Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Mhm, we have made it quite far, bunch of bumps and mistakes but other than that? We are doing so well Homura has actual hope of winning this time.

We aint failing now and we will see Homura and Madoka go on a cute date and be happy dammit.

We will make it so being Meguca isnt suffering anymore!
 
Firnagzen said:
Keep in mind, you currently have conditional permission - it's a BREAK GLASS IN CASE OF FIRE sort of permission to tell Madoka.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yep. This is, and was intended only as, an emergency measure we hope to never use and will do everything in our power to make sure we never have to use it.

And it was formalizing something we were going to do anyway if we hadn't had this talk. This was mostly about getting on the same page so she knows what to expect in an emergency and thus we won't have to be explaining our reasoning during or after that emergency. If it was ever a choice between betraying Homura's trust and saving Madoka, we all know Homura would want us to save Madoka every time, but by talking about it beforehand, it means that if we end up in that situation, we won't have to choose because we won't be betraying Homura's trust.

This is not anything more. We should absolutely remember this is NOT blanket agreement to tell Madoka everything on our schedule just like Homura agreeing to Loopbomb Sayaka if she was on the edge of figuring it out was not blanket permission to Loopbomb Sayaka on our schedule. There are conditions to be met.

I'm heartened that she was able to agree to the contingency. It's something Homufer would not have agreed to, since she felt her gilded cage was the only way. But Homura being able to agree, even in principle, even in a scenario where everything is lost anyway, shows Homura is in a healthier place.

I do think we should discuss telling Madoka this is how we agreed to proceed, and that we should clear that with Homura as well before we move on, since that was a key part of the proposal before we started trying to cut down the vote.

[X] Madoka should know this emergency measure is in place.
-[X] The idea of telling her is to encourage Madoka to come talk to one of us if she is feeling tempted, rather than risk Kyubey being able to pressure her into contracting on the spot like with Sayaka.
-[X] Madoka knowing she can pull that trigger and get answers from us if she needs to also means she'll be less likely to listen to Kyubey offering explainations to things we're acting secretive about.
 
Last edited:
Alright, I've found a couple artists that are open for commissions although I'm feeling a bit skittish about it

I have 2 pieces in mind that I want done:

1. Sabrina in her formal suit, posed confidently
2. Sabrina giving Mami a piggyback ride (based on the update when Sabrina first kissed Mami on the cheek), both in their magical girl outfits

Can someone find the update where Sabrina gets the suit? I remember it being described because she had to buy one before meeting the Shizukis but I'm having trouble finding it again
 
Last edited:
StellarMonarch said:
Alright, I've found a couple artists that are open for commissions although I'm feeling a bit skittish about it

I have 2 pieces in mind that I want done:

1. Sabrina in her formal suit, posed confidently
2. Sabrina giving Mami a piggyback ride (based on the update when Sabrina first kissed Mami on the cheek), both in their magical girl outfits

Can someone find the update where Sabrina gets the suit? I remember it being described because she had to buy one before meeting the Shizukis but I'm having trouble finding it again
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I was thinkin of something like all the main girls in suits with fure works or smt.

Hmmm dont remember which chapter that was.
 
Alright, I've got one artist working on a commission. It should be done before the end of the month!

Lopezelpesado said:
I was thinkin of something like all the main girls in suits with fure works or smt.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Artists typically charge per-character so trying to get every character drawn would put me way over my budget.

x

[X] Madoka should know this emergency measure is in place.
-[X] The idea of telling her is to encourage Madoka to come talk to one of us if she is feeling tempted, rather than risk Kyubey being able to pressure her into contracting on the spot like with Sayaka.
-[X] Madoka knowing she can pull that trigger and get answers from us if she needs to also means she'll be less likely to listen to Kyubey offering explainations to things we're acting secretive about.
 
Last edited:
Wyrd said:
We would be willing to do a lot of repairs to make that more viable for Yuki
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's also the warehouse that Oriko was going to hunker down in with Kirika that has water and electricity, though it is missing a fridge.

I think Homura is (maybe) starting to get to the point where she's remembering Madoka as a Magical Girl from the earlier loops and starting to (subconsciously if so, because no way she would conciously admit it even to herself) miss those times and want Madoka fighting by her side again instead of locking her in a gilded cage. So when she sees Madoka being involved and strong willed and helping all at once...but without magic ruining everything....she's finally seeing a way to have both.

Nerevar said:
I do think we should discuss telling Madoka this is how we agreed to proceed, and that we should clear that with Homura as well before we move on, since that was a key part of the proposal before we started trying to cut down the vote.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also yes. Madoka knowing she can get answers in case of emergency is good. She's proven that she won't just ask for curiosities sake before, so we can also trust her not to abuse this either for curiosities sake. Heck, Madoka is the kind of person that might not ask even for an emergencies sake, because she sees making her friends explain their secrets for her sake as selfish/troublesome/being mean to her friends.

[X] Madoka should know this emergency measure is in place.
-[X] The idea of telling her is to encourage Madoka to come talk to one of us if she is feeling tempted, rather than risk Kyubey being able to pressure her into contracting on the spot like with Sayaka.
-[X] Madoka knowing she can pull that trigger and get answers from us if she needs to also means she'll be less likely to listen to Kyubey offering explainations to things we're acting secretive about.
 
Last edited:
Edison_Trent said:
So when she sees Madoka being involved and strong willed and helping all at once...but without magic ruining everything....she's finally seeing a way to have both
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As per usual, I vehemently disagree and think we should aim at DECREASING number of magical girls by any means necessary. 'sides, not being meguca is, again, MADOKA'S wish, not Homura's. Homura was perfectly fine with meguca Madoka until Madoka herself asked Homura to stop her from contracting.


Either way, HAHAHAHAH RAT BASTARD IS SO ROYALLY FUCKED ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY! Oh who I am kidding I AM STILL LAUGHING HAHAHAHAH

We absolutely take those

[X] Nerevar
 
ExploerTM said:
As per usual, I vehemently disagree and think we should aim at DECREASING number of magical girls by any means necessary. 'sides, not being meguca is, again, MADOKA'S wish, not Homura's. Homura was perfectly fine with meguca Madoka until Madoka herself asked Homura to stop her from contracting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This depends rather heavily on what we can come up with to replace the current system. Right now, wishes and meguca are essential, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. The proximal future likely needs to focus on helping girls make the right wishes and ensuring that those who contract go in with open eyes, as Sayaka mostly did. When we can get things stabilized, then our goals can shift to maintaining as small a meguca population as possible without unduly risking everybody, meguca and civilian alike. With where I hope for things to go, wishing becomes something where we want everybody who can contract to do so because they'll add so much to humanity and/or the wider universe without it being a situation where a girl is committing to a horrible death or worse in the name of protecting larger numbers of people.

To rephrase, I want to reform the system so meguca no longer equals suffering, and instead equals hope, for all of us.
 
ExploerTM said:
'sides, not being meguca is, again, MADOKA'S wish, not Homura's. Homura was perfectly fine with meguca Madoka until Madoka herself asked Homura to stop her from contracting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And it got burned into Homura's soul when she had to kill Madoka immediately after.

I want to show Madoka that scene and talk over with her how that's effected Homura, but that's not in the cards until Homura is in a significantly better headspace and okays it, or things go wrong enough that we actually get to that "break glass in case of emergency" situation.
 
Had some ideas. Might be mostly redundant but it can't hurt, right?

[X] Madoka should know this emergency measure is in place.
-[X] The idea of telling her is to encourage Madoka to come talk to one of us if she is feeling tempted, rather than risk Kyubey being able to pressure her into contracting on the spot like with Sayaka.
-[X] Madoka knowing she can pull that trigger and get answers from us if she needs to also means she'll be less likely to listen to Kyubey offering explainations to things we're acting secretive about.
[X] Rest for a bit, let Homura calm down before moving on.
[X] Ask if Homura has tried telling Madoka that she might end the world if she contracts before. We think she hasn't, but we should confirm.
-[X] If all seems good, propose to tell Madoka that she might end the world if she contracts.
-- [X] Sub-proposal: Tell Sayaka about Madoka's world-ending witch?
 
Last edited:
Wyrd said:
This depends rather heavily on what we can come up with to replace the current system. Right now, wishes and meguca are essential, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. The proximal future likely needs to focus on helping girls make the right wishes and ensuring that those who contract go in with open eyes, as Sayaka mostly did. When we can get things stabilized, then our goals can shift to maintaining as small a meguca population as possible without unduly risking everybody, meguca and civilian alike. With where I hope for things to go, wishing becomes something where we want everybody who can contract to do so because they'll add so much to humanity and/or the wider universe without it being a situation where a girl is committing to a horrible death or worse in the name of protecting larger numbers of people.

To rephrase, I want to reform the system so meguca no longer equals suffering, and instead equals hope, for all of us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is all fine except... How are we sure that magic actually doesnt abide by the law of conservation of energy? We talking a lot how magic ignores it and thats why Incubators are started messing with it - which by the way is probably why curses started manifesting in the first place. But is it though? If we assume magic ignores the law then we should be able to take actions without any counteractions occuring. Yet, thats not the case at all. When you use magic you generate grief. Sabrina herself is not exempt from that. More damning evidence is that when Madokami solved witches entirely new type of curses started manifesting en mass instead. If magic truly was the answer to entropy that wouldn't be the case, it was clear counteraction which, again, shouldn't be the case. Incubators pushing away heat death of the universe - supposedly - but they ultimately dont get that energy from nothing; they burn people, their lives like a fuel. Its a renewable source sure, but if it ever runs out thats it. Once every planet was consumed by its own Gretchen which was deemed more profitable than sustaining life, Incubators back at square one, pushed heat death for however far away they did but ultimately solved nothing.

What am I missing? Where are evidence that system can be changed, that girls wont have to throw they lives away in a fight to protect people? We solve witches, wraiths appear. How do we solve those? They are still very much deadly and can kill people. And if solve those too somehow, what stops from something else to appear in turn?

I dont see a way to change system that would stop magical girls putting they lives on a line. And if its fine with you, frankly, I disagree on fundamental level. If we need child soldiers for a system to function - and magical girls are effectively that no matter how many safety nets we try to give them - then its a shitty system that mustnt be changed but dismantled, double tapped in the back of its head, body burned to ashes and ashes dispersed over the ocean.
 
ExploerTM said:
Once every planet was consumed by its own Gretchen which was deemed more profitable than sustaining life, Incubators back at square one, pushed heat death for however far away they did but ultimately solved nothing.

What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pushing back heat death means that during that new time the Incubators bought, new stars and planets will form on which life will be able to arise. The idea is to keep pushing back Heat Death far enough that you guarantee new planets will form that will let you push Heat Death far enough to push Heat Death back far enough to guarantee new planets forming again. This system can, theoretically, last forever.

Of course, what Kyubey failed to recognize is that if you've got a system that is supposed to last forever, it means that Black Swan events like Madokami are not just a possibility, but an inevitability. Roll the dice enough times, and eventually you'll come up snake eyes, and Kyubey's plan is to keep rolling those dice forever. There's a reason I keep calling the rat a compulsive gambler.
ExploerTM said:
I dont see a way to change system that would stop magical girls putting they lives on a line.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Clear Seeds for everyone, and eventually transitioning to Grief Cubes for everyone, but regardless, prevent them from Witching out. After that, hunt down all the remaining Witches. Once they're all dealt with, and Magical Girls don't Witch out creating new Witches, you're done.

You may need a magical police force/emergency mental health intervention team to go hunt down anyone who manages to fall through the cracks and witches out anyway, but most Magical Girls would not need to be involved in that. Becoming a Magical Girl would be strictly beneficial at that point.
 
ExploerTM said:
That is all fine except... How are we sure that magic actually doesnt abide by the law of conservation of energy? We talking a lot how magic ignores it and thats why Incubators are started messing with it - which by the way is probably why curses started manifesting in the first place. But is it though? If we assume magic ignores the law then we should be able to take actions without any counteractions occuring. Yet, thats not the case at all. When you use magic you generate grief. Sabrina herself is not exempt from that. More damning evidence is that when Madokami solved witches entirely new type of curses started manifesting en mass instead. If magic truly was the answer to entropy that wouldn't be the case, it was clear counteraction which, again, shouldn't be the case. Incubators pushing away heat death of the universe - supposedly - but they ultimately dont get that energy from nothing; they burn people, their lives like a fuel. Its a renewable source sure, but if it ever runs out thats it. Once every planet was consumed by its own Gretchen which was deemed more profitable than sustaining life, Incubators back at square one, pushed heat death for however far away they did but ultimately solved nothing.

What am I missing? Where are evidence that system can be changed, that girls wont have to throw they lives away in a fight to protect people? We solve witches, wraiths appear. How do we solve those? They are still very much deadly and can kill people. And if solve those too somehow, what stops from something else to appear in turn?

I dont see a way to change system that would stop magical girls putting they lives on a line. And if its fine with you, frankly, I disagree on fundamental level. If we need child soldiers for a system to function - and magical girls are effectively that no matter how many safety nets we try to give them - then its a shitty system that mustnt be changed but dismantled, double tapped in the back of its head, body burned to ashes and ashes dispersed over the ocean.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You make a lot of assumptions, so many that it is hard to unpack this.

One, put first because it is in the title of the quest: Changing the system is the explicit goal of this whole endeavor.

Second, I've pointed out that using magic creates Grief, so can it flow the other way, can Grief be manipulated to generate raw, untainted emotional energy? Even if the use of magic and Grief occur in a perfectly balanced equation, causing no net increase, we don't need a net increase to accomplish things like making the universe remain habitable for longer.

If emotional energy is the source of things like Wraiths, consider the possibility that the current system is removing a toxic byproduct of human life in the process of creating meguca and Witches. Removing meguca and Witches doesn't necessarily get rid of the problem, but it does get rid of the only tools we know of that can do something about them. Destroying the system without replacing it could spell the death of the entire planet in short order from a build up of toxic emotional energy with no release.

What we can manage with just what we know now, provided we can operate on a sufficiently large scale, would let us train new contractees for years before they needed to fight directly, but the incubators go for teen girls because they have the most potential, which may make contracting teens a necessary evil, that we can then shift so they don't become child soldiers so much as committing to a career path for when they grow up. Mastering De-Witching would be a great step towards making the bargain far less Faustian--not something we want anybody to go through, but like developing medical procedures for physical issues, would let us restore even the ones who fall too quickly for somebody to catch them and prevent the Witch-out.

I'm struggling to articulate the point, but can tell I keep missing it. Maybe I'll be better able to address this tomorrow.
 
Nerevar said:
After that, hunt down all the remaining Witches. Once they're all dealt with, and Magical Girls don't Witch out creating new Witches, you're done.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And what about Wraiths? Without Witches Wraiths started to manifest. Madoka didnt rewrite the system, she just started taking gems before witches could be born. As evident by Rebellion, its still entirely possible to witch out without Madokami's intervention. As long as Wishing exists there would be consequences. So. We solved Witches. How do we solve Wraiths?



Wyrd said:
If emotional energy is the source of things like Wraiths, consider the possibility that the current system is removing a toxic byproduct of human life in the process of creating meguca and Witches. Removing meguca and Witches doesn't necessarily get rid of the problem, but it does get rid of the only tools we know of that can do something about them. Destroying the system without replacing it could spell the death of the entire planet in short order from a build up of toxic emotional energy with no release.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fair about assumptions however you making here exactly the same one. Wraiths weren't a thing before Witches, nothing suggests that (aside from the fact thar humanity wasnt wiped out before Incubators found us) so first curses must've been Witches. Witches are born from Magical Girls ergo without megucas in the equation everything was fine; if Wraiths did exist I have no doubt that Incubators would've tried to use it as a point in favour of their system "I gave you tools to defend yourself".


I dont think we'll be agreeing on the whole thing though, I just realised that my view of magical girls system as nothing more than a cancer to be cured is not something other people share. However you dress it up, I dont see megucas as anything than child soldiers.
 
ExploerTM said:
How do we solve Wraiths?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Make friends with them.

Wraiths absorb emotional energy to create Grief Cubes. Grief is a form of emotional energy. Give the Wraiths Grief to make Grief Cubes out of, then distribute those Grief Cubes to Magical Girls and extract the Grief for the Wraiths to make more Grief Cubes out of. Maybe throw Kyubey a few scraps if we're feeling magnanamous.
ExploerTM said:
I dont think we'll be agreeing on the whole thing though, I just realised that my view of magical girls system as nothing more than a cancer to be cured is not something other people share.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The system as it is certainly is something to be destroyed. The issue you're running into is that people are not seeing the system as it is, Kyubey's grand design, but rather what we could create by smashing it and repurposing the parts.

Not dying when you get shot though the heart is an advantage. Taken in isolation, that aspect of the Magcial Girl system is pretty sweet. Being able to leap tall buildings is awesome, and taken in isolation, again, is a net benefit.

If we can solve the issue of needing to fight and risking Witch Outs, what remains is a good thing.

I will also add that there is the small matter of the Type IV alien civilization that's got an interest in our planet, and in any sort of conventional conflict, humanity is facing a Xeelee stomp. But since humanity has magic which outright breaks the physical laws that the Incubators have mastered, we have a chance to fight back. A chance that goes away if we get rid of all the Magical Girls.
 
ExploerTM said:
As per usual, I vehemently disagree and think we should aim at DECREASING number of magical girls by any means necessary. 'sides, not being meguca is, again, MADOKA'S wish, not Homura's. Homura was perfectly fine with meguca Madoka until Madoka herself asked Homura to stop her from contracting.


Either way, HAHAHAHAH RAT BASTARD IS SO ROYALLY FUCKED ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY! Oh who I am kidding I AM STILL LAUGHING HAHAHAHAH

We absolutely take those

[X] Nerevar
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This idea has come up before, and Firn responded by rejecting it.

Firnagzen said:
OK, I'm just gonna step in real quick and intervene before this becomes a whole thing again.

Bluntly, @PistachioCookies, that's not something I'm interested in seeing or writing. Even leaving aside the thematic thrust of the magical genre of empowering a frequently ignored and sidelined segment of society - look, I want to write something that is, at the end of the day, uplifting. You may quibble about dark topics and dark moments, and sure, I have them. They're planned in to the story, as part of a metaphorical give and take to contrast the bright parts.

Deliberately enforcing the disempowerment of people, especially a group that trades in that power for considerable cost, isn't something that I'm interested in, particularly tying in with your previous post about the matter. The solution to some people being blind is not to poke everyone else's eyes out.

That's my final word on the matter. Drop it, please.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
ExploerTM said:
Fair about assumptions however you making here exactly the same one. Wraiths weren't a thing before Witches, nothing suggests that (aside from the fact thar humanity wasnt wiped out before Incubators found us) so first curses must've been Witches. Witches are born from Magical Girls ergo without megucas in the equation everything was fine; if Wraiths did exist I have no doubt that Incubators would've tried to use it as a point in favour of their system "I gave you tools to defend yourself".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We do not know what happens completely absent the current system or the revised version created by Madokami. Supposedly, humanity is not unusual in possessing emotions but in both possessing them and the ability to organize ourselves into greater groups. Pre-incubators, Wraiths or the equivalent may have occasionally spawned and fed on a tribe or on individuals, but humanity was too wide spread for that to be a major concern. Potentially, the greater human population density has exceeded the natural ability to deal with that emotional byproduct in much the same way industrialization has outstripped the power of nature to soak up human output without major consequences. The existence of Witches and familiars now no more proves that there was no precursor before the incubators' involvement than the majority of life as we know it using DNA for genetic information means that was the first method life developed for the purpose.

As for '"I gave you tools to defend yourself".', Kyuubey does make that claim, that curses are natural and that meguca are needed to fight them. It omits that the current form of things came about because of incubator manipulations, but this is a setting where emotion has an impact on the physical universe. This isn't just a theoretical concept, or something taken on faith, it is the literal, empirical truth of reality as it exists within the story.

Romka said:
This idea has come up before, and Firn responded by rejecting it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Alright, going back and removing a large chunk of what I just wrote, I leave only the part that speculates on what the world might be like without the system, as that is relevant to this story, I think. If I'd hit post just a few minutes sooner...
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top