kyubey seemed to imply that walpurgisnaught is the end of the road for hire since it is the ultimate foe..... somehow
not sure how
"she became the ultimate magical girl and vanquished the ultimate foe, the only thing left for her was to become the most terrible witch the world has ever seen"

[edit] then again you know how well Kyubey and salt mines to togerher
 
Idle thought: Does increased potential explain why Madoka seems to instantly run out of magic when she orbital magic bombards Walpurgis, or is that just Madoka dumping everything into the attack?

I figure Madoka always has to dump everything she has into the attack because WPN is a cheating cheater who cheats. Unless your build is fully optimized and powerful enough to mote-tap the Witch, you have to go through her unique Flaw of Invulnerability -- only a heroic sacrifice of some kind or another can get through her Inevitable Tragedian Invincibility.

Homura's Revenge confirms that Madoka has a bigger Soul Gem capacity than other Magical Girls, and Homura is able to keep Madoka from witching out by paying some of the cost for a combo attack, and nearly witches out because of it.

Walpy just needs that much bullshit to take down, because SOMEONE'S gotta suffer a heroic tragic victory for her drama.
 
why do I get a distinct impression that Walmart night has been letting madoka win because she thinks it will make a fantastic story instead of madoka beating her outright
hell Mami, madoka, and homura managed to defeat wally in the second timeline, despite the three of them combines being so much weaker than madoka in newer timelines

more to the point how do we shut down a theater performance put on by an absolute lunatic when we are all characters in said play against our wills
 
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I...wow

I remember waiting for this moment the whole time I was catching up. This moment has been a long time coming, and while I'm still not really up to participating anymore, this is enough to get me actively reading again
 
Dawn breaks. Just as the last star begins to fade, a drop of starlight falls from the sky. The twinkling light streaks down, but just before impact, it slows. The light swirls, before coalescing in…

Hello, everybody! It took me a couple months, but I finally managed to catch up AND join in! And, oh boy, do I have THOUGHTS.

First and foremost: We've been using Momdoka and Mado-kaa-san, but WHY HAVEN'T WE BEEN USING Mado-mama or Mado-mommy? I mean, the second one even rhymes with Madokami!

Second: Why haven't we been using Homu-mama? Or Homu-mommy? Need I even say what the second one rhymes with there?

Third: Hug Mami. That's it. That's #3. Move on— NO WAIT… give her a kiss on the cheek, too.

Fourth: We should try to make Chibi-clones of our friends some time just to mess with them… though too many clones at once may be too much for Sabrina… hmmm… let's leave this one on the back burner.

Fifth: This is right out.

Sixth: Why haven't we called the grief dome we use to evade prying eyes "Twilight Zone", "Zona Crepuscolare", or "Confini della Realtà" (Reality's Borders/Borders of Reality/Boundaries of Reality AKA the actual Italian name for The Twilight Zone series)? And I thought names were serious business… and yes, I'm the guy that @Cae Lumis has been trying to bring into the game.

Speaking of serious business…

Hug Mami again.

And now for current events.

I am so happy for Homura that she has managed to make such a huge step forward for herself. As much as we want Homura to continue opening up, we shouldn't push her to speak too much more. That being said, I really like the idea @HeroCycle had. Asking her about something slightly more lighthearted pertaining to the loops could ease the tension, even just a little bit, and give Homura and Mami something extra to connect with. So, I'm adding that to my vote.

Before doing that, though, maybe we should have Sabrina wait just a moment and let Homura and Mami steer the discussion, just in case it seems either has more they want to say that we might otherwise cut off if we end the discussion early or try to steer it too much?

It should go without saying that we should mentally brace ourselves for when Mami starts asking Sabrina questions about the timebomb (I know everybody uses loopbomb, but I like the pun) since we know so much and she might be afraid that they would be too sensitive to ask Homura directly.

As a goal for the next time we see Homura (as she's already been through enough during the course of this conversation), we need to ask her more about the end of the last loop and the start of this loop. We've been putting this off for too long. There may in fact be no useful information that Homura could provide us on that, but if we don't ask, we won't know. There is one topic in particular about the last loop that @Cae Lumis and I talked about in private, but the implications of it would be utterly horrific if it were true... just where was Kyuubey when Homura last looped?

The rules of Homura's Revenge ARE on, after all.

Also, we should see if Homura can remember what Madoka specifically wished for last loop, or if "fix everything" was all she could remember. EDIT: Okay, so my memory for this bit was fuzzier than I first thought, so I'm just gonna' strike this through and leave it on the back burner.

Last, but not least, we need a more solid plan for Souju sisters. There are less than four days left before they will likely arrive. They may, in fact, arrive a day or two early. Or they may arrive a day or two late. The point is that Oriko said may, not will. We need a plan more tangible than "Timestop and gem her." We know very little about their skillset, not to mention that they may have new abilities added just to spice things up.

Yes, four days in-game translates to a lot of time in the real world, but I'm concerned that we're being too blasé about this. This is a threat we actually have warning about ahead of time. We need to be proactive about this, not reactive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the very thing Firn has warned us about.

At the very least, we should ensure that everybody on our side is warned ahead of time about the Souju sisters. Especially the Asunaro girls. Especially anybody that happens to be in their general path. We should also poke Oriko to see how her Clairvoyance powers are developing.

But enough doom and gloom from me, at least for now. My vote:

[] Don't end the discussion immediately. Give the two a moment to breathe and add to the story/ask questions at their own pace, in case there happens to be anything more they want to say.
[] Ask Homura to tell the story of how she came to use firearms. Then, if she didn't already, prompt her to explain why.
[] Tell Homura we're proud of her.
-[] Sincerely thank Homura for trusting Mami— for trusting us.
-[] Get permission for hugs all around.
-[] Double-check for Soul Gem cleansings.
[] Vote in abeyance.
 
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more to the point how do we shut down a theater performance put on by an absolute lunatic when we are all characters in said play against our wills
I'm pretty sure I've actually seen or heard of at least one actual real-world play that breaks the fourth wall in more or less exactly that way.

EDIT: Okay, Into the Woods has some characters convince the Giant to kill the Narrator, that might count, except I haven't actually seen that so it's not what I was thinking of. Nothing else on tvtropes' list comes close, nor is anything I've seen, so not sure what I was thinking of.
 
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I figure Madoka always has to dump everything she has into the attack because WPN is a cheating cheater who cheats. Unless your build is fully optimized and powerful enough to mote-tap the Witch, you have to go through her unique Flaw of Invulnerability -- only a heroic sacrifice of some kind or another can get through her Inevitable Tragedian Invincibility.

This is the best explanation of Walpurgisnacht I've seen so far.
 
more to the point how do we shut down a theater performance put on by an absolute lunatic when we are all characters in said play against our wills
Act so badly the director kills herself.
Also, we should see if Homura can remember what Madoka specifically wished for last loop, or if "fix everything" was all she could remember.
"That everything could be fixed" is what Madoka specifically wished for.
 
Act so badly the director kills herself.
"That everything could be fixed" is what Madoka specifically wished for.
first off, that issue is that if we are the characters in the play then how do we know we aren't unintentionally following the script, thus is a witch with control over narrative causality
second I've always seen the most importabt part of madokas wish not being the everything part, but the 'can' bit
things aren't guaranteed, heck it'll still be an uphill battle, but we not have a fighting chance we never had before
we have an actual, tangible, likely shot at winning that we never had before
 
Dawn breaks. Just as the last star begins to fade, a drop of starlight falls from the sky. The twinkling light streaks down, but just before impact, it slows. The light swirls, before coalescing in…
Fresh meat!

Sixth: Why haven't we called the grief dome we use to evade prying eyes "Twilight Zone", "Zona Crepuscolare", or "Confini della Realtà" (Reality's Borders/Borders of Reality/Boundaries of Reality AKA the actual Italian name for The Twilight Zone series). And I thought names were serious business… and yes, I'm the guy that @Cae Lumis has been trying to bring into the game.

Speaking of serious business…

Hug Mami again.
You'll fit right in.
 
more to the point how do we shut down a theater performance put on by an absolute lunatic when we are all characters in said play against our wills

I'm pretty sure I've actually seen or heard of at least one actual real-world play that breaks the fourth wall in more or less exactly that way.

It's structurally difficult for the characters in a play to convincingly rise above their author and director when the author isn't involved in the performance, the director isn't an established character, and the actors are obligated to remain upon the stage by pragmatics (e.g. visibility to the audience), but it has been done many times before, frequently but not always by making use of story-within-a-story framing devices. Willy Wonka leaves his own play behind for the real world in the 2013 production of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, for one example, and the lonely and despondent narrator of Martin and McKellar's The Drowsy Chaperone is comforted by the characters of the story he narrates, who reach out to him at the end of their play, and seem to take him into their world, or lift themselves into his.

As one of the many productions that Martin and McKellar were parodying, Prokofiev's L'amour des Trois Oranges breaks the fourth wall even more comprehensively and significantly, helping to set the stage for future metatheatrical modernist productions with an on-stage audience (or an 'audience', if you prefer) that splits into multiple quarreling factions and actually goes so far as to intervene in the plot by saving the life of the Princess that the Prince has spent so long looking for. This presentation of metatheatrical influence from beyond the fourth wall is deconstructed and subsequently inverted by the likes of Pirandello's revolutionary Sei Personaggi in Cerca d'Autore, where six fictional characters are empowered to rise to prominence in the narrative and command a director to complete their stories, to say nothing of Dehussy's infamous Stuck At Home, where the play's eccentric playwright exiles an interfering audience from his stage, only to later find himself gunned down and replaced by one of his own curmudgeonly characters.
 
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... Okay, I guess I'm going to have to go back and reread it then, but it was this post:

OK, you know what? I'll put this particular one to an end. This is my view, and canon to PMAS.

Yes, Homura can bring Grief Seeds back with her. No, she doesn't have very many, because while she's efficient, it's still hard to run on a surplus of Grief Seeds. (Keep in mind? The number of loops is large, not infinite.)

And she tries her utmost not to dip into that reserve pile save for desperate times, like when it comes time to fight against Walpurgisnacht, if only because she doesn't want to reveal to Kyuubey that she's a time traveler.

Also, the Grief Seeds she tends to keep and tries hardest not to use are those of the Mitakihara group. Sayaka, Kyouko, Mami, but not Madoka's. Never Madoka's.

... Okay, yeah, I guess I misread "never Madoka's" as never using Madoka's grief seed rather than "Never acquiring."

Um... Oops?
 
It's structurally difficult for the characters in a play to convincingly rise above their author and director when the author isn't involved in the performance, the director isn't an established character, and the actors are obligated to remain upon the stage by pragmatics (e.g. visibility to the audience), but it has been done many times before, frequently but not always by making use of story-within-a-story framing devices. Willy Wonka leaves his own play behind for the real world in the 2013 production of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, for one example, and the lonely and despondent narrator of Martin and McKellar's The Drowsy Chaperone is comforted by the characters of the story he narrates, who reach out to him at the end of their play, and seem to take him into their world, or lift themselves into his.

As one of the many productions that Martin and McKellar were parodying, Prokofiev's L'amour des Trois Oranges breaks the fourth wall even more comprehensively and significantly, helping to set the stage for future metatheatrical modernist productions with an on-stage audience (or an 'audience', if you prefer) that splits into multiple quarreling factions and actually goes so far as to intervene in the plot by saving the life of the Princess that the Prince has spent so long looking for. This presentation of metatheatrical influence from beyond the fourth wall is deconstructed and subsequently inverted by the likes of Pirandello's revolutionary Sei Personaggi in Cerca d'Autore, where six fictional characters are empowered to rise to prominence in the narrative and command a director to complete their stories, to say nothing of Dehussy's infamous Stuck At Home, where the play's eccentric playwright exiles an interfering audience from his stage, only to later find himself gunned down and replaced by one of his own curmudgeonly characters.

And then there's Puella Magi Madoka Magica. I assume we all here know the story of how Madoka forced Urobuchi to write a much happier ending than he had planned.
 
wait what the heck!? I've never heard of this and I have a burning need

The original ending was darker
Madoka kills Walpurgisnacht, then vanishes
The epilogue is several years later in a postapocalyptic landscape and Homura laments she failed to protect the world Madoka entrusted to her, and is about to die/Witch Out

So yeah, episode 12 is a happy ending

Edit: huh, I'm not sure where I got exact specifics from
Though I suspect

Well, the only provable thing is that Urobuchi has gone on the record to say that the original ending was darker than what he wrote in the end
 
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Well this was a nice thing to come back from work to.

Looks... like everything went pretty swimmingly so that's cool.

No idea what else is happening so...

[jk] hug people. And than find a random stranger and give them the local equivalent of 20 dollars.

Because that's what this update felt like.
 
you know? I've been thinking
the past dozen or so updates, we always seem to start micromanaging over what we should do and how badly people will take things.
and then things turn out alright, and our friends are understanding
I think that we really should start trusting our friends more, like, they aren't unstable or going to fall apart or be unreasonable
like, both us and homura were worried as hell about Mami learning about the loops
and when the time came to tell her Mami's reaction can basically be summed up as "ah, that makes sense now that I think about it" and then she started to comfort homura because she knows what its like to be isolated and not being able to talk to people even when you're not technically alone
not to say we should start telling people everything, but like, we should have more faith in our friends



but hot damn, this is amazing, not so much the update itself, but the fact that this means that things are actually better now, that were all getting along and aren't walking a knifes edge, that mom is starting to trust again, that Sayaka, Sayaka of all people, has almost unwavering faith in everyone, and is holding strong, even after the veneer of wonder is gone
its amazing, its honestly touching on a level I can scarcely verbalize
 
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