The hypothesis that's come up since we got that warning, namely that Madoka wished for "everything to be fixed" because Homura witched out, has some potential merit to it in my opinion. If we take that to be the case, then the potentialbomb acting as an infohazard above and beyond canon does make sense.
 
The last time we planned to potentialbomb Homura, up to and including putting it in votes, we got a sternly worded QM warning instead of an update.



I frankly still have no fucking clue how we're supposed to "defuse" QB from telling Homura the potentialbomb like Oriko asked us to if doing it ourselves isn't the answer, but that's the current situation.


Basically this, yeah.

Could we maybe deal with the present several sensitive issues before we open a can of worms we were QM-warned about? And maybe not open that can of worms immediately after a stressful conversation? I don't think anyone is suggesting to vote it up now, but if we get into this talk on the thread, then Sabrina gets it into her head, and it could get put on the docket a lot sooner than I think might be wise, or even polite. That's not to say I'm saying "Don't discuss", just, maybe can we all agree that this isn't a near-term option we're looking at?

Actually. Interesting thing. We've got a lot of "when's the best moment to talk about things" going on with literally everyone, right? Well, and this is just personal experience talking, but having dealt with "I have something I need to talk to you about, but it'll probably really upset you, even if it needs to happen" before, I got a fairly positive response when I, in fact, explicitly asked something to the effect of "Okay, sometimes I need to talk some serious topics, and sometimes I'm pretty sure they'll be really stressful and upsetting. Like this last conversation, in fact. It made your day a lot worse, and I can see it brought down your mood a lot, and any positive feelings you'd been having previously. I don't have anything to talk about at this precise moment (as in, ask this well before we actually plan to have any of these conversation bombs), but as a general rule, when would you prefer to have this kind of conversation? When you're having a good day, so it balances out the stress of the conversation? When you're having a bad day, so everything gets all over with at once? When you're having a meh day, so you can look at things with equanimity and it neither ruins a good day nor makes a bad day worse? Basically, are there any ways that I could approach difficult conversations to make them more comfortable for you?"

It displays our concern about other people's feelings, and it's more considerate, I feel, than flailing around and trying to decide without asking first that we should drop a bunch of issues directly onto other people's trauma. I've been given some evidence (from the person I had this conversation with, as well as a therapist I'd asked for some advice about the issue) that this really is helpful, and gives the person you ask some sense of security that you now know well enough to bring up conversation bombs at a time that's as little stressful for them as possible.

Also, in this context, an answer would give the thread a bit of guidance about When It Is And Is Not Appropriate To Bring Things Up.

Just my thoughts on the issue.

The hypothesis that's come up since then, namely that Madoka wished for "everything to be fixed" because Homura witched out, has some potential merit to it in my opinion. If we take that to be the case, then the potentialbomb acting as an infohazard above and beyond canon does make sense.

That's both surprisingly plausible, and more than a little concerning, all things considered. Huh. Neat. Terrifying, but neat.

... going back to trying to compose a reply to, uh, everything that happened while I was gone, apparently...

Edit: Actually, wait.

Clearly, the answer is to build a cleverly consistent but unverifiable structure of half-truths and outright lies which Homura will want to believe and is mutually incompatible with the truth.

Then, we tell that to Homura. That way, if Kyubey tries to potential-bomb her, she'll just think it's lying.

So we know Kyubey tells Homura the potentialbomb in canon, and we know all the red-thread-of-fate stuff and basically everything symbolic ever seems to support it- but exactly how word-of-Urobutcher is the potentialbomb, explicitly? Is there any possibility that Kyubey was merely interpreting some phenomena to create a hypothesis that best suited its goals?

Not necessarily saying this is a reasonable claim, but my, what do you call it, shadowrun generator? just got flipped on.
 
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The last time we planned to potentialbomb Homura, up to and including putting it in votes, we got a sternly worded QM warning instead of an update.



I frankly still have no fucking clue how we're supposed to "defuse" QB from telling Homura the potentialbomb like Oriko asked us to if doing it ourselves isn't the answer, but that's the current situation.

Thanks a lot for that link, the following discussion really improved my understanding of the problem.

Just to be clear, I know this thread has had a somewhat rocky history of discussions regarding the various bombs, and I am not advocating that we should do this (or poke at Feathers with barrier experiments, which is another scary thing I asked about earlier) right now, or ever necessarily. I just think it's important to have some kind of long-term strategy for these difficult problems, even if it's "We're never doing it.". I fear that the delaying "We'll see" might eventually land us in a really bad spot, as multiple problems that we've put aside for later crop up together at the worst possible time.

But yeah, there's no particular reason to discuss the Homura potentialbomb right now, and sorry in advance for the possible derail.
 
the Homura potentialbomb

Okay so this is completely off topic in every way, but when we keep saying "potentialbomb" and talking about "Potential", my first thought is always Slayer Potential, because BtVS was one of my formative fandoms. As a result, part of me just keeps thinking, "Yes. We will need to tell Homura soon. Madoka is a Potential Slayer. One girl in all the world, destined to fight vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness." Or alternatively, "Yes. Homura is clearly a Vampire Slayer. She just isn't aware of it yet."
 
Okay so this is completely off topic in every way, but when we keep saying "potentialbomb" and talking about "Potential", my first thought is always Slayer Potential, because BtVS was one of my formative fandoms. As a result, part of me just keeps thinking, "Yes. We will need to tell Homura soon. Madoka is a Potential Slayer. One girl in all the world, destined to fight vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness." Or alternatively, "Yes. Homura is clearly a Vampire Slayer. She just isn't aware of it yet."

Clearly, Madoka is the Slayer.

Homura is her Good Vampire stalker. Who is trying to keep her from getting turned into a vampire. Or killed.
 
After, Walpurgisnacht, shouldn't the potentionalbomb partially defuse itself? I mean, yeah, Madoka might or might not still have FUCKHUGE potential, but she'll be alive and uncontracted.

Of course, we don't know what kind of Karmic backlash (if any) would come from the loop being broken. Madoka might not be able to hold on to all her potential, and that's before we factor Feathers in, or our own fate-breaking ass.

The point is, after we kill (or even just survive) Wailuigi Night, we're in uncharted territory. I don't think the universe is just going to roll over and let Homura win, especially after it's tortured her for so long.



Or I could just be shadowrunning. Eh. It's in my name, after all.
 
After, Walpurgisnacht, shouldn't the potentionalbomb partially defuse itself? I mean, yeah, Madoka might or might not still have FUCKHUGE potential, but she'll be alive and uncontracted.

Of course, we don't know what kind of Karmic backlash (if any) would come from the loop being broken. Madoka might not be able to hold on to all her potential, and that's before we factor Feathers in, or our own fate-breaking ass.

The point is, after we kill (or even just survive) Wailuigi Night, we're in uncharted territory. I don't think the universe is just going to roll over and let Homura win, especially after it's tortured her for so long.



Or I could just be shadowrunning. Eh. It's in my name, after all.

You are shadowrunning in the same direction as me, then. :V

Seriously, Walugimart is just a plot device of the uncaring universe that wants to show Homura: "Being Meguca is suffering."

As for Madoka

Well, the biggest thing I'm afraid of is that she finds out too much info about the system and makes her canon Wish, even after we defeat Wladimirsknight. I mean, I may actually be very mistaken and not understand Madoka's character at all, but that's the thing I'm afraid of. Basically, we have to save the universe before Madoka decides to do it for us.:)
 
You are shadowrunning in the same direction as me, then. :V

Seriously, Walugimart is just a plot device of the uncaring universe that wants to show Homura: "Being Meguca is suffering."

As for Madoka

Well, the biggest thing I'm afraid of is that she finds out too much info about the system and makes her canon Wish, even after we defeat Wladimirsknight. I mean, I may actually be very mistaken and not understand Madoka's character at all, but that's the thing I'm afraid of. Basically, we have to save the universe before Madoka decides to do it for us.:)

From what I understand, Madoka was only able to make such a self-sacrificing wish because her low self-esteem was turned into near self-hatred through the efforts of Kyubey, in order get to her to contract in the first place.

Since our Madoka is relatively stable, and there are people like us actively working to fix everything, we should be safe.

Unless Firn decides to throw us a curveball. But he doesn't seem the type to do that.
 
(First post here, so I don't know if I'm repeating things already discussed in the thread)

I have a hunch a lot hangs in making Homura believe "Madoka wishing" isn't an instant loss condition*.

Not sure how, though. That sounds absurdly hard.



* I'm not advocating Madoka wishing.
 
I've edited the update slightly. I hadn't intended for it to come off as Sabrina lying, just glossing over the issue - and she was referring to not having specific foreknowledge about Feathers, which she doesn't for sure. Hopefully this reads better.

Onto other things...

OK, so. PMAS was coined before Rebellion came out, yes, and I had the foundations of the plot laid out by then. However, that doesn't mean I haven't forward-borrowed elements from Rebellion. Is Feathers Homucifer? It isn't outside the realm of possibility that I retconned that in, but until confirmed in-story, you don't know for sure.
 
I mean, I may actually be very mistaken and not understand Madoka's character at all, but that's the thing I'm afraid of. Basically, we have to save the universe before Madoka decides to do it for us.:)

Is that even remotely possible? I mean, being able to save to everyone to the same extent that she can? Saving every single magical girl through out history, out right preventing them from becoming Witches. Kind of hard to top that. Even if Sabrina is able to accomplish the incredibly difficult task of hunting down every single grief seed and reverting them, there's still the possibility of them having to live with that trauma instead of living it up in magical girl "heaven". There was still the whole Homucifer thing, but I'm pretty sure that Madoka and friends will find a way to make things work out in the end. The story isn't quite complete, after all.

It would take a miracle to do as good as Madoka. But considering this is PMMM, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Hell if I know how to accomplish that, though.
 
Is that even remotely possible? I mean, being able to save to everyone to the same extent that she can? Saving every single magical girl through out history, out right preventing them from becoming Witches. Kind of hard to top that. Even if Sabrina is able to accomplish the incredibly difficult task of hunting down every single grief seed and reverting them, there's still the possibility of them having to live with that trauma instead of living it up in magical girl "heaven". There was still the whole Homucifer thing, but I'm pretty sure that Madoka and friends will find a way to make things work out in the end. The story isn't quite complete, after all.

It would take a miracle to do as good as Madoka. But considering this is PMMM, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Hell if I know how to accomplish that, though.

[Q] Enchant the entire Universe with your Control enchantment.
 
(First post here, so I don't know if I'm repeating things already discussed in the thread)

I have a hunch a lot hangs in making Homura believe "Madoka wishing" isn't an instant loss condition*.

Not sure how, though. That sounds absurdly hard.



* I'm not advocating Madoka wishing.

We could possibly do this by 1: working out a way cleaning Soul Gems that is independent of us and doesn't involve combat (maybe accounted for with Clear Seeds); B: figuring out dewitching; and III: demonstrating enough power to put down Kriemhild Gretchen in preparation for said dewitching. Hell, being able to uncontract someone wouldn't hurt either.

Of course, I have my doubts about this. Homura is very set in her ways, and everything she's experienced says that being Meguca is Suffering. She does not want Madoka to suffer.

Besides, we don't need a Mado-wish. Judging by how far we've come in three weeks (four years for us), Sabrina is well capable of fixing everything. Getting Madoka to wish- especially her canon wish- just seems like throwing in the towel at this point.
 
Oh. Right. Here we go Gilgameshing again.
Well, Sayaka and Mami stopped us. I mean, what else are friends for if not to stop you from Knight Templaring someone's property away, right?

That part about the mansion did make me cringe a bit. But I also think that's kind of unfair. It was only suggested because Sayaka and Homura seriously hate them and Sabrina's getting desperate about getting them to loosen the restrictions on them. If it was entirely up to Sabrina, they'd probably be straight up set free. It kind of reminds of the time we almost got slapped by Hitomi. Sabrina has a tendency to bend over backwards to try and satisfy her friends, which has mixed results and can lead to morally sketchy paths.

On a much lighter note,

Meanwhile, on the Discord, I participate in an affront to all that is good and decent:

https://vebyast.github.io/pmas-discord-quotes/#/quote_id/432969113745358888


:V
 
[Q] Store the entire 3D universe inside your 4D control radius, one piece at a time.

[Q] Belatedly realize that the universe may or may not contain 11 dimensions, which makes stuffing 3D universe inside your 4D control radius insufficient to truly save it.
-[Q] Despair. Witch out for superpowers.

I will not stop making this jokevote. Seykuu: making your Witch work for you since the Rebellion. :V
 
It doesn't have to be the whole universe, at first.

We could start with the Earth, and then scale up. Once every human being is within Sabrina's control radius, there's no danger of any magical girl ever witching out ever again. She can shut down the Kyubeys. She can stop fights.

Sabrina can form a real barrier, and do a little space-bending inside so that people can have more room to walk around, and sunshine, and so forth.
 
OK, so. PMAS was coined before Rebellion came out, yes, and I had the foundations of the plot laid out by then. However, that doesn't mean I haven't forward-borrowed elements from Rebellion. Is Feathers Homucifer? It isn't outside the realm of possibility that I retconned that in, but until confirmed in-story, you don't know for sure.

These vague non-answers. When I'm old(er), I'm going to run a campaign ( an RPG campaign, not a political one, God forbid ), and each time my players will ask me if this schmuck is finally the Big Bad of the entire setting, I will tell them: as one wise man said to me in passing, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that I might have retconned that in three years before any of you were born. :V

I wholeheartedly approve, just so you know.
 
[Q] Belatedly realize that the universe may or may not contain 11 dimensions, which makes stuffing 3D universe inside your 4D control radius insufficient to truly save it.
-[Q] Despair. Witch out for superpowers.

I will not stop making this jokevote. Seykuu: making your Witch work for you since the Rebellion. :V
If the universe is 11Dimensions, then we should have an 11Dimension control range, and we have already verified one extra dimension which extends out significantly more than matter could fill it. Indeed such matter disappears from normal means of detection merely by rotating in place.
 
If the universe is 11Dimensions, then we should have an 11Dimension control range, and we have already verified one extra dimension which extends out significantly more than matter could fill it. Indeed such matter disappears from normal means of detection merely by rotating in place.

It doesn't work like that exactly?

And not all of these eleven hypothetical dimensions are spacial, some of them are temporal, and I'm way too lazy to look the exact ratio up or if I'm even correct in the most general terms.

The proponent is Steven Hawking, by the way. I think.

I need to sleep.
 
It doesn't work like that exactly?

And not all of these eleven hypothetical dimensions are spacial, some of them are temporal, and I'm way too lazy to look the exact ratio up or if I'm even correct in the most general terms.

The proponent is Steven Hawking, by the way. I think.

I need to sleep.
Edward Witten would be surprised to hear that. And I beleive that for all cases short of n=infinity, an n-1 infinite object can be folded up into a finite nth dimension.* And since we already have a dimension in which normal objects appear to be infinitely thin, as long as that's the case we can fold up however many other dimensions we have into it.

*a plane can be folded up in a volume, a volume within a hypervolume, a hypervolume into a fifth dimensions equivalent... etc.
 
And not all of these eleven hypothetical dimensions are spacial, some of them are temporal, and I'm way too lazy to look the exact ratio up or if I'm even correct in the most general terms.

10 dimensional, one temporal according to a wiki search. But most of them are compactified or what-have-you - most of this stuff is so far over my head it's a collision risk for Comsats.
 
Well, bosonic string theory (an ancestor of M-theory) suggests 25 spacial and one temporal dimensions.

Although, I'd be interested to see how a universe with multiple temporal dimensions would work.

EDIT: Ooh, some varieties of quantum mechanics propose infinite dimensions!
 
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