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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We could enforce a swap where 3 full seeds are traded for one empty seed for Sendai, possibly held by us for a short time, and two empty seeds for the UG, until they have a reasonable stockpile, for example five seeds per girl. And we insist on starting with the full seeds used in the war.

It's a way of dressing up taking their seeds, yes, but does so in a way that exploits our powers so that everyone gains something.
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You know... that's the smartest thing I've heard all day.


Brilliant.
 
Cannongerbil said:
Why are we bothering to leave the bodies back there so we have to go out of our way to make return trips when we can, oh, I don't know, bring them with us?
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Because with grief speed, we have no reason not to, and it doesn't add pointless awkwardness? Because Sakura'd be less inclined to try something stupid if the bodies and gems were in separate locations?

Or we could stack the bodies in a grief jet and drag them all over the city for no real reason, because that makes perfect sense and helps us in any way, shape, or form.
 
Ugolino said:
Because with grief speed, we have no reason not to, and it doesn't add pointless awkwardness? Because Sakura'd be less inclined to try something stupid if the bodies and gems were in separate locations?

Or we could stack the bodies in a grief jet and drag them all over the city for no real reason, because that makes perfect sense and helps us in any way, shape, or form.
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It helps to keep an eye on them. I think it unlikely that somebody will snatch up the bodies while we're gone, but why take the chance, small as it is?

Sakura doesn't gain by having the corpses along with us. It'll be easier for her to pull off a crazy plan if the bodies were somewhere we could not reach them faster than she can teleport, like this roof.

We can deal with awkwardness. We can speed things up by having Rin treat the wounded megucas while we're in the air.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We could enforce a swap where 3 full seeds are traded for one empty seed for Sendai, possibly held by us for a short time, and two empty seeds for the UG, until they have a reasonable stockpile, for example five seeds per girl. And we insist on starting with the full seeds used in the war.

It's a way of dressing up taking their seeds, yes, but does so in a way that exploits our powers so that everyone gains something.
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I guess us ending up with lots of grief seeds won't put us in such a bad light, since we don't have use for them, and if we wanted a stockpile for hiring purposes we can point out that we totally wreck witches, so we can get as many seeds as we want.
 
Cannongerbil said:
Ugo, you do realize that going from Points A->B->C is faster than going from points A->B->A->C->A, right?

But, whatever, I've stated my piece. This whole debacle has gone on way too long as it is. Agree to disagree, yeah?
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Yeah, agree to disagree. The Griefmobile looks like it's happening and honestly there's no real harm to any of the current votes if they won anyway.

(Also it'd be A->B->C->A but that's just nitpicking :p)
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We could enforce a swap where 3 full seeds are traded for one empty seed for Sendai, possibly held by us for a short time, and two empty seeds for the UG, until they have a reasonable stockpile, for example five seeds per girl. And we insist on starting with the full seeds used in the war.

It's a way of dressing up taking their seeds, yes, but does so in a way that exploits our powers so that everyone gains something.
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Which still leaves Sendai with a pile of seeds (directly useful in war and readily exchangeable for goons), and UG without an acceptable degree of security. Or access to what they fought, bled and died for.
There should be consequences to what Sendai did. Returning some of what they stole is not a punitive measure, it's the least recompense that should be made.
 
plus, if we don't bother with dragging the bodies, we can just get them by ourselves while the UG work out what they'll get from Aiko to stop her doing it again, rather than dragging the over here for no real reason.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
Which still leaves Sendai with a pile of seeds (directly useful in war and readily exchangeable for goons), and UG without an acceptable degree of security. Or access to what they fought, bled and died for.
There should be consequences to what Sendai did. Returning some of what they stole is not a punitive measure, it's the least recompense that should be made.
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It will FEEL like a punitive measure. That's the whole issue. It doesn't matter how "fair" the measures we are imposing actually are, if one side feels that they are getting unfairly targeted, then all we are doing is waving our giant grief stick in their faces daring them to make a move against us while we kick them in the shins and spit in their face.
 
Cannongerbil said:
It will FEEL like a punitive measure. That's the whole issue. It doesn't matter how "fair" the measures we are imposing actually are, if one side feels that they are getting unfairly targeted, then all we are doing is waving our giant grief stick in their faces daring them to make a move against us while we kick them in the shins and spit in their face.
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I don't think we can avoid that to some degree, though.

The question here is "will UG have problems surviving going forward if Sendai hangs onto their stockpile"?

I don't think they will, so we're probably better off not riling up Sendai and trying to smooth things over with the UG via diplomacy.
 
If nothing else, Sendai did lose a lot of face with Tokyo and the Fukushima groups. Their ability to wage war is going to be seriously crippled.

Also is there any reason why we can't do this swap now?
 
Cannongerbil said:
It will FEEL like a punitive measure. That's the whole issue. It doesn't matter how "fair" the measures we are imposing actually are, if one side feels that they are getting unfairly targeted, then all we are doing is waving our giant grief stick in their faces daring them to make a move against us while we kick them in the shins and spit in their face.
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It is wholly unfair to UG for Sendai to retain all of their stolen seeds. I care about UG wellbeing more than Sendai's pwecious feelings.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
It is wholly unfair to UG for Sendai to retain all of their stolen seeds. I care about UG wellbeing more than Sendai's pwecious feelings.
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Well, you should care about their pwecious feelings, because how they feel about this is going to determine if this arrangement will last longer than the next time we have to take a trip out of town.

It's not like I particularly want to suck up to Sendai, especially after everything they did, but we need to if we want this arrangement to last without our constant oversight.

Incidentally, this is why I pushed so hard for punching Akiko's lights out back then, because that's the last time we'll be able to do anything remotely punitive.
 
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Let's not redo the Treaty of Versailles in magical girl form. Sendai needs to be happy enough with the final arrangement to not restart the war as soon as we're not looking, or else we should've just killed them all from the start, and saved ourselves the headache.
 
Cannongerbil said:
Well, you should care about their pwecious feelings, because how they feel about this is going to determine if this arrangement will last longer than the next time we have to take a trip out of town.
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Ugolino said:
Sendai's feelings don't matter as much as the headache their feelings will make for us down the line...or almost immediately.
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... You are speculating that, faced with total tactical inferiority, loss of seeds leading to inability to hire mercs, a more secure UG, and the promise of cleansings from us if they just lay low, they're going to make some death-or-glory attack on our interests. Yeah, no. That's incredibly dumb.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
Which still leaves Sendai with a pile of seeds (directly useful in war and readily exchangeable for goons), and UG without an acceptable degree of security. Or access to what they fought, bled and died for.
There should be consequences to what Sendai did. Returning some of what they stole is not a punitive measure, it's the least recompense that should be made.
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Consequences and recompense will not fix anything. UG wants their lives back, they don't want to be watching their backs for the rest of their lives. Neither do we, for that matter. And we are literally returning what's been 'stolen', but doing so in a manner that doesn't tax either party.

There have to be at least fifteen seeds used in this war alone. That's a ten seed buffer that the UG didn't have before.

But at the end of the day, what I care about is ending the conflict. Ending the reasons for the conflict. Arranging things so a war like this never reoccurs. Distribution of seeds is only an issue insofar as it promotes other goals. I give zero shits about compensation, justice, and what various parties deserve.

That's not why we're here.
 
aeqnai said:
Let's not redo the Treaty of Versailles in magical girl form. Sendai needs to be happy enough with the final arrangement to not restart the war as soon as we're not looking, or else we should've just killed them all from the start, and saved ourselves the headache.
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The League of Meguca? :p

FlatlineAskari said:
... You are speculating that, faced with total tactical inferiority, loss of seeds leading to inability to hire mercs, a more secure UG, and the promise of cleansings from us if they just lay low, they're going to make some death-or-glory attack on our interests. Yeah, no. That's incredibly dumb.
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Considering that the war just happened at all with Sabrina laying down the law...Yeah, that sounds like something they might do if we botch this.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
... You are speculating that, faced with total tactical inferiority, loss of seeds leading to inability to hire mercs, a more secure UG, and the promise of cleansings from us if they just lay low, they're going to make some death-or-glory attack on our interests. Yeah, no. That's incredibly dumb.
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We said that back when we were offering them infinite grief seed cleansing in return for basically not doing anything. "Oh, with what we're offering them, they'd be pants on head retarded if they won't accept the peace offer."

And they went and started the war anyway, so you'll pardon me if I don't trust them to be smart enough not to make a death or glory attack on us in spite of everything
 
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