This is false, Wraith didn't appear because witches weren't there, they appeared because Madoka made a wish that rewrote the universe and the universe reacted. Your causation is wrong.
If we simply make it so that magical girls don't witch out by giving them enough cleansing, there is no reasons for wraiths to manifest.
Edit:
To expand on Wraiths: they aren't there about curses, this is a side effect, they are there to absorb emotions to try to avoid a new Madoka case from happening.
It just so happens that grief is an emotion too, that's it.
Well, given that Witching out is worse than getting third degree burns on 90% of your body, anything we can do to reduce the number of de-Witchings we need to perform is likely to be a good thing. That safety net is important if we can't make it so that Witches never form at all, but you really, really don't want de-Witching to be necessary.
And if we get that far, the next order of business should be figuring out how to extend the benefits of being magical to everyone rather than just girls who have sufficient potential. Both because a world where some people are born with the potential to become immortal superbeings and some people aren't is just inherently unfair and because if magic is humanity's one advantage against Kyubey, it makes sense to have as much of it as possible.
And if we get that far, the next order of business should be figuring out how to extend the benefits of being magical to everyone rather than just girls who have sufficient potential. Both because a world where some people are born with the potential to become immortal superbeings and some people aren't is just inherently unfair and because if magic is humanity's one advantage against Kyubey, it makes sense to have as much of it as possible.
Also probably worth considering that potential as Kyubey defines it is about optimizing his bottom line, not about how much power the girl in question would get access to, except as a possible side effect.
The reason Magical Girls' power runs on Hope is explicitly because Kyubey determined he gets the most energy from the state change from Hope to Despair. Other emotions can also fuel magic as we see with Homufer's devil transformation.
Sabrina detects Potential as elevated levels of Grief in an otherwise normal human, but since Madoka does not read as noticeably different from other potentials, we're obviously not detecting the karmic potential, but some other aspect. I propose that what Sabrina is detecting is the emotional inclination to enter into a Grief Spiral, which is a key criteria Kyubey cares about, but has nothing to do with the person's actual karmic potential.
There's actually every possibility that everyone is compatible with the process of becoming a Magical Girl, and the overwhelming majority would never witch out, and Kyubey is deliberately targeting only those who would. Under this hypothesis, the people we detect as potentials would actually be the people who contracting would be counterindicated for. And they might be more stable under a modified Magical Girl system running on emotions other than Hope.
Also probably worth considering that potential as Kyubey defines it is about optimizing his bottom line, not about how much power the girl in question would get access to, except as a possible side effect.
The reason Magical Girls' power runs on Hope is explicitly because Kyubey determined he gets the most energy from the state change from Hope to Despair. Other emotions can also fuel magic as we see with Homufer's devil transformation.
Sabrina detects Potential as elevated levels of Grief in an otherwise normal human, but since Madoka does not read as noticeably different from other potentials, we're obviously not detecting the karmic potential, but some other aspect. I propose that what Sabrina is detecting is the emotional inclination to enter into a Grief Spiral, which is a key criteria Kyubey cares about, but has nothing to do with the person's actual karmic potential.
This, though, might warrant asking the author about: @Firnagzen Does Sabrina detect Madoka's potential the same way she can feel it in others? Primarily, I'm asking if this is a detail you didn't mention in story since we already knew how much potential she has, rather than trying to skip a vote on the issue, but whether Nerevar is right here can make a huge difference in how we perceive the very concept of magical girl potential.
One bit I found regarding Sabrina sensing Madoka/other people (on the AO3 archive, viewing the entire story on one webpage is very useful):
"There're your friends, Sayaka and Homura walking a space apart with the shade of Grief that's probably Madoka between them. You can't sense Hitomi, but that's not surprising."
Honestly, I expect both to be hard and to have unexpected consequences.
Just going from intuition, making it so that MGs don't witch out requires soul edits which requires a soul mage, which means experimentation. As far as I can tell, we do *not* have a soul mage available so . . .
A more stopgap measure would be to attach a cleansing device or have a CubeBot equivalent.
(Actually, I think cleansing is automatic for grief seeds so we could just have a seed next to someone's gem at all times; they should be good for a while)
Actually, this seems like a good idea that we can do now with our clear seed supply
A more stopgap measure would be to attach a cleansing device or have a CubeBot equivalent.
(Actually, I think cleansing is automatic for grief seeds so we could just have a seed next to someone's gem at all times; they should be good for a while)
Actually, this seems like a good idea that we can do now with our clear seed supply
This reminds me of the fact that Soul Gems are still visible from all angles of a 4D rotation. It should thus be possible to attach a Clear Seed inside Hammerspace to the Soul Gem that forms the center of that 4D axis. Visually, it would look no different from within our standard 3D perspective, but it would effectively auto cleanse even during the middle of combat.
This might be something to look into in the event Madoka does end up contracting, given her odd tendency to Witch Out in a single shot in later loops.
We'd want to do some more observation of Soul Gem hyper geometry in its various states to make sure the brace holding the Clear Seed to the Soul Gem didn't come loose in the change between its ring, egg, or transformed states.
Honestly, I expect both to be hard and to have unexpected consequences.
Just going from intuition, making it so that MGs don't witch out requires soul edits which requires a soul mage, which means experimentation. As far as I can tell, we do *not* have a soul mage available so . . .
A more stopgap measure would be to attach a cleansing device or have a CubeBot equivalent.
(Actually, I think cleansing is automatic for grief seeds so we could just have a seed next to someone's gem at all times; they should be good for a while)
Actually, this seems like a good idea that we can do now with our clear seed supply
Clear Seeds are still the souls of children, so not a great long term solution. I'm disinclined to think that editing gems via soul magic is a viable and moral, choice. I think what's most likely to work is us learning enough about the system to make one calculated wish that can actually work instead of the broken state Madokami created. It was worlds better than the current system, but if we knew enough, we could surely do even better, and let Madoka and Homura have their happy ending, too.
My theory there is that since her power is so far off the scale, even her most basic attacks are the equivalent of a level 9001 finisher and generate Grief accordingly.
This reminds me of the fact that Soul Gems are still visible from all angles of a 4D rotation. It should thus be possible to attach a Clear Seed inside Hammerspace to the Soul Gem that forms the center of that 4D axis. Visually, it would look no different from within our standard 3D perspective, but it would effectively auto cleanse even during the middle of combat.
Since Grief Seeds are derived from Soul Gems and we've been basing our dewitching research on their similarities, I would expect that they share the property of remaining in place through typical 4D manipulations. Though come to think of it Sabrina might be storing our grief seed hoard in hammerspace without batting an eye, so if anyone has a story citation to prove me wrong please do so.
My theory there is that since her power is so far off the scale, even her most basic attacks are the equivalent of a level 9001 finisher and generate Grief accordingly.
That's my thought exactly, especially considering the Tart Magica spinoff. The protagonist there wields devastating force that can obliterate witches in a few blows but at a huge magic expense. Imagine raising that to a power of 100+. As a completely clouded gem can no longer be purified conventionally, no amount of recovery is enough if the capacity fills instantly. That doesn't diminish the usefulness if this method of auto cleanse is in fact possible, but I wouldn't trust it to be a failsafe for Madoka.
On that note, have we tried just duct taping the Clear Seeds to a soul gem in realspace?
Since Grief Seeds are derived from Soul Gems and we've been basing our dewitching research on their similarities, I would expect that they share the property of remaining in place through typical 4D manipulations. Though come to think of it Sabrina might be storing our grief seed horde in hammerspace without batting an eye, so if anyone has a story citation to prove me wrong please do so.
If I recall correctly, we don't have a Grief Seed hoard, because we've given away almost all of them as Clear Seeds, and have done very little Witch hunting in the time since to replenish that. There are a couple we are holding onto explicitly, like the one we've been pouring hope flavoured Grief into, but that's it, to the extent we generally ask the people we want to give a Clear Seed to to provide the Grief Seed from which it is made.
No. You're far from the first person to suggest this in thread, but it has not come up directly in the story, I think. When Kirika was constantly hitting Oriko with her antimagic to counter the pain Oriko was in was the closest we've seen to that.
Clear Seeds are still the souls of children, so not a great long term solution. I'm disinclined to think that editing gems via soul magic is a viable and moral, choice. I think what's most likely to work is us learning enough about the system to make one calculated wish that can actually work instead of the broken state Madokami created. It was worlds better than the current system, but if we knew enough, we could surely do even better, and let Madoka and Homura have their happy ending, too.
Note: A Wish to change the nature of things *still* counts as an edit in my book. Like, you're still tinkering with people's souls.
My opinion is that we're going to need to do it eventually, especially given our other ambitions. We might as well see about doing it as safely as we can.
On the clear seeds . . . Well, yea it's a bit of a temporary measure. However, we have nothing better at the moment.
If I recall correctly, we don't have a Grief Seed hoard, because we've given away almost all of them as Clear Seeds, and have done very little Witch hunting in the time since to replenish that. There are a couple we are holding onto explicitly, like the one we've been pouring hope flavoured Grief into, but that's it, to the extent we generally ask the people we want to give a Clear Seed to to provide the Grief Seed from which it is made.
I disagree, in the sense that we aren't changing the soul, we're changing the system currently exploiting their souls. To me, this is a very important distinction. Kyuubey doesn't understand souls, really, it just has a way to capture and direct a soul's output; it's humans who developed soul magic from that system.
Wasn't this the thing that danced too close to Homura's Potential Bomb? Madoka ending the world because of her power wasn't always a thing, and Homura's smart enough to figure out why if the question lands in her lap.
[X] Madoka should know this emergency measure is in place.
-[X] The idea of telling her is to encourage Madoka to come talk to one of us if she is feeling tempted, rather than risk Kyubey being able to pressure her into contracting on the spot like with Sayaka.
-[X] Madoka knowing she can pull that trigger and get answers from us if she needs to also means she'll be less likely to listen to Kyubey offering explainations to things we're acting secretive about.
Wasn't this the thing that danced too close to Homura's Potential Bomb? Madoka ending the world because of her power wasn't always a thing, and Homura's smart enough to figure out why if the question lands in her lap.
[X] Propose to now tell Madoka that she might end the world if she contracts
- [X] How do you address Homura's fear?
-- [X] Ask if Homura has tried telling Madoka about this before. We think she hasn't, but we should confirm.
-- [X] Homura understands Madoka is a selfless person. Risks to herself will be less motivating to Madoka than risks to other people would be.
-- [X] We don't have to reveal the witchbomb to tell her this is a risk and can instead explain this as the Madoka specific risk it is.
-- [X] We don't have to reveal the loops if Homura's not ready to talk about that, and we can say it's from Sabrina's metaknowledge.
[x] Make some calls
-[X] Ask if Rin is willing to help Niko with the Soujus victims
-[X] Contact the Murasaki Shrine Maidens and schedule a meeting for tomorrow
--[X] Decide whether to meet them on the way to the Kagoshima group meeting or on the way back.
You let Homura gather herself, keeping your hands on hers even as the silence spreads. It's no small thing that she just granted you, and you're about to ask of her something greater still. But even so, you feel somewhat relieved, a burden lightened.
Madoka believes in her friends. You know that to be true: even above her own drive to make something of her life, even with the burden of knowing exactly how she might be able to make a difference, she's willing to let her friends handle things, if they ask. She's willing to wait, as long as someone else is doing something.
As long as you stand, as long as Homura, and Mami, and Sayaka are around, you don't think it'll come to Madoka making a Wish. As you promised Homura, you'll do everything you can to prevent it. But if.
If.
If it should come to that, you now have one more thing to try. To let Madoka know what it would cost, to know how much Homura loves her and how much it would hurt her. Madoka would listen, you know that she will. You don't know how those cards would fall, how things would have played out and what Madoka would decide... but it's one more card for you to play.
But that's for later. For now, you keep your attention on Homura, squeezing her hands gently to remind her that she is not alone. You'll shoulder everything you can for her, but only she can fight the battles in her mind.
"Do you think..." Homura's voice falters halfway through her sentence, her jaw clenching shut as she shakes her head wordlessly. But you know what she wanted to ask, anyway. It's written in the tense set of her shoulders, the way her eyes dart from you, to the stairwell, to her hands in yours, imperceptibly shaking.
"Honestly, I can't tell you for absolutely sure," you admit. "I can't see the future, you know? But I am going to do everything I possibly can to prevent her from being in a situation where she feels like she has to make a Wish. And it's not like we're doing it alone, right? We have our friends to help us too. They don't understand everything that's at stake, but they know enough to agree that Wishes come with some... hefty downsides."
Homura nods jerkily, and you hold your tongue, letting her absorb that. Rather than break the silence, you motion gently towards her Soul Gem with a thumb, and at her nod, wipe away the gathering Grief, her shoulders relaxing almost imperceptibly. It takes her a few minutes before she lifts her eyes to meet yours again.
"... did you have something else in mind?" she asks quietly.
"Yeah," you say. "It's... this one's a bit more of an ask, but as before: it won't happen without your permission. OK?"
You hold her gaze until she nods. Because you don't want to pressure Homura into this: you're asking for her permission, not trying to browbeat her into agreeing with you. Maybe you're being too cautious, too tentative, maybe you're belabouring the point too much, but it's Homura. Sayaka called her your best friend, and she's not really wrong, is she?
"Alright," you say, blowing out a breath. "I... I want to ask for your permission to tell Madoka, now, that if she contracts, she might end the world."
A sharp breath.
"No," Homura blurts, her hands clamping down on yours with bruising force, her face freezing like graven stone. "I- no."
Snap decision. You race through your logic in your mind, thoughts cascading through your mind: that perhaps Homura hadn't tried it before. That it would stay Madoka's hand. It certainly is a strong argument against Madoka contracting, and one that she would heed. After all, she's always been willing to sacrifice herself on behalf of others; the thought of hurting so, so many, even beyond Homura, would definitely bump the idea of contracting far, far down the list of things Madoka's willing to commit to. You wouldn't even have to reveal anything of Homura's loops to do so. You could play it off as your own weird knowledge, and Madoka would accept that.
It's not good enough.
Not in the face of that stricken look. Not in the face of Homura crumbling like this. Not in the face of planting a foot square in the middle of Homura's fears and trauma, of that single worst case scenario Homura fears above all.
Because trauma isn't rational.
And all you have are rational arguments.
"Then I won't," you say simply. "I wanted your permission, Homura, and you're not ok with it, so I won't."
Perhaps you pushed too far, too hard, too fast. Perhaps having Homura dwell on the worst case scenarios, having Homura have to consider a case where Madoka might Wish and then Witch out was a step too far. Perhaps if you'd given Homura more time, perhaps if there was anything better you could reassure her with. Platitudes that it won't come to that, that you're making progress now, can only go so far against seeing Madoka fall over, and over, and over again.
"Homura, I'm going to hug you, alright?" you say, and wait for her that jerky nod before pulling her into a gentle hug. She keeps one hand on yours, your bones creaking under the force of her grip even as she hangs limply in your arms, but that's fine. You keep an eye on her Soul Gem, of course, tracking the ooze of Grief.
The thing is...
The thing is, this might be the closest Homura's been with Madoka ever since that fateful third loop. Rationally, you're only asking to tell Madoka something. But irrationally, you think, is that Homura remembers what happened, and she's just... unable to entertain the idea at all. Even if you don't get it, you get it.
There might be a better way to approach this topic, but not now. Not today.
What's important now is that you make sure Homura's OK. So you stay like that, rubbing her back gently, and biting back your impulse to apologise. You can't claim that you're perfect, nowhere close, especially not now, but you can be here for her, and not blather on while she's trying to recover her equilibrium. Hopefully that's enough.
"It's not gonna happen," you murmur. You're not sure whether you're talking about Madoka contracting, or about Madoka Witching out, or just about telling her, or maybe some combination of all three, but you mean it, nevertheless.
Homura takes a long, shuddering breath, and nods, easing back from you.
"Take your time," you encourage gently, smiling at her. "I'm here, and we're in no rush, yeah?"
"I'm- fine," she mutters, head down. "I- I believe you."
"Thank you," you say. She hasn't released you from that death grip, but you ignore that to settle your free hand over hers and squeeze gently. "I'm sorry to have caused you pain, Homura."
She shakes her head wordlessly, rejecting your apology.
"Your happiness and health matters too," you say quietly. "It matters to Madoka. You know that that's true. It matters to me, it matters to Mami, to Sayaka, to Hitomi. You matter. I... have my reasons, for asking what I did, and... maybe we can talk about it another time, if you feel up to it, but you matter, Homura. I'm sorry for hurting you."
Homura swallows. Then, slowly, she nods.
You'll take that as progress. You let the conversation lapse once more, not feeling the need to fill the air, and you simply watch as Homura regathers herself in the greyed-out hues of her timestop over the next few minutes. The tension ebbs, but it never quite leaves the set of her shoulders, nor the lines around her eyes, but her breathing steadies, and her gaze rises to meet yours again, her jaw setting as if bracing for something.
"What's next?" she asks quietly.
"That's it," you say, smiling. "That's all I wanted to ask, this time 'round."
You had notions of telling Hitomi now about the true origin of Witches, and you still sort of want to, but you don't want to stress Homura out more. You'll find some time to catch Hitomi for it later, perhaps this evening. And honestly, telling Hitomi that and then packing her off to class seems like a bit of a dick move.
Homura gives you a long, long look, studying your expression, then nods once more.
"OK," she murmurs. "Thank you."
"Though, er, there is one thing," you say, smiling sheepishly, and continue before she can do more than begin to brace herself. "Er. Could you let go of my hand?"
Homura twitches, her eyes snapping to your hand, and convulsively lets go. You wince as the blood floods back into your fingers, flexing them as your bones pop.
"... sorry," Homura mutters, ducking her head.
"It was my fault in the first place," you say. But when you clap her gently on the shoulder, it's with your other hand. "How are you feeling, Homura?"
"Tired," she says.
"Yeah, that's... yeah," you say, sighing. Emotionally wrung out, not that Homura thinks of it in those terms. "Take your time."
She grimaces and shakes her head, looking away from you, and over to Mami's frozen form, her gaze linger for a long moment.
"You've changed a lot," she murmurs quietly. "It's... good. Things are improving. But..."
"The uncertainty?" you ask.
She nods.
"Welcome to the club," you say with a crooked grin. "I worry too, a lot. I'm doing the best I can with what I've got, and I focus on what's important. Our friends, and on our goals. That's all any of us can do, I reckon. I..." You smile, shaking your head. "It's not like I've got all the answers or anything. I've got a different perspective, and, well, the magic to back it up. And those are advantages, but only that. Not an I-win button or anything of the sort."
"... good," Homura says. Somehow, she seems relieved by the answer, some of the tension dissipating from her shoulders. "I'm... glad you're here."
"I'm glad I'm here too," you say, your smile becoming more natural. "Thank you, Homura, and... well, I can't promise I'm perfect. But I'll keep doing my best."
Another measured nod, and Homura takes a deep breath, rising to her feet.
"I should get back to Madoka," she says.
"You're sure you'll be OK?" you ask, scrutinizing her as you likewise stand.
"Yes," she says.
"Then see you later, Homura," you say, smiling and deliberately stepping back, letting your nanofog drift out of contact with Hom-
-ura.
You exhale into the roar of the city, all the louder for its abrupt return. The midday sun blazes overhead, warmth beating down upon you to rival the dazzling smile Mami greets you with, and you beam back at her.
"How did it go?" she asks.
"Mixed, but generally good, I'd say," you answer, opening your arms. "Some things to follow up on later, but that's par for the course."
"Mmmhm," Mami agrees, smiling as she steps over to accept your wordless invitation and burrows into your arms. "So, what's next, Sabrina?"
[x] Make some calls
-[X] Ask if Rin is willing to help Niko with the Soujus victims
-[X] Contact the Murasaki Shrine Maidens and schedule a meeting for tomorrow
--[X] Decide whether to meet them on the way to the Kagoshima group meeting or on the way back.
[] Visit the Iowa group leader
[] Track down Kyouko and Yuma
- [] Continue the hunt
- [] Figure out whether Kyouko and Yuma want Yuma to go to school
- [] Something else?
[] SCIENCE!
- [] What?
[] Something else...
- [] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
-[X] Update the others on our itinerary.
--[X] When I leave here, I'm going to visit the Iowa group leader
---[X] I want to know what she has to say before our meeting with Shin this evening to explain what happened to him and Nagisa.
--[X] After I'll get the cake we promised to bring to the meeting with the Kagoshima group tomorrow at 4
--[X] I'll find Kyoko and Yuma after that
---[X] Homura, do you think your hacker friend could sort out the paperwork to get Yuma into school? I'll float the idea to Kyoko and Yuma if so.
=====
So I'm hoping to cover the calls in the next update and move on to the next thing, but we all know how I am with that. We'll see.
-[X] Update the others on our itinerary.
--[X] When I leave here, I'm going to visit the Iowa group leader
---[X] I want to know what she has to say before our meeting with Shin this evening to explain what happened to him and Nagisa.
--[X] After I'll get the cake we promised to bring to the meeting with the Kagoshima group tomorrow at 4
--[X] I'll find Kyoko and Yuma after that
---[X] Homura, do you think your hacker friend could sort out the paperwork to get Yuma into school? I'll float the idea to Kyoko and Yuma if so.
Derp. I admit, I completely lost track of that, so thanks. I'll tweak the post as written. Though I'll say that getting the cake is definitely something that'll happen as a side-thing; not exactly a main focus.
Derp. I admit, I completely lost track of that, so thanks. I'll tweak the post as written. Though I'll say that getting the cake is definitely something that'll happen as a side-thing; not exactly a main focus.
You mean you're not writing three updates and twenty-thousand words of Sabrina and Mami going cake shopping and discussing the merits of each cake on offer? I am disappointed in you.
You mean you're not writing three updates and twenty-thousand words of Sabrina and Mami going cake shopping and discussing the merits of each cake on offer? I am disappointed in you.
