- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Google exists- I remember voting specifically to check whether it did in, like... 2016? 2017? It was a long time ago, but I remember that the answer ended up being "yes".
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Google exists- I remember voting specifically to check whether it did in, like... 2016? 2017? It was a long time ago, but I remember that the answer ended up being "yes".
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Hey, it's even Google pre-enshittification, so it's still useful.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
finally, a wish worth selling my soul for
- Location
- Washington, USA
I think we've actually got a chance to catch Kyuubey in a lie here, or close enough. Kyouko's dad had a magical crisis dropped in his lap, reacted badly, everything went to shit... but when Sayaka's dad faced something similar, Kyuubey simply wiped his memory of the event. If that sort of cover-up is longstanding SOP - as it seems to be - the white rat therefore must have made a special exception for Reverend Sakura. On whose orders, for what purpose?
Was skipping the normal wipe the only thing it did differently, or could there have been additional nudges of some sort? That bit about degrees of causal separation - no direct harm - was suspiciously specific, coming from an entity who's clearly capable of thinking several moves ahead.
Lot less cause for self-blame when you were maliciously used as a pawn, rather than merely screwing up on your own amid an uncaring universe. Get Kyouko and Sayaka to talk about that subject, compare notes, they'll figure it out.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm sure Kyubey didn't make a special exception for Kyoko's dad. I'm sure it has a longstanding policy of wiping potential's families but not active meguca, or something like that, and I'm sure it's able to produce altruistic-sounding reasons for this policy on request.
Kyouko, getting hit by all her trauma at once: It would not.
Sayaka: I'm nervous about coming out to my parents. It'd be so much easier if Kyubey just hadn't wiped their memories.
Kyouko, getting hit by all her trauma at once: It would not.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Ah, but we already know for sure that capricious exceptions to such policies are a thing, because Kyuubey was willing-and-able to exempt Sayaka's folks from further mindwipes before Sayaka contracted, and plug Hitomi into the telepathy network even though she's not a potential, in both cases immediately in response to Sabrina's request without any apparent procedural-loophole haggling.
- Location
- United States
This is one of those "don't ask a question you don't already know the answer to" situations, because if it turns out Kyōko caught him mindwiping her parents earlier and told him to knock it off, bringing that up will just make her blame herself even more for what happened.
Romka
Master of Stealth
- Location
- In a barrel
We do have a chance to blame Kyubey for what happened. We even considered doing it when Kyoko made up with Mami, though we decided it wasn't what really mattered then.
On the topic of why Kyubey contradicted the policy he cited after mind wiping Sayaka's parents, I'd like to bring up this quote Firn made about it.
Kyubey may well have a policy of not mindwiping family of people who have already contracted. They wouldn't be able to dissuade the meguca from contracting anymore because it would be too late for that, so there would be far less reason to do it. There would still be situations where he would want to mind wipe those families though, like if they have friends who would consider contracting, so I suspect he has ways to do it if he wants to.
Its not difficult for Kyubey made exceptions to things, like creating lots of loopholes that let it ignore its policies if it would achieve better results, or briefly changing its policy so it can do whatever it wants, or even just having policies that say it should do something, rather than it must.
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that he wanted what happened to happen, and he probably deliberately caused it.
Also, this reminds me that Sayaka's parents still don't remember what happened. We should suggest that Sayaka comes out to her parents some time. Preferably with Kyoko in the room.
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JIMI94
Birdman with a cauldron on it's head
- Location
- The Garden of Earthly Delights
Yeah, a policy isn't perfectly a promise or oath or whatnot with no possible way to interpret otherwise (which is the only way it'd bind it at all), so it can use words like that to imply it will do things in certain circumstances. Honestly I'm not even sure if it can't lie by way of just keeping information among it's terminals asymmetrical so that they can say things that, if you queried the whole collective would be known to be false, but would be thought to be true/likely/otherwise not false by the individual with no way to confirm from others or will to find out.
Like ironically Kyuubey itself may be regularly gaslit by other incubators so that it can bullshit better. I doubt it would go insane from anything that could be revealed to it, but it would be funny in a way if it did (maybe not 'haha' funny, but something).
Like ironically Kyuubey itself may be regularly gaslit by other incubators so that it can bullshit better. I doubt it would go insane from anything that could be revealed to it, but it would be funny in a way if it did (maybe not 'haha' funny, but something).
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Kyoko's a preacher's daughter and clearly internalized a lot of what he was saying regardless of what happened later. Thinking of this theologically seems likely to help understanding where she's likely to get hung up on that logical/ethical chain.
Kyubey is the devil. I'm not being metaphorical saying he's evil. I mean he is literally a supernatural entity older than the human species and a master of manipulation that makes bargains with the desperate and unwary to claim their souls and inflict eternal suffering upon those souls.
There isn't really much room for the idea that it isn't your fault if you sell your soul to the devil in the worldview Kyoko would have been starting from. What Kyoko fundamentally needs is Grace. Forgiveness for her sins committed in ignorance, because for all Kyoko might think she deserves to suffer for what she's done, God knows better than that and would offer her salvation anyway rather than abandon her to the forces of the adversary.
Fortunately, we know there is a loving God out there who would save her from the torment Kyubey would see her suffer. More than one even. And we've got some strong suspicions that at least one, if not both sent their child to earth to save those souls from damnation, and that child has occasionally noted they would be okay that if they have to get stabbed with a spear to save Kyoko from the hell she thinks she deserves, she's worth it.
It probably wouldn't be wise to draw the theological implications ourselves, but I do think it may be easier to see a path to helping Kyoko by occasionally thinking about her issues in those terms.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Easter was on April 24th in 2011, so we might, at least in theory, be able to squeeze in some vacation days (and staying-conscious-while-disembodied practice with the Soujos) starting Friday the 22nd. Mami would probably not approve.
Alternatively, blame calendar reform and claim we already took care of that tomb stuff back in mid-to-late March.
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JIMI94
Birdman with a cauldron on it's head
- Location
- The Garden of Earthly Delights
Actually, given an external manifestation of our magic could be useful for understanding ourselves, it may not even be a bad idea to try. I'd imagine first would be to learn how to partially disconnect ourselves from like, a limb, then once those are done, the torso, then replicate hearing/sight with one of our ears/eyes removed, then the other when the first is online (so we don't lose continuity of sense at any point so we don't go gem comatose).
If it requires gemming properly at first, we can just have Homura take our gem in timestop while we're reclining/otherwise poised not to flop over, and return it if after five minutes we can't manage to wake up. Once we manage partial manifestation we can just finish on our own time. The timestop means we don't spend a significant amount of time unconscious (though we might want to make sure Oriko, Madoka, Sayaka and anyone else who's been around when we got invisitext or who might be a target is accounted for while doing this to be safe).
If it requires gemming properly at first, we can just have Homura take our gem in timestop while we're reclining/otherwise poised not to flop over, and return it if after five minutes we can't manage to wake up. Once we manage partial manifestation we can just finish on our own time. The timestop means we don't spend a significant amount of time unconscious (though we might want to make sure Oriko, Madoka, Sayaka and anyone else who's been around when we got invisitext or who might be a target is accounted for while doing this to be safe).
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- Location
- United States
Ironically, one of them has declared herself the actual devil and, despite generally having terrible self-esteem, would probably feel justifiably insulted about being compared to Kyubey.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Known how to do that for iC multiple weeks, OOC almost a decade:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I remain worried she might not feel insulted by the comparison. For all Kyubey has been an obstacle to her saving Madoka, I do worry that there's a level of comparing herself to him and finding herself wanting. I've started to think of Homura's relationship with Kyubey as like one's relationship with an abusive parent. You hate what they do, but you can't help but internalize some of the values they push on you and even after getting out from under them, it takes a lot of time and support to really unpack and properly understand all the ways what they did to you were neither normal or justified.
Kyubey is very consistent in his victim blaming, and Homura has had to put up with it longer than any other member of the cast. And with how much Homura defines herself as a good-for-nothing failure, I can't help but worry over the scene where Madoka is sobbing about how can Kyubey be so cruel and Homura explains that he doesn't consider it cruel. Entering into Kyubey's framework and using his justifications to explain the situation.
Yes, it's technically true that Kyubey doesn't consider what he does cruel. But the reason he can be so cruel is because he is, in human terms, a sociopath lacking the capacity for positive connections with other people, while also lacking the other characteristics that can allow even human sociopaths to exist in our society without harming others. Kyubey does not care and needs to pretend to care only to the extent it gets him what he wants. And what he wants specifically involves hurting people.
Homura trusting Kyubey with her story in the Rebellion timeline feels like a sign that she never properly internalized the degree to which Kyubey is a hostile paperclip optimizer. She also doesn't seem to see him for the compulsive gambler he is, treating his straw Vulcan routine as if he actually was a perfectly logical being instead of being dumb enough that he already got the universe he claims to care about preserving destroyed once and expressed active interest in fucking with the same system that did that.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this due to being up until midnight last night supporting my roommate through a mental breakdown over her abusive mother, but a lot of what I see from Homura suggests a comparison might well be read as complimentary due to Kyubey being strong, capable, and smart unlike her good-for-nothing self.
Solarstream
It's all in the cards
- Location
- Zombie World
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Interesting. You mind telling me what you think happened? I'll tell you my perspective after.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Torgamous
While there's a lot to be done, and certainly some interesting questions we could ask, I think just proceeding and letting her talk is the way to go.
While there's a lot to be done, and certainly some interesting questions we could ask, I think just proceeding and letting her talk is the way to go.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Is there proper documentation of all those sorts of details somewhere? The "how to run a quest" tutorials I've found so far were flush with stuff I already knew from doing so on other boards, but short on technical quirks specific to SV.
Nuew
“Mankind, be vigilant. We loved you.”—Julius Fučík
- Location
- hiding in ∅
- Pronouns
- She/They
This specifically was from Firn's thread announcing the feature in Forum News. There's also the Useful BBCode link and the tutorials forum more generally.
AmusedOracle
Sleepyhearted Hierophant.
- Location
- The Empty Path.
Surely the sarcastic ironic echo is the play here.
"Oh, sorry for stopping your raid in Myanmar. It was nothing personal." - deadpan.
(this is not an entirely serious suggestions hence the lack of vote, but food for thought)
"Oh, sorry for stopping your raid in Myanmar. It was nothing personal." - deadpan.
(this is not an entirely serious suggestions hence the lack of vote, but food for thought)
Hazard Course Pt. 45
[x] Interesting. You mind telling me what you think happened? I'll tell you my perspective after.
[X] During the talk:
-[X] You're trying to set things up to a point where a semi-functioning legal system can exist.
--[X] Once it does, her and her colleagues will go through it. You're aiming for rehabilitative justice.
-[X] We are hearing her out as a courtesy, and she should not waste our time.
--[X] Anything she wants to say to us any time soon, should be said now, because she likely won't get another chance before her trial. You are busy.
[X] Don't leave without talking to Yuki about setting up the Warehouse-kun science lab and stopping by to talk to Anri.
-[X] Subjects for Anri: De-witching progress, Yuuri's Grief Seed, Body Manufacture, Evil Nuts Asunaro Almonds.
[X] During the talk:
-[X] You're trying to set things up to a point where a semi-functioning legal system can exist.
--[X] Once it does, her and her colleagues will go through it. You're aiming for rehabilitative justice.
-[X] We are hearing her out as a courtesy, and she should not waste our time.
--[X] Anything she wants to say to us any time soon, should be said now, because she likely won't get another chance before her trial. You are busy.
[X] Don't leave without talking to Yuki about setting up the Warehouse-kun science lab and stopping by to talk to Anri.
-[X] Subjects for Anri: De-witching progress, Yuuri's Grief Seed, Body Manufacture, Evil Nuts Asunaro Almonds.
Ta Kaung Chien and her sisters, over in Myanmar, weren't your friends - maybe not at the time, or maybe just not your friends at all. You'd come in to their lives at one heck of a low point, and you'd saved them, then you'd let them be. You stand by that decision, still - sometimes, you're not the right person to help. Sometimes, the best way to help someone is to let them have their space. They had each other, and you were an intruder at best.
Still, that's besides the point. They weren't your friends at the time, and you stepped in because it was the right thing to do.
You let yourself grimace with your real face, leaning into Mami's side, even as you keep your proxy's face smiling pleasantly, neutral and inoffensive.
And... surely Parró knows that. They'd been doing their homework, after all, spying on you from afar and drawing your attention. It's possible that they just didn't find out as much as you thought they did that much, and made a few guesses. The speed of your response, and your instant presence in Myanmar certainly could look like personal investment, but it's equally possible that she's perfectly aware, and working some ploy.
Or being magically influenced, some especially paranoid part of you whispers.
Or she's trying to
You give her a neutral, noncommittal smile, gesturing at the little study desk in the room. Just the one chair, but that's not a problem.
"Why don't we sit down?" you suggest. "I think we've got a number of things to sort through."
Parró nods, that chipper smile unwavering on her face. She looks a little strained, at best, which... is evidence for nothing much more than being stressed. Which, regardless of what might be running through her mind, is pretty much the only reasonable reaction. You'd be more suspicious if someone speaking to their captor wasn't stressed.
"So," you say as you seat yourself opposite her, folding Grief out of thin air to sit on. "Miss Parró. Would you mind telling me what you think happened? I'll tell you my perspective after that."
"Of course, of course," she says, her voice still that same easy drawl. "Well, there we were, me and my girls, hanging out after another hunt. Now, we'd heard rumours of your deeds, and we were interested in recruiting your fine self, so I had Amy take a look at your town while we had the time."
"Uh huh," you say neutrally, gesturing for her to continue. After a 'hunt', she says. Euphemism or just bald-faced lie, and neither option you find palatable. "And why were you in Myanmar for your hunt specifically?"
"Because I have a ship," Parró says. "Traveling is what I do. And isn't my Iowa beautiful?"
"It's a lovely ship, yes," you say neutrally. There's a glimmer of real pride in the way she says that, a look of genuine joy you don't think is faked.
"And then..." Parró snaps her fingers. "There you were, right on top of us! Flattened us in seconds, which let me tell you, is no small feat. We're all veterans." She laughs lightly. "And... I gotta apologize for trying to grab them as hostages. And for my actions when you captured us. It's not like we knew much what was going to happen, you know? Desperation."
"You tried to kill Ta Kaung Chien out of desperation?" you ask mildly. You remember, of course. Taking hostages as a desperate last ploy, gun to their Gems. Maybe they'd been bluffing.
Maybe.
"Is that her name?" Parró asks. "I'm bad with these foreign names."
Somehow, you doubt it.
"Mmm," you say neutrally. "Well. From my point of view, I'd heard you and your gang were nasty pieces of work. And we found you lording it over the local girls, who were half-starved and badly traumatized. I don't suppose you know anything about that?"
You stare at her in silence, your proxy unblinking.
"Ah, fuck this," she mutters, smile and drawl both draining away. The expression she levels at you is one of flat calculation, her eyes flickering momentarily to the empty Soul Gem mount on your proxy's chest. "Guess we're both sick of the foreplay. What do you want?"
"Honestly, I should be asking you that," you say evenly, not letting the sudden change of gears faze you. "You're the one who wanted to see me, no? So I'm here as a courtesy to you, and I'd appreciate you not wasting any more of my time."
Parró flattens her lips together.
"Well, forgive me for wanting to talk to someone actually in charge instead of a lackey," Parró says.
"You're very wrong about that, but frankly, it's besides the point. If you really want, it's something that I don't mind telling you about later," you say, sighing. "But you know what, you still haven't answered the question. What do you want?"
"Hah." Her laugh is dry and unamused. "As if that's not obvious. I want my freedom back. And I'm wanting to know what it'll take to buy it."
You purse your lips, giving her a long, long look. One of the few girls you've met who's taller than you, but not by much - and with the way she leans forward in her chair, elbows braced on the table, you don't have to tilt your head back to meet her gaze. There is, perhaps, a hint of unease beneath that confidence.
"I... look. Do you even know why we stopped you?" you ask.
"Is this about your friends there in Myanmar?" Parró asks. "I'll apologise for that. I'll apologise to them, too, if that's what you want."
"They're not my friends," you say softly. "I didn't know them at all before you scryed on us."
"Huh. Really playing into that white knight rep of yours, then. Good schtick, not my thing," she says, raising an eyebrow, then shaking her head. "Well, whatever. I applaud playing hardball, but let's not kid ourselves here. You need me. You need my girls."
"Do I?" you say.
"Now who's wasting time?" Parró asks, rolling her eyes. "No way in hell anybody bothers keeping girls they beat alive unless there's a reason for it. Which... let me guess. You need kneebreakers. We go kick some faces in, and then you swoop in and rescue them? Classic two-person scam."
"No, not at all," you say. "I'm not running any kind of scam. The reason I stopped you is because fucking hell you needed to be stopped."
You glare at her, and something in your gaze makes her rock back, just a little bit.
"I just..." you gesture at yourself, a rough jab to the chest. "Seriously, the answer's right in front of you. I'm hearing you out because I think hearing you out would be the right thing to do. I stopped you because taking people hostage and grinding them to death isn't right."
Parró gives you a heavy, lidded look.
"And what do you want me to do?" she asks. "Kiss your feet for your great and glorious generosity? Praise the sun shining out of your ass? Because let me tell you, Sabrina, the real world doesn't work like that."
"Man, I kind of hate that phrase," you say with a snort, and spread your arms. "'The real world'. I mean, is this not the real world?"
Some extremely pedantic part of yourself feels the urge to point out that this room, within the aegis of Yuki's power, might not in fact be the real world, but that's entirely besides the point.
"You've got the upper hand for now, girl. But that's not going to last forever," Parró says, her expression dark. "It's about leverage and control. You got the drop on us, but that's not going to last forever. You need a stick to your carrot if you're gonna build your new world order."
"... really?" you say, raising an eyebrow. "I mean. The carrot is free cleansing. The stick is... not having free cleansing. It's not that complicated."
"Ah, sure, you'll starve people to death," Parró says, snorting. "That's why you're keeping us alive. And so generous! I don't think my Soul Gem's been so consistently clean in months. Your new world order'll run nicely right up until you run into someone big enough to just take what you've got and ignore you."
"Mm," you say. "Not entirely wrong in generalities, but your assumptions are just wrong. But frankly, I doubt you're actually interested in debating policy with me. And I... have no interest in this frankly boring social Darwinist bullshit."
You exhale sharply, interlacing your proxy's fingers on the table before you.
"So. Here's what's going to happen," you say. "My friends and I are working on getting an actual functional legal system going. It might take some time, but once we're done, you and your team are going through it. Don't worry for your lives, though. I don't believe in the death penalty, and we're aiming for rehabilitative justice, not punitive."
"A legal system?" Parró stares at you for a long, long moment, then begins to laugh. Derisive, ugly peals of laughter that end with tears in her eyes and her fist pounding against the table, leaving cracks in the wood.
You would be insulted, but well. You are proposing something essentially unheard of. And more than that...
You don't actually have to convince her of anything here and now, do you? The proof is in the pudding, after all, and ultimately... ultimately, you might still play some active part in rehabilitating them. And then again, maybe not. You'll definitely need a mental health professional or two on the job, and it might be best to be on hand for at least the initial meetings, just in case.
Fix everything, Madoka had Wished. And you will. But do you have to do anything now?
You find yourself smiling. It's... actually sort of refreshing. You don't have to try and convert her to your side, seemingly unrepentant as she is. Which you suppose, on an intellectual level, you sort of understand. They did what they had to, to survive, and the human mind is quick to wallpaper over little things like that. Nobody likes thinking too hard about the unpleasant deeds they've hardened themselves against, after all.
Still.
Thoughts for later. Do you really have to anything right now?
You continue to smile as her laughter fades away, unease creeping in at your lack of concern. Even so, she grins at you.
"The world doesn't work like that for us, girl," she says. "And all I gotta do is wait until things fall apart, until your guard slips, and I'll be out again. And you better watch your back when that day comes."
[] Nah. You don't have to do anything right now. Go talk to Anri.
[] Actually...
- [] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
=====
So! Reminder that I won't be updating this coming weekend. Next update will be the week after, hopefully!
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Rem
fite me
Mmm. Sabrina made a huge mistake here. Possibly a calculated one, but if so I think she made the wrong choice.
Giving the interrogatee information is careless. You're only conceding the upper hand and potential leverage.
Unless we have a very good reason for showing her our cards here I don't think we can trust ourselves to interrogate someone again.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
[X] Nah. You don't have to do anything right now. Go talk to Anri.
Saying anything else to her at this point would just be getting into a game of one-upwomanship, which is pointless. Besides, words are cheap- it'll be keeping her contained long-term that's the proof.
Saying anything else to her at this point would just be getting into a game of one-upwomanship, which is pointless. Besides, words are cheap- it'll be keeping her contained long-term that's the proof.
