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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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FlatlineAskari said:
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You are for making a, and I quote, 'indefinite' commitment.
Both options are business transactions, whether you want to admit it or not. Both are highly favorable for them. But yours is not favorable for us or our agenda, since it immediately loses us any possible leverage. If we make an offer and then add smallprint, it'll hurt our rep a lot more than expecting certain limited in-kind services upfront.
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I'm pretty sure my current vote's for NSMS, which has been updated several times.

Leverage doesn't matter when we're the one with the desirable resource, and we'll ultimately get more out of asking than by trying to brute-force it with a few favors. (Or one favor in this vote's case.)
 
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'I can cleanse your gems and seeds freely, just don't abuse it. I made my wish so I could put an end to... *wave hand around* this.'

'Being a magical girl sucks and I'll help as best I can, just don't go and pull an Akiko.'

Considering that the wish was made with altruistic goals in mind, trying to use it to chisel favors out of people goes against the spirit of it.
 
Ugolino said:
Leverage doesn't matter when we're the one with the desirable resource, and we'll ultimately get more out of asking than by trying to brute-force it with a few favors.
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... The fuck? Of course it matters. If we give away the resource, explicitly without conditions, they will feel no compulsion to do as we ask, because withdrawing our support would, by our own terms, be off the table. Any attempt to retroactively add conditions would harm us.
If we are honest about wanting limited services - 'favors', if you will - in return, their expectations are different.
 
All this discussion had done is convinced me we absolutely should not offer Ueda anything right now. She's obviously willing to leave without getting involved, and we can contact her later once we've figured how to implement a viable system.
 
She hasn't shown anything of the sort, though, except for shadowruns about what to offer.

All we need to do is mention we may want to offer their group cleansing. It's fairly straightforward. No random demands for favors or anything need to happen.
 
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@Ugolino and @FlatlineAskari
You guys are having one hell of an argument, there, considering those 2 lines aren't in NSMS's vote. We don't use the word favor there, and we also don't make sweeping commitments we can't keep. We're also honest about our intentions from the beginning. I think that's the best way to go, don't you?
 
Gadjo said:
@Ugolino and @FlatlineAskari
You guys are having one hell of an argument, there, considering those 2 lines aren't in NSMS's vote. We don't use the word favor there, and we also don't make sweeping commitments we can't keep. We're also honest about our intentions from the beginning. I think that's the best way to go, don't you?
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I agree completely, but I think Askari's advocating for the outdated cannon vote there.
 
Ugolino said:
I agree completely, but I think Askari's advocating for the outdated cannon vote there.
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No. I'm saying that
- There are major obvious and nonobvious risks to anything beyond NSMS' very limited demonstration of cleansing, and
- Ruling out asking for anything in return, now or ever, is unlikely to greatly improve our chances of sealing the deal and may reduce our ability to actually use our power to do good.
 
...No?

Because we can change the terms whenever we want, and don't lose anything by not asking for something back in a blatant manner in the first ten seconds?

I honestly don't see how anything can interfere with us using our power...
 
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Ugolino said:
Because we can change the terms whenever we want, and don't lose anything by not asking for something back in a blatant manner in the first ten seconds?

I honestly don't see how anything can interfere with us using our power...
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You don't see how casually changing rules we said we'd stick to might undermine our ability to fulfill policy objectives that involve getting large numbers of naturally paranoid people to trust us.
This is a thing which you do not comprehend.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
You don't see how casually changing rules we said we'd stick to might undermine our ability to fulfill policy objectives that involve getting large numbers of naturally paranoid people to trust us.
This is a thing which you do not comprehend.
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A pretty irrelevant thing to argue at the moment since his current vote is for NSMS. Do you have a problem with that vote? Because if not, I don't see why you're still having this discussion; he's not voting for that line you hate.
 
Mister Bad Guy said:
which is a bit like being the beauty queen of the third-degree burn clinic.
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I apologize for this completely off topic post, but:
 
Ugolino said:
That rewrite doesn't consult Mami to start with, which I thought was something we were trying to move away from?
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Cannongerbil said:
- [x] Consult with everyone on our next course of action
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Wut? Is Mami not considered part of everyone now?

NSMS said:
[x] Run the basic outline (gather at the radio tower to discuss what to do now, suggest recruiting Sakura to collect incapacitated meguca more quickly) of the plan by Mami. If she has no objections continue on, if she has any suggestions incorporate them or remove parts of the plan as necessary.
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- [x] Consult with everyone on our next course of action
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Why are we consulting with everyone twice?

And, seriously, there's a difference between consulting with Mami when we need to and asking for her approval for everything we do. Getting the UG to bring Katamari back to us isn't something we need to ask Mami's approval for. It's a logical extension of what we've been doing. Consult on what we plan to do afterwards, not now.

Also, this line
NSMS said:
-[x] Tell her that we're willing to cleanse anyone's soul gems (demonstrate/explain cleansing if necessary), but only if they aren't going to use that magic to assault other Magical Girls or other nefarious purposes.
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Not Soul gems, Grief seeds. Remember what our original plan is? We don't want them to stop hunting altogether, we want them to stop being foolhardy over it, and this also starts the hole grief seed exchange plan that we've been working towards. Everything else is fine, just change that line to grief seeds instead of soul gems.

[x] Reply to Chouko: Akiko's de-gem'ed and Sakura's captive.
[x] Keep Akiko unconscious
[x] Update Chouko. Ask them to meet up at the radio tower and pick up any bodies she finds along the way.
-[x] Ask her how bad the damage is.
[x] Ask Ueda for her side of her story. Explain after done.
-[x] Tell her that we're willing to cleanse grief seeds (demonstrate/explain cleansing if necessary) if they bring any to us, as long as they refrain from attack other Magical girls or humans.
[x] Telepathy Rin. Ask for her location, provide quick summary, ask if she needs help.
[x] Once the University group gets here:
- [x] Consult with everyone on our next course of action
- [x] Point: We want to heal any civilians.
- [x] Point: We want to gather the incapacitated girl's bodies
- [x] Bring up the idea of letting Sakura go to help out, but don't force the issue if they seem reluctant.
- [x] Go ahead and execute once we've got a definite plan.
 
Ugolino said:
Consulting her first is for her mental state- and asks about the rest of the plan and how she'd handle things too.
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...We're doing that anyway. We just aren't consulting her for everything we do, even the stuff that's obvious. Neither are we consulting her on things that we aren't willing to give up on. No matter what Mami says, we are still going to offer the deal to Ueda, and we are still going to bring Katamari up to the tower. Asking her for her opinion, then disregarding it if it goes against what we want is going to hurt more than it helps.
 
Unless Mami strongly objects, or has improvements, in which case we listen to her and the rest of the vote is changed or null and void.

But I see no reason not to run things by her and just her if working on her mental state's going to be a thing we're doing- and given that fixing Mami limpet is a priority...
 
Cannongerbil said:
...We're doing that anyway. We just aren't consulting her for everything we do, even the stuff that's obvious. Neither are we consulting her on things that we aren't willing to give up on. No matter what Mami says, we are still going to offer the deal to Ueda, and we are still going to bring Katamari up to the tower. Asking her for her opinion, then disregarding it if it goes against what we want is going to hurt more than it helps.
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We're not going to disregard it, that vote explicitly calls for making any alterations she suggests. And she is smart and has experience that can help; plus it's good for her mental health. I don't think it's harming anything, either.
 
Fine, then, forget that part. I still think it's redundant asking her twice, but that isn't particularly important compared to this part:
Cannongerbil said:
-[x] Tell her that we're willing to cleanse grief seeds (demonstrate/explain cleansing if necessary) if they bring any to us, as long as they refrain from attack other Magical girls or humans.
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Grief seeds, not soul gems.
 
I...actually agree with that reasoning. I think the rationale for that line by NSMS was to cleanse gems directly to prevent misuse of our seed cleansing?
 
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