 
Might be interesting as the lore does not explain exactly how he came to own their souls, apart from them feeling abandoned by the rest of Karaz Ankor. Its criminal how little lore we have on Chaos Dwarfs.
One 4th edition army book that was just a couple of White Dwarf articles stapled together and barely included any actual history, and a few paragraphs in a forge-world that don't really add a whole lot new to the lore. Chaos Dwarfs are basically the red-headed stepchild of Warhammer Fantasy. Never had an actual full army book, no support in the RPG I'm aware of, no apparent interest from GW.

To my understanding, sales of models during their original run were poor, so they've never been followed up on. Which is a shame.
 
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One 4th edition army book that was just a couple of White Dwarf articles stapled together and barely included any actual history, and a few paragraphs in a forge-world that don't really add a whole lot new to the lore. Chaos Dwarfs are basically the red-headed stepchild of Warhammer Fantasy. Never had an actual full army book, no support in the RPG I'm aware of, no apparent interest from GW.

To my understanding, sales of models during their original run were poor, so they've never been followed up on. Which is a shame.

I suppose that is part of the fun of quests like this, you can expand on these smaller parts of lore that have unrealised potential. I enjoyed seeing the Chaos Dwarfs and their work in ADODA and hope to see some of them in Divided loyalties. We are in Norsca so we are further from them than the rest of Karaz Ankor, it could happen but would require some build up.
 
[X]Number: 2.
[X]Apprentice: Dolgi Embermane
[X]Apprentice: Fjolla Stokkisdottir

It seems likely to me that the biggest difference is that golden age runesmiths are MUCH more willing to have some of them settle down into cranking out one type of item. Making each and every item unique doesn't make sense unless you are the last of a dying art terrified of backsliding in skill.
 
Here's a map I roughed in to help/sorta answer the chaos dwarf question. As its something of a spoiler Ill use this instead.

Ignore the specifics of geography, this is more to highlight the spread of dwarf holds/colonization.
I won't get too into the specifics of time, but the order of colours is

Blue > Green >Red >Yellow >Black.

If I had to timeline it, you're in the early stages of the yellow phase.

Again, this is more to demonstrate how I imagine the dwarf migration/colonization occurred. So take of that what you will.

As for the runesmith cultural question, a lot of you have sorta picked up on the "Runesmiths were more open" answer, which Ive sorta made apperant when discussing dwarf culture in general. So you're technically correct but not one of the two points I was talking about. Eh, I'll give you the bonus.
 
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Here's a map I roughed in to help/sorta answer the chaos dwarf question. As its something of a spoiler Ill use this instead.

Ignore the specifics of geography, this is more to highlight the spread of dwarf holds/colonization.
I won't get too into the specifics of time, but the order of colours is

Blue > Green >Red >Yellow >Black.

If I had to timeline it, you're in the early stages of the yellow phase.

Again, this is more to demonstrate how I imagine the dwarf migration/colonization occurred. So take of that what you will.

As for the runesmith cultural question, a lot of you have sorta picked up on the "Runesmiths were more open" answer, which Ive sorta made apperant when discussing dwarf culture in general. So you're technically correct but not one of the two points I was talking about. Eh, I'll give you the bonus.
I mean, to take a guess...

Seeing as the Dwarves are also in a steady, obvious and mostly unchallenged, growth cycle rather than what probably feels like a downward spiral from irreclaimable ancient glories there's also probably a much larger demand on the the whole rune... industry, lets call it. New Holds are being founded, which means more places need the sort of large an interesting rune work that few Runesmiths probably get to do in canon's 'modern' age. That increased demand probably translates into larger numbers of Runesmiths as well, Masters see needs and are driven to fulfill them by social pressure but they need help so naturally they seek out apprentices more frequently, which means that there's more competition (as those apprentices become Journeymen and then Masters in their own right over time) for the interesting jobs. Which might mean that even Master Runesmiths would be forced to do more repeat work just to keep in sufficient practice and keep their names out there as being worthy of the sorts of jobs that actually interest them.

A relative glut of Runesmiths leads to more participation of Master Runesmiths at lower levels of work, even though they don't need to do such work because otherwise people are liable to forget them when they're looking for a Runesmith to take on a big job. Whereas in the canon 'future' there's only a small handful of Runesmiths maybe per Hold meaning it's kind of hard to forget them even if they disappear for decades at a time.
 
I mean, to take a guess...

Seeing as the Dwarves are also in a steady, obvious and mostly unchallenged, growth cycle rather than what probably feels like a downward spiral from irreclaimable ancient glories there's also probably a much larger demand on the the whole rune... industry, lets call it. New Holds are being founded, which means more places need the sort of large an interesting rune work that few Runesmiths probably get to do in canon's 'modern' age. That increased demand probably translates into larger numbers of Runesmiths as well, Masters see needs and are driven to fulfill them by social pressure but they need help so naturally they seek out apprentices more frequently, which means that there's more competition (as those apprentices become Journeymen and then Masters in their own right over time) for the interesting jobs. Which might mean that even Master Runesmiths would be forced to do more repeat work just to keep in sufficient practice and keep their names out there as being worthy of the sorts of jobs that actually interest them.

A relative glut of Runesmiths leads to more participation of Master Runesmiths at lower levels of work, even though they don't need to do such work because otherwise people are liable to forget them when they're looking for a Runesmith to take on a big job. Whereas in the canon 'future' there's only a small handful of Runesmiths maybe per Hold meaning it's kind of hard to forget them even if they disappear for decades at a time.
OOOOH you're burning hot. For that wonderfully close and thought out answer, roll 1d3 for me please.
 
Another thought: with this being essentially the golden age of runesmithing, the dwarves aren't stuck hording knowledge or trying desperately to reclaim the wonders of the past. This would be a perfect time for runelore to be expanding, for new discoveries and rune combinations to be being found. New ways to use runes, new places they can be used, with runesmiths (very slowly and careful) pushing back the boundaries of knowledge. Especially seeing as magic is more plentiful and potent at this point in time, so there's more energy going around to fuel more and/or more powerful runes.
 
Im gonna fucking scream.
Is it Grudging time yet?
But more seriously I really enjoy the direction that this is headed in. Reminds me a bit of Glory and Grudges. I didn't get to participate in that quest and the other dwarf quests haven't tickled me in the same way. I can't wait to see how this turns out.
 
I can't wait to see how this turns out.
We get to make a Giant Onion i.e a Dawi Karaz.

Make the enemy cry for every moment they are within our presence. Make them feel the pain, as they have to peel through the defenses one layer at a time.

Until the agony proves too much and the stubbornness and genius of the Dawi prevail and the enemy is sent crying and flying.
 
I mean, to take a guess...

Seeing as the Dwarves are also in a steady, obvious and mostly unchallenged, growth cycle rather than what probably feels like a downward spiral from irreclaimable ancient glories there's also probably a much larger demand on the the whole rune... industry, lets call it. New Holds are being founded, which means more places need the sort of large an interesting rune work that few Runesmiths probably get to do in canon's 'modern' age. That increased demand probably translates into larger numbers of Runesmiths as well, Masters see needs and are driven to fulfill them by social pressure but they need help so naturally they seek out apprentices more frequently, which means that there's more competition (as those apprentices become Journeymen and then Masters in their own right over time) for the interesting jobs. Which might mean that even Master Runesmiths would be forced to do more repeat work just to keep in sufficient practice and keep their names out there as being worthy of the sorts of jobs that actually interest them.

A relative glut of Runesmiths leads to more participation of Master Runesmiths at lower levels of work, even though they don't need to do such work because otherwise people are liable to forget them when they're looking for a Runesmith to take on a big job. Whereas in the canon 'future' there's only a small handful of Runesmiths maybe per Hold meaning it's kind of hard to forget them even if they disappear for decades at a time.
My guess is fairly similar. Due to the increased competition for Runesmithing work, the individual Runesmiths must work harder to stand out from the crowd. As such, I believe that the runesmiths of this era are significantly more likely to perform innovation
 
[Semi Canon]: Imperial Historian Bertholde Orfunmeister's paper on Runesmith Cultural Evolution
SOMEONE FINALLY ASKED!

Im in the middle of fluffying the backbone of lore I made to make runelore workable as a mechanic, and that includes runesmith culture and traditions.

As of right now though, just know that for the purposes of this quest, contemporary runesmith culture in the time after the War of Vengeance and Time of Woes is a distortion/different from the runesmith culture of the Golden Age.

Losing a massive amount of your runesmiths and being disconnected from each other does that.

If someone can accurately guess one difference I'll add +5 to a background roll.
Easier, and more fun, for me to parse the entire surface level culture and then dig into that.

As it stood in the fading age after the War of Vengeance and other catastrophes the Guild of Runesmiths is a priesthood of a mystery cult, a religion restricted to initiates and whose secrets are only available to those initiates. They are isolated mountaintop masters who are frantically practicing their craft with three general priorities it seems like: repair what they can of the Karak runeworks, build powerful masterworks that can turn the tide of endless enemies, and recover lost runework. The Masters have to be The Very Best They Can Be, and shoulder the load of many.

Thus the Rule of Pride dovetails neatly from those restrictions. A Master runesmith can't, they *cannot* spend time churming out endless numbers of lesser works when they are the only dwarfs who can maintain the most important and ancient runeworks, build the most powerful masterworks that can turn entire battles, and who might remember where some ancient scrap of lore might potentially be.

They have also suffered crippling, absolutely horrendous loss of life, to the point where many many masters and their knowledge is just gone. Completely. And so you have Holds where there might once have been entire families of runesmiths but now there's one. Maybe two. Maybe none. And so they are dealing with a utter dearth of potential apprentices because the blood is far less prevalent than before, and they have to find worthy apprentices to pass on their knowledge. But many can't, further cementing the issue that each Master has to be The Very Best.

What does this say? They are desperate, while the runesmiths of Snorri's time are not. In the fading age you don't hear about master runelords making toys. Or pretty clothing. They do not make idle work. Snorri, clearly does. That's one huge difference. There are enough of Snorri's contemporaries and things are calm enough that they can perform idle work. The runesmiths like Snorri have time. The runesmiths of the fading age have no time, not even enough to maintain the integrity of the Karaks and make masterworks and recover lost knowledge.

But right now runesmiths can have those one weird drunken ideas that runesmiths of the fading age might discard because they have no time, and fiddle with them till something interesting falls into their lap. Or make several thousand toys. Or weave pretty dresses.

And their pool of apprentice candidates is larger. The golden age runesmiths can afford multiple apprentices, they have a confidence that they can find someone to pass their knowledge to. The runesmiths of the fading age, don't.



On lighter topics, how long is Snorri's beard in dwarf body lengths? This is very important :V
 
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On lighter topics, how long is Snorri's beard in dwarf body lengths? This is very important :V
Man oh man this is a fantastic take on the contemporary runesmith's dilemma. You're getting parts down pat for sure, you and cuttlefish both have gotten pieces of the puzzle, but if this makes sense, you're putting them together in different, but not incorrect ways ya know?

Snorri's beard is exactly five and a third dwarf lengths long. Only now in his fifth century has the hair started to slow down, which is a shame.

You guys already got the bonus but I can put another plus 5 on the next set of background rolls I do. Also, I might as well give a hint, though in comparison to your analysis it may seem a bit mundane.

Think of it like this. There is an ever-increasing demand for your work, but your profession is centred around very foundational cultural and religious traditions that basically demand you treat your work as an art form because it's a very literal divine gift. So your stuck thinking, Im supposed to use this to help my people, but at the same time, I'm supposed to strive to be a craftsman and artisan par excellence. There aren't that many of you(relatively speaking), but runes are now so useful that your society as it is right now basically needs you to crank out runes like a factory produces nails. The issue of the Rule of Pride is now far less literal because practicality demands you make those runes and you dont have the excuse of there not being enough of you to do so, but doing so means you basically treat something sacred as a commodity to be done on demand.

This is compounded by the fact that the literal person who gave you that gift is active and so are his students. So now its an even bigger issue. A battle for the very soul of your profession.

Its a very dwarfen problem, "Dont treat my labour like its less than it actually is."
 
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