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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Torgamous said:
I thought we were going to tell them both together as the "powerless advisors" group, instead of having Madoka feel singled out.
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Can confirm, I am pretty sure that the original goal of having this conversation was to inform the both of them due to the incident in tokyo.

In fact, didn't we say that we would explain to them? I am not sure this idea of not telling Madoka is a good one, she already knows there is something, telling Hitomi and not her is just asking for trouble down the line.
 
Nyarky said:
Can confirm, I am pretty sure that the original goal of having this conversation was to inform the both of them due to the incident in tokyo.

In fact, didn't we say that we would explain to them? I am not sure this idea of not telling Madoka is a good one, she already knows there is something, telling Hitomi and not her is just asking for trouble down the line.
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The issue is "telling Madoka stuff" is an area Homura has issues and trauma around. She is inclined to keep treating Madoka like a mushroom unless circumstances force her hand. Circumstances have forced her hand. We will be telling Madoka stuff. The conversation with Homura centers around getting Homura onboard with exactly what we're going to tell her and easing her anxieties about telling her stuff.

Hitomi knowing stuff doesn't trigger Homura's trauma buttons in the same way, and thus it is potentially easier to get Homura to agree to bring Hitomi in. And after Hitomi is in, Hitomi can contribute to the "What exactly are we going to tell Madoka and how?" discussion.

We could wait on bringing Hitomi in on things until we're ready to talk to Madoka as well, but that would mean Hitomi wouldn't be able to contribute her perspective on how Madoka is likely to respond to our planned reveals. Thus she won't be able to warn us about pitfalls we've missed and won't be able to add her voice to reassure Homura about our planned course of action if she agrees with us.

Either way, we have to tell Madoka something, because our previous plan of pretending she knew the whole story and that we had everything under control failed when we hung up on her in Tokyo. She knows there's stuff we're not telling her, and by not clarifying, we risk Kyubey being the one to answer any questions she may have.

I see pros and cons to bringing in Hitomi early instead of telling her and Madoka whatever we decide they can both be safely told, then telling Hitomi things we decide not to tell Madoka later. I am still willing to float the idea of telling Hitomi early, as those pros of being able to get her perspective as we make this decision seem like they outweigh the cons to me.
 
Torgamous said:
Was that even our previous plan? She didn't sound especially surprised that there was a secret a stranger in Tokyo could hold over our head.
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Whether it was actually our plan or not, our conversation with Madoka and Sayaka about the Lichbomb was very carefully phrased in order to avoid even implying the existence of another secret like that (as opposed to secrets that were more about respecting other people's right to privacy which she obviously knew we were keeping). It was only after Sayaka contracted that we approached Sayaka to inform her there was an another secret and gave her a heads up that she could ask when and if she felt prepared to hear it. We never gave Madoka that same update.

Now, it could be Sayaka already covered the existence of another Infohazard with her at some point before Tokyo, or we could have let something slip ourselves at some point I'm not remembering, or Madoka was just able to work out that we were hiding stuff because we're just easier to read than we like to think and decided not to press the issue. My assumption was that she was surprised, but had other issues on her mind at the time, and once the crisis had passed and she had time to process, decided not to bother us about it. She might well have even worked out that it is something that isn't relevant as long as she doesn't contract like the lichbomb and is still committed to the idea of not contracting and thus considers it none of her business and doesn't want to make us talk about something potentially painful like that for no benefit.

I do want to emphasize that my assumptions are NOT something I would want to rely on, especially regarding how Madoka is feeling at any given moment. I want to ask her how she's feeling and what she's thinking, because not knowing that feels like it's the one thing most likely to bite us in the ass if we run off assumptions, no matter how optimistic, pecimistic, insightful, or brain dead those assumptions may be.

For all I want to tell Madoka things, and I very much do, listening to Madoka's thoughts and feelings is, if anything, more important to me. Because I, for one, don't think I know Madoka nearly as well as I should given how much of literally everything is about how she feels.
 
I think I've mentioned this before

But Sabrina's thoughts are, like, very fast. As in, it's been ten years or so thread-time. It's been about four weeks in-universe. There are 365 days in a year, so we've been active for about 0.07 years. For every 10 years, we experience 0.07. I think dividing 10 by 0.07 gets us the multiplier- so Sabrina's running at about 143 *times* the story time.

Granted, it's probably not quite that- people aren't posting all the time and threadmarks vary, but this definitely explains why Sabrina comes off as slightly weird.
 
Arum60 said:
I think I've mentioned this before

But Sabrina's thoughts are, like, very fast. As in, it's been ten years or so thread-time. It's been about four weeks in-universe. There are 365 days in a year, so we've been active for about 0.07 years. For every 10 years, we experience 0.07. I think dividing 10 by 0.07 gets us the multiplier- so Sabrina's running at about 143 *times* the story time.

Granted, it's probably not quite that- people aren't posting all the time and threadmarks vary, but this definitely explains why Sabrina comes off as slightly weird.
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Relevant.
 
According to the PMAS wiki Sabrina became active on March 28th and today in-story is April 18th, so it's only been 21 days

Also she kissed Mami on the cheek on April 10th so they technically started dating after knowing each other for just 2 weeks

Oh Sabrina
 
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StellarMonarch said:
just 2 weeks
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I think that can be waved away given that Mami latched onto Sabrina since the day 1.

Which reminds me that I need find time and reread PMAS from chapter 1. I am starved for good Madoka fics damnit, Time and Word updates too infrequently for me to sate my hunger and pretty much everything else is dead.
 
ExploerTM said:
I am starved for good Madoka fics damnit, Time and Word updates too infrequently for me to sate my hunger and pretty much everything else is dead.
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Huh, Time and Word? I'm gonna go check it out, I'm also starved for good PMMM fics. My other options are to reread PMAS again or write my own fics. Neither of which I'm against doing, but a new fic sounds fun.
 
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Arum60 said:
I think I've mentioned this before

But Sabrina's thoughts are, like, very fast. As in, it's been ten years or so thread-time. It's been about four weeks in-universe. There are 365 days in a year, so we've been active for about 0.07 years. For every 10 years, we experience 0.07. I think dividing 10 by 0.07 gets us the multiplier- so Sabrina's running at about 143 *times* the story time.

Granted, it's probably not quite that- people aren't posting all the time and threadmarks vary, but this definitely explains why Sabrina comes off as slightly weird.
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I got an even more extreme number than that. We started on Monday of week 1, and its now Monday of week 4, so its been 21 says in universe. Meanwhile, the thread started on May 19th 2014, And its currently April 25th 2024, which means its been 9 years, 11 months, and 6 days, or 3629 days since the quest started. 3629 divided by 21 is 172.8.

So, we experience time about 170 times more slowly than people in universe, which means that a minute for everyone else (well, other than Kyubey probably) feels like nearly 3 hours to Sabrina. No wonder she forgets details so easily.
 
Romka said:
I got an even more extreme number than that. We started on Monday of week 1, and its now Monday of week 4, so its been 21 says in universe. Meanwhile, the thread started on May 19th 2014, And its currently April 25th 2024, which means its been 9 years, 11 months, and 6 days, or 3629 days since the quest started. 3629 divided by 21 is 172.8.

So, we experience time about 170 times more slowly than people in universe, which means that a minute for everyone else (well, other than Kyubey probably) feels like nearly 3 hours to Sabrina. No wonder she forgets details so easily.
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I feel that I should point out that this topic has been discussed previously, and I believe that the WOG is that Sabrina does not experience time dilation rather the difference instead shows up in her multi-tasking ability. That is her ability to control large numbers of individual particles at once is caused by the thread.
 
the meep said:
I feel that I should point out that this topic has been discussed previously, and I believe that the WOG is that Sabrina does not experience time dilation rather the difference instead shows up in her multi-tasking ability. That is her ability to control large numbers of individual particles at once is caused by the thread.
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The thread could NEVER pull off the multitasking involved in Sabrina's quick spa treatment.

And while Sabrina doesn't actually perceive the time dilation, it does cause her time blindness and memory issues. It also impacts her emotional processing, leading to her extremely rapid forgiveness of people.
 
To expand on this scenario that wont get out of my head: Homura likely has a Candeloro grief seed from a previous timeline, we successfully Dewitch it and re-embody her, Mami #2 is now free and at large. How does she handle being in this story?

Learning she's from a failed loop would suck because she'd also have to grapple with not having her own home or losing whatever friends she, uh, didn't have.

Seeing the local version of herself being happy in a romantic relationship and reconciling with Kyouko and Kazumi might be nice. On one hand she'll know she isn't destined to be lonely, on the other these aren't her versions of her friends and there's (for now) only one Sabrina around. So maybe there's a crush there but Sabrina is very much taken and then there's whatever guilt comes from that weirdness.

Sabrina possibly dating two Mamis would be... Interesting. Sabrina's pretty open minded but in practice managing a romance with two near identical girls who are traumatized and possibly jealous of each other would be difficult and very very odd. Differentiating them would get confusing too, the Mamis obviously look identical and their witch names should be the same. But imagine the double Mumihugs...

Alternatively Sabrina only stays friends with Mami#2, but her sleeping in the guest room while knowing the other version of herself is cuddling with a cute foreign girlfriend and being disgustingly domestic would be very awkward. Or we have her stay elsewhere but then she'd need somebody to keep an eye on her... I guess Homura has room? Kazumi maybe? Hell maybe MamiKyouko is in the cards if Sayaka hasn't taken her yet.

Mami and Mami#2 prrrrobably would get along fine especially if they think of their connection as being familial / sisterly, unless they start fighting over Sabrina or something, and local Mami would be equipped to help Mami#2 by virtue of knowing herself. They could work well with each other in the field or manage the Mamigold hotel together.

This has been on my mind for a while and it would definitely be a late- or post-quest thing since Mami#2's existence would require loopbombing and Witchbombing everyone she'd have to interact with and also figuring out dewitching, but the fact that's its even likely to happen in the future is really distracting me.

Given how often Sayaka dies or witches out in the loops Homura also might have more than one Oktavia Von Seckendorffs in her shield, with different wishes and maybe some minor differences like musical taste. She's also gonna run into the same issues as Mami does with not having her versions of her friends around and not having her possessions but the Mikis and Kanames and Shizukis could take her/them in. And given her romantic inclinations she'd have to compete with our own Sayaka for Kyousuke and Kyoko, which sounds very funny.

I'd worry about an inferiority complex for the previous Sayakas. Their powers are not as ridiculously versatile as the local Sayaka and they won't have the same level of accomplishments as local Sayaka. More healers is great for us but they're more the type to punch evildoers in the face. Also we're gonna have to manage her hostility towards Homura but if we tell them everything with local Sayaka in the room she shouldn't be violent? Alternate Sayakas also doesn't have any baggage with the Mikunis so that's nice. Anyways, I'd probably have Sayaka and Madoka handle them all.

I don't know where I was going with this but we really need to hire like a billion therapists yesterday.
 
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Honestly while I don't mind therapists (and think it'd be a capital idea to have some on retainer) I think really the best thing we can do for girls is the fact we already can already release them from the worst parts of being meguca (that they aren't forced into battle royale situations and we have a strong group that can protect them). In my opinion much of the dysfunction of modern humans in all situations is from the struggles of life as is, and if you can just take as long as you want to figure things out and have plenty of people who will have your back it makes everything else much easier.

They've got a built in support group if nothing else in each other.
 
Homura does have griefs seeds from past members of our group. For posterity's sake, here is the original quote.
Firnagzen said:
OK, you know what? I'll put this particular one to an end. This is my view, and canon to PMAS.

Yes, Homura can bring Grief Seeds back with her. No, she doesn't have very many, because while she's efficient, it's still hard to run on a surplus of Grief Seeds. (Keep in mind? The number of loops is large, not infinite.)

And she tries her utmost not to dip into that reserve pile save for desperate times, like when it comes time to fight against Walpurgisnacht, if only because she doesn't want to reveal to Kyuubey that she's a time traveler.

Also, the Grief Seeds she tends to keep and tries hardest not to use are those of the Mitakihara group. Sayaka, Kyouko, Mami, but not Madoka's. Never Madoka's.
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StellarMonarch said:
I've brought it up here before and @Nerevar has said that she does have some.
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That... doesnt make sense?? If she had an ability to stockpile grief seeds, Homura would've just bribed pretty much every single meguca she could call to fight Walpurgis and just dogpile her. Alternatively, she could've extended her time stop powers or allowed some stupid shenanigans in timelines where Mami lived till Walpurgis.

Ninja'd while writing. If this is what Firn ruled for PMAS fine, I am dropping subject now. But I still maintain opinion that outside of PMAS that doesnt make a lick of sense.
 
ExploerTM said:
That... doesnt make sense?? If she had an ability to stockpile grief seeds, Homura would've just bribed pretty much every single meguca she could call to fight Walpurgis and just dogpile her. Alternatively, she could've extended her time stop powers or allowed some stupid shenanigans in timelines where Mami lived till Walpurgis.
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Homura is in general unwilling to adopt strategies that sacrifice success in her current loop in order to do better in a future one. Stockpiling significant quantities of grief seeds would require doing things that put the life of her current Madoka second - ignoring Madoka's safety to do nothing but hunt witches all day, not wasting magic getting entangled with other magical girls and therefore doing nothing to manage the ongoing disaster unfolding around Madoka, not going all out against walpurgis or even not fighting it at all, etc. As long as Madoka lives she will never give up on her so all of these moves are simply off the table unless Madoka dies at the start of the loop and she has six weeks to burn. She approaches every loop planning to win
 
DarkVeracity said:
Homura is in general unwilling to adopt strategies that sacrifice success in her current loop in order to do better in a future one. Stockpiling significant quantities of grief seeds would require doing things that put the life of her current Madoka second - ignoring Madoka's safety to do nothing but hunt witches all day, not wasting magic getting entangled with other magical girls and therefore doing nothing to manage the ongoing disaster unfolding around Madoka, not going all out against walpurgis or even not fighting it at all, etc. As long as Madoka lives she will never give up on her so all of these moves are simply off the table unless Madoka dies at the start of the loop and she has six weeks to burn. She approaches every loop planning to win
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Yeah but by just pocketing grief seed here and there she can gather quite substantial amount; she doesnt even really use much of those, not even in final fight. If she learns how to speedrun witches (if only by knowing where and when they usually appear and what to expect) she can theoretically gain more seeds per seed used to fight these witches.

Like, canonically Homura had around 100 loops, 90 or something. Assuming she just left for a future 2 seeds each loop and assuming she discovered she can even do that, say, loop 20 (or whenever she shot Madoka because she didnt have two grief seeds), thats still 70*2=140 seeds. Thats A LOT of firepower for anyone with battle capable magic right there, a lot of stopped time for Homura and a lot of currency to bribe people.

If Homura was going through seeds like Mami goes through tea reserves, I would've get it. But she doesnt. She doesnt bribe people, she doesnt use them for herself, she doesnt use them to overcharge other megucas. Genuinely, in the show Mami, Sayaka and Kyoko were all gunning for seeds all the time and Homura was just chilling no problems.

May be I am just overrelaying on Occam's Razor or not reading enough supplemental material. Simplest answer to "Why Homura doesnt stockpile on seeds?" is "She can't".
 
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