Walpurgisnight will also depend on what more we can do until then. In our current state i gues we could win, likely by simply zooming around in the sky and keep tearing away at it. Still made of grief after all. With homuras help (for timestops) it would likely be reasonably easy to win like that, unless walpurgis demostrates something we havent seen before. Allies either incorporated or if neessry told to stay the fuck away, no need to risk needless deaths. Still cant get reckless.

If we can do more with witches until then, then, well we will sure have ideas for a specimen as fine as this...

Where is that "how sabrina looks at hildegard" pic?
 
Infinite Timestop + Infinite Tiro Finale.

With Homura and a single offensive meguca at out side, against an opponent we want to kill? Unless they can somehow counter a timestop, they're dead.
Remember the healthy dose of jack shit that Homura's infinite explosive's works did to Wally?

Also, from a meta perspective, I doubt Firn will make something as major as Walpurgisnacht something we can just roflstomp and call it a day.
 
Remember the healthy dose of jack shit that Homura's infinite explosive's works did to Wally?

Also, from a meta perspective, I doubt Firn will make something as major as Walpurgisnacht something we can just roflstomp and call it a day.

Oriko already confirmed Walpurgis's defeat. Back at our interrogation. She's not worried about Walpurgis.
 
Remember the healthy dose of jack shit that Homura's infinite explosive's works did to Wally?

Also, from a meta perspective, I doubt Firn will make something as major as Walpurgisnacht something we can just roflstomp and call it a day.
I think it's been largely speculated that Walmart and other strong witches have a resistance to mundane attacks. Beside, we can deploy a literally infinite amount of firepower on it within a single instant, so long as we have Homura and a single meguca with a ranged attack. And we can repeat this second by second for as long as we need.

Basically: unless Walmart somehow develops the ability counter a timestop, it's impossible- and I mean that literally- for it to pose a threat to us as a group. Against Sabrian alone, sure. Againat Sabrina + her allies, no.
 
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It's been a while, but IIRC she only said Wally was defeated, right? Nothing there about the list of likely casualties/fatalities.
Timestop. Get up close. Unload five thousand Tiro Finale at it. Get out range and cancel timestop.

Is it going to be able to survive that? And if it can, can it survive the same thing every few seconds?
 
Oriko already confirmed Walpurgis's defeat. Back at our interrogation. She's not worried about Walpurgis.
Forgot about that, but still: let's not take our victory over Wally as a given. Did she say that no- and I'm just shadowrunning here- new, pink-haired contractees were involved? I'm not saying we're going to lose, but we should prep for a big fight anyway, given whatever else is supposed to pose a threat to us.
Also, I don't see why intimidation isn't something we can do. :confused:
As I said, they've already been shown to get into stupid fights for stupid reasons, and we don't want to have to fight them again. I'm not saying we give them a slap on the wrist and send them on their way, but we do need to restrain ourselves from being outright vengeful; it'll only cause problems later.
 
As I said, they've already been shown to get into stupid fights for stupid reasons, and we don't want to have to fight them again. I'm not saying we give them a slap on the wrist and send them on their way, but we do need to restrain ourselves from being outright vengeful; it'll only cause problems later.
Intimidation and vengefulness aren't the same thing. I do agree with you- we shouldn't do anything simply because they've hurt us, Mami, Kirika, and the UG- but if it helps we can't automatically rule out using intimidation against them. It shouldn't be a first resort, but it might be useful under some circumstances.
 
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[X] Onmur.

What I say below hinges on the number of grief seeds Sendai actually has, the number has to be large due to Akiko's hiring practices and the ruinous rates they charge for Rin's healing. If Akiko was burning seeds like crazy to sate meguca godzilla or something and doesn't have a big stockpile then it can be disregarded. But considering her mantra I'd eat my hat if she wasn't hoarding like mad.
Why are we seriously suggesting reparations of some sort? That sounds like a great way to torpedo any settlement long term before it even begins. The true issue is how they share the city together. Anything else is just appeasing one of the groups. That is counterproductive, and our solution should not be punitive
Because significant portions of their stockpile came from UG. I'm not saying hand everything over, but paying back a decent portion like 30-40% of their surplus should be on the table.

UG: we have 3 seeds
Sendai: we have 200 seeds

Not changing this dynamic is a dumb move, give UG some seeds back so it stabilises their situation but not enough to fulfil their revenge fantasies. Take from Sendai a decent amount so it feels like a punishment, but not enough to endanger them and still leaving them with a stockpile most meguca would dream of. Not like they can't make more seeds hand over fist if they somehow manage to keep Rin.
It will FEEL like a punitive measure. That's the whole issue. It doesn't matter how "fair" the measures we are imposing actually are, if one side feels that they are getting unfairly targeted, then all we are doing is waving our giant grief stick in their faces daring them to make a move against us while we kick them in the shins and spit in their face.
They will remember that no laws govern this conflict, we're fully entitled to shatter their gems and take everything, no government is going to stop us. Hell, we could just take all their seeds tell them to gtfo of our city and hand the area over to UG as our vassals. The only reason we are not is due to our morals and the negative effects on our friends, reputation, long-term plans etc. If they keep two thirds of their grief seed stockpile then they'll be counting themselves lucky, not moaning "we only have 140 grief seeds left". The only one who'll complain is Akiko who is quite frankly beyond reasoning with at present time.

This is not a post-WW1 scenario where Germany was forced to pay for a the war that ended before reaching their borders. This is a post-WW2 scenario where Germany was burnt to the ground then forced to pay 40 years of reparations. We have decisively beaten them, they'll be grateful to be alive and keeping most of what they have.

Now, I'm not suggesting anything extreme like hand all their seeds over to UG or make them pay a tax like they forced on their victims. This is just taking some of their surplus and giving it back to the people they took it from. Its not even going to be full repayment, just partial compensation like the last 4 months worth of "taxes" UG had to pay.
I know why it seems that demanding punitive repayments seems appealing, especially in light of what they've done, but all it will do is breed resentment.
Not doing that will make Sabrina look like a complete idiot, they violated her truce and attacked during negotiations without a single warning. If you don't extract any form of punitive measures for breaking a mutually agreed ceasefire without warning then you're encouraging that behaviour. What I described above could be presented as a fine for this kind of behaviour. All the Sendai girls are complicit in this. I don't care about the ancient history like Sendai taking the city from UG two years ago and making them pay seeds to stay, I care that they pissed on Sabrina's word that there would be no fighting during negotiations. SWL's proposal sounds good, but I'd only support it if it happened in addition to paying a decent lump sum of seeds from their huge stockpile. There needs to be some kind of hard slap on the wrist for doing this. Not what appears to be a reward.

Now, on the grief box issue I don't really have much of a strong opinion on it. Though I could be slightly leaning towards carrying the bodies around on a platform because leaving them unattended sounds like an unwise move. What if one of the more vengeful UG girls comes back and tries to crush a Sendai rival's body to paste during SAR? Kinda hard for even Rin to restore a red smear and I can see one of the UG girls doing it if a Sendai girl was a particularly harsh tax collector that directly led to a death of the friend. On the platform we could keep an eye on them. Though I understand the concerns for not having it.
 
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Intimidation and vengefulness aren't the same thing. I do agree with you- we shouldn't do anything simply because they've hurt us, Mami, Kirika, and the UG- but if it helps we can't automatically rule out using intimidation against them.
I think I've made myself unclear in this matter: I'm saying that we can't use intimidation alone and expect that to work long-term. Hopefully we use some implied intimidation to keep them from getting out of line until they settle down and come to the realization that they're better off with us than against us. That or we just somehow make friends with them.
 
I think I've made myself unclear in this matter: I'm saying that we can't use intimidation alone and expect that to work long-term. Hopefully we use some implied intimidation to keep them from getting out of line until they settle down and come to the realization that they're better off with us than against us. That or we just somehow make friends with them.
Yeah, that is more clear, and I agree with you.
 
We could enforce a swap where 3 full seeds are traded for one empty seed for Sendai, possibly held by us for a short time, and two empty seeds for the UG, until they have a reasonable stockpile, for example five seeds per girl. And we insist on starting with the full seeds used in the war.

It's a way of dressing up taking their seeds, yes, but does so in a way that exploits our powers so that everyone gains something.

Regardless of whether or not we take seeds from Sendai now, I believe we should impose this on future transactions with Sendai and Fukushima. Maybe a discount/waive it for Fukushima if they decide to play nice/be on retainer/something.

Here's an extension on the Seed Swap, I'd like to call the Seed Service Charge:
I propose continuing to levy the "service charge" on future transactions even after UG gets their reasonable stockpile. This "Seeds for Sad Meguca" fund will be quite useful mainly to help newbies and other meguca who do not have a seed stockpile. I'm thinking something like in those grocery stores where a percent of your money goes to charity. Possibly inform the "customers" about it to somewhat make them feel better about their "donation". Hm, actually, why not continue to make Gem cleansing to be free, but start levying the service charge on transactions with other meguca? It doesn't really cost them anything, and it will partially assuage their paranoia. I mean, "Something totally awesome and important for free? Wait, this is fishy. What's the catch?" versus "Something awesome and totally important for cheap? Bargain!"

The SSM fund may also be useful for giving seeds as gifts while opening diplomatic relations with other meguca groups. Hm, you know, if Sabrina was in the Meguca Micro Empire quest, I figure a gift of Cubes while recruiting would definitely go a long way to convincing the girls to join the Empire.

And that's all I got for now.
 
We've slipped up on that in the thread, but I don't think that's happened out loud yet. Unless Kirika is psychic...?
Maybe she's just upgraded our relationship in her head? She is the resident Shipper on Deck.

@Firnagzen Is Kirika calling Mami our oujo last update a typo or a thing she/you did on purpose?
"Heeeeeey," Kirika chirps at you, turning to direct a grin at you. "You and your oujo decided what to do with Miss Wild Casey here?"
 
Maybe she's just upgraded our relationship in her head? She is the resident Shipper on Deck.

@Firnagzen Is Kirika calling Mami our oujo last update a typo or a thing she/you did on purpose?
As someone who doesn't speak Japanese, can this be clarified? What's the difference between oujo and ojou?
 
To put it simply, she's calling Mami our girlfriend. I don't even see why you would think that's a typo; Kirika's been teasing Sabrina over that since we picked her up to start this op.
 
To put it simply, she's calling Mami our girlfriend. I don't even see why you would think that's a typo; Kirika's been teasing Sabrina over that since we picked her up to start this op.
I ask because she's been consistently using "ojou" up until now. They're different words. I just wanna know if it was intentional on Firn's part.
 
Re: Walmart.

My headcanon on why Homura couldn't defeat him is because of the hope/despair balance mechanic and the general symbolism of her magic. She's going back to protect Madoka, and is denying everyone a sense of agency and a say in shaping their future, and all of this is a manifestation of her inability to move on is LITERALLY freezing her time.

Add the weird karma mechanics her time travel causes, and how the future refuses to change, and the answer is obvious.

Homura can't beat Walpurgis because she couldn't the first time. She wished to protect Madoka. She didn't wish to save her, or change her future. Whenever you reach 12 on a clock, it always goes back to one. Homura cannot advance. She froze herself at the moment that defines her now as Homura Akemi, and that Homura cannot change her original failure.

That's why Madoka, the figure whose karma changes with each timeline, was always necessary to turn the tides. But now there's us.
 
Re: Walmart.

My headcanon on why Homura couldn't defeat him is because of the hope/despair balance mechanic and the general symbolism of her magic. She's going back to protect Madoka, and is denying everyone a sense of agency and a say in shaping their future, and all of this is a manifestation of her inability to move on is LITERALLY freezing her time.

Add the weird karma mechanics her time travel causes, and how the future refuses to change, and the answer is obvious.

Homura can't beat Walpurgis because she couldn't the first time. She wished to protect Madoka. She didn't wish to save her, or change her future. Whenever you reach 12 on a clock, it always goes back to one. Homura cannot advance. She froze herself at the moment that defines her now as Homura Akemi, and that Homura cannot change her original failure.

That's why Madoka, the figure whose karma changes with each timeline, was always necessary to turn the tides. But now there's us.
I still prefer the idea that magic confers a resistance to non-magical attacks, but that is an interesting theory.
 
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