Magical Girl Rick Sanchez with Homura's Powers. (Not the Journalist, the Rick from Rick and Morty.)

Eh, she'd witch out in one of her drinking bouts.

Magical Girl Hillary Trump, on the other hand, is up and running for the Presidency of the USA.

God save us all. :V

Eh, whatever, don't really care for politics, especially American politics.

Edit: I've never noticed before, but Rick and Morty doesn't have time travel at all, does it? Huh.
A Take That to its inspiration?
 
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"Yes?" you say, raising your eyebrows. You can feel the magic rising around Yuki. Almost affectionate, twining around her, and the only word you can really use is that it's welcoming her back.
While rereading, I suddenly find myself coming to the implicit pun here we all missed.

Yuki: I'm back!
Fukushima HQ: Welcome Back, I'm home!

The implicit dad joke even. :V
 
I wonder when will Sayaka truly understand how much we're expecting from her.

When it truly downs on her.

That we're trying to make her a physical god.

(And then we leave the world to her to administrate while we go cuddle Mami).
 
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To the White Forest pt. 17
"That's not as dumb an idea as you might think," you say, raising an eyebrow. "I mean, yeah, it's not ideal, but there's potential there, Sayaka. That said... you know, you have Miss Usagi's animal communication power, don't you? Do you think you could convince animals to watch them for you?"

"Hey, that might actually work," Sayaka says, brightening. "I dunno if they can actually report on... I dunno, human speech. I can check that."

"Bonus points for using birds with enhanced eyesight," you advise, and snicker as a thought occurs to you. "Crows or ravens or something with black feathers, if you want to make Oriko paranoid. Don't actually do that."

"... what?" Sayaka says, giving you a slow, baffled look.

"Homura knows what I'm talking about, but hold that thought, we'll get back to it later?" you say. "I wanna keep up the momentum about figuring out tracking first."

Sayaka shrugs.

"I'll remind you," Mami says, smiling at you.

"Alright," you say, returning the smile. You cover her hand with yours, interlacing your fingers and squeezing gently. You're fine.

And you are, the relief bringing a sweet, heady feeling of victory. Everyone seems to be broadly on board with you, even Homura. And isn't that a shock? Even Homura. Though you're pretty sure she's more on board with the notion of increased security rather than the attendant additional freedom, and would in fact probably prefer the former without the latter.

... hm.

"Pity I never got the magic hacking from that Ishinomaki girl," Sayaka muses. "Inoue? Was that her name? Could hack the city cameras."

You snicker, giving her a thumbs up. "I mean, if we're going along those lines, it's a pity you can't just grab Miss Tsuruya's power and claim the entire city," you say. "Also, if you need advice, you can always talk to Miss Usagi, since she knows her power the best."

"Yeah," Sayaka agrees, nodding.

"I... well, would you be happy with that as a means of security, Sayaka, Homura?" you ask, dividing your attention between the both of them. "That you'd think it would be sufficient to let Oriko and Kirika wander freely a bit?"

Homura's jaw tightens, the muscles on her neck tensing - for anyone else, that would be an outright scowl. She looks at Sayaka for a long, long moment, before returning her attention back to you. "What other ideas do you have?"

"... should I be insulted?" Sayaka mutters. "I think I should be insulted."

"Sayaka," you say reprovingly.

"I don't trust them," Homura repeats.

And that's your cue to interpret.

"By which Homura means, it's not that she distrusts your abilities-" though there's probably some of that too, just not the overriding problem "-it's just that, well, precog makes for a terrifying opponent, you know? It's possible and worrisome that if she were hostile, Oriko would still remember enough of her visions to effectively manipulate events. Is that about right, Homura?"

She hesitates for a second before nodding.

"Ah, I see," Sayaka says, nodding wisely. "I guess. Also, how do you unpack that from four words?"

You shrug.

"Anyway... returning to ideas, we could always get Miss Tsuruya to claim whichever building Oriko and Kirika move to," you say. "I'm not sure she's completely aware of the building at all times, but it's worth a thought?"

"I don't think she maintains complete awareness," Mami says, a thoughtful frown on her face. "She mentioned having to focus, correct?"

Homura nods wordlessly.

"Ah. Right," you say, rubbing your chin. "Hiring someone, maybe? You mentioned a Taniguchi with sort-of portal powers, right, Homura?"

"Yes," Homura says, and frowns. "I doubt she will be agreeable."

"I could... try to keep ribbons on her," Mami suggests hesitantly. "I could track them, but it would require that I maintain partial focus on them."

"Not particularly ideal, then," you decide. "Damn. So we're left with... bodycams, GPS trackers, tracking enchantments, and Sayaka's animal friends?"

"All of it," Homura says.

"Seems a bit overkill," Sayaka says. "But I guess that makes sense. Who... hey, we don't need to watch all the footage. Uh, if I can work with the animals. I get them to tell me if something interesting's happening, and then we check the footage around that time?"

"Plus the trackers," you say. You comb your fingers through your hair, thinking. "I... wonder if we can get a bodycam with integrated tracker. I mean, it seems like the kind of thing that goes together? And something not too conspicuous."

"Sounds expensive," Sayaka says, shrugging.

"Eh, shouldn't be a problem," you say, and look at Homura. "And... this will be sufficient to move them to a new location, and give them a bit of freedom to wander? We can lay down stipulations as to where they're allowed to go. And if they leave it, or use antimagic in any way, we'd know, and we can hunt them down."

Homura exhales, very slowly and manages a tense, infinitesimal nod.

Sayaka glances at Homura, fiddling with her hair clip. "I'll make sure that the animals can track them first," she says. "Then we'll figure this out?"

"Probably a good idea," you say. "Also, here's a thought - you picked up some kind of hypnosis power, right? Maybe you can use it in conjunction to the animal power to teach them what to listen for? Or outright control them, I guess."

You study Homura as you speak. She's... unhappy with the decision, you can tell that much, but she's willing to accept it.

Madokami above, you owe her so much for extending you the trust she does.

"Yeah..." Sayaka frowns. "Maybe."

You sigh, sitting back and leaning into Mami's arms. "Alright. I guess... Well, the next thing to settle is where we're moving them, and what we do with the Mikuni mansion."

"Is... is that a question?" Sayaka asks, both eyebrows shooting up. "I guess she's our prisoner, yeah, but that's not our mansion. We haven't..." She screws up her face. "We haven't established their asset forfeiture."

"I... must concur, Sabrina," Mami says. She bites her lip. "I'm sorry."

"... Uh. That's a good point," you say, and squeeze Mami's hand. "Don't be sorry for telling me when I'm wrong, Mami. But yeah, I guess we can leave that to her...?"

"Did you have something in mind?" Mami asks, giving you a gentle smile.

"Well, I was thinking that Oriko probably doesn't want the place any more, so if she were interested in selling it the proceeds could be donated to everyone who was affected in the fire."

"Yeaaaaah, that runs into the same problem of 'why'," Sayaka says. "It'd be great! But, like, I don't see what, er, justification could be used."

"Anonymous charitable donation?" you say. "But yeah, I see your point. It's not our call to make, so... thanks Mami, thanks Sayaka for pointing it out."

"Anytime," Sayaka says with a smirk. "Now, where do we move them..."

"The warehouse that Oriko prepared?" Mami says, sounding doubtful.

"No," Homura says, nearly instantly. "She could have planned that."

Mami nods, pursing her lips.

"I... had an idea," you say. "Uh, well. Kirika's parents are in the city."

"... eh?" Sayaka says.

"I know, I know," you say. "Yeah. It's an idea?"

"That won't be awkward at all," Sayaka says, and grins. "I love it."

"Ah... I'm not sure her parents would let her out of their sight after that," Mami offers. "It might mean we won't be able to bring them out after that. Even visiting might be difficult, depending on Miss Kure's parents."

"Random apartment of our choice," Homura says, voice even.

"Yeah, that's an option too," you agree, rubbing your nose. "Anyone got strong opinions about this? Or other ideas?"

Mami shakes her head. "I'm not sure we have many options for this," she says.

"Yeah... which really goes back to the initial problem of there not being a magical girl judiciary," you say, and make a face. "We'll... think about this and come back to it?"

"Yep, yep, sounds good to me," Sayaka agrees.

Homura nods.

"Alright, good..." you say. "Moving on... well, actually. Speaking of the older Kures, uh. Sayaka? How do you feel about bringing your parents in? And then having Oriko confess her crime to them?"

"Er." Sayaka blinks, confusion washing across her face. "Erm."

Mami giggles, leaning into your side.

"Uh, sorry?" you offer. "It's just a thought."

"No, no, I just... never thought about it," Sayaka admits. "Um. I... guess? I don't really know, though..."

"Think about it, and get back to me?" you say, smiling. "I mean... in the long term, I want adults in general to know about magic. Meguca isolation isn't really good for us, and hey. I want shrinks."

Sayaka makes a disgusted face. "Psychologists? Really?"

"They would be very welcome for magical girls in general," Mami says, her finger rubbing against her Soul Gem. "Especially considering... you know."

"Yeah..." you say, hugging her.

Mami takes a shaky breath, and smiles at you. "What about the feathers, Sabrina?"

You smile back at her. "Well, I've told you about it before, but... well, OK. So, Oriko's power gives her visions. According to her, some of her visions are blanked out by a flurry of black feathers. And... they scare the living daylights out of her."

"That's it?" Sayaka says, snorting. "Just... feathers?"

"Well, according to her, it's something that's not a Witch," you say, eyeing Homura. She's quiet, purple eyes fixed on you. "But she can't elaborate on what it might be."

Homura's jaw tightens, and she looks away.

"Sounds way too convenient," Sayaka says, wrinkling her nose.

"I... have reason to believe her on this subject," you say slowly. "At least partially. Not from my foreknowledge, but... I found one of those Feathers she mentioned once. It appeared when I tried making a Barrier."

"... not really buyin' it," Sayaka says. "Couldn't that have been just a bird flying past or something? Or hell, if you reckon Oriko's some kinda master manipulator, she could've planted it to scare you."

"It does sound a bit flimsy when you put it that way," you admit. "But I've got the Feather around, and..." You blow out a breath. "Look. The thing is, something that I'm pretty sure is Feathers has... spoken to me, before, and no, I'm not imagining it. Sayaka, that time you were Witch-kissed was verifiably something strange happening. You were teleported across half the city to the Witch. Other times, there's been, as I said, I... think it tried to speak to me."

"It spoke to you?" Mami says, sounding concerned.

Even Homura looks faintly perturbed.

"Yeah... kind of," you say. "No actual voice, just... fleeting impressions."

"I... dunno," Sayaka says. "It still sounds kind of sketchy to me. If it's true, then it's freaky as hell, but..." Sayaka shrugs, ambivalent. "I'm kind of skeptical on it? It could be Mikuni messing with your head or something."

"I... I need to get my thoughts together on this," you admit with a sigh. "But in the interests of moving on for now, and in the interests of making sure we're all on the same page, she prophesized her own death. At our hands, when we first met her, or after tomorrow, at the hands of someone who I suspect is Rionna Mag Aoidh or... well, Feathers. Then again, she also capped that off by saying we would meet again."

"Meh," Sayaka says, waving it off. "Good to know, I guess. Can... can we get out of this time stop now? No offense, Homura, but it kind of creeps me out."

Homura shrugs, raising her hand to her shield.

"Ah... actually, Homura? Could I have a private word?" you ask.

She nods slowly.

You smile warmly at Mami. "It'll be just a moment," you murmur, squeezing her hand with your interlaced fingers. "And I'll be back, OK? I promise."

"Alright," Mami whispers, tucking her head against you for a tight hug.

"And Sayaka?" you say, giving your friend a warm smile with as much sincerity as you can pack into it. "Thank you. Thank you for being willing to hear me out. And you too, Homura."

"Yeah, yeah," Sayaka says, grinning. "Like I said. You're our weirdo."

"Heh. Thanks," you say. You carefully disentangle yourself from Mami, and with a deep breath, she dispels the ribbo-

-n. You blink, taking a breath. There's a warm hand on your shoulder. Homura.

[] Homura
- [] Hug teh homu
- [] What do you want to talk to her about?
[] Oriko and Kirika's imprisonment
- [] Move them to...
-- [] Random apartment
-- [] Kure's place
[] Back to enchantment practice?
[] Put in an order for the tracking devices
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)


=====​

Apologies, I'd meant to update yesterday. Sayaka will automatically do her animal whispering thing.
 
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Hmm I wonder if they're going too far with all these security measures, sure it for Homu peace of mind but we do have to explain it to Oriko.

"Uh, well. Kirika's parents are in the city."
As for this why, bringing adults in with those two is a bad idea and a bit crass since the parents would make it worse and Kirika would be quite angry with us.
 
-n. You blink, taking a breath. There's a warm hand on your shoulder. Homura.

[] Homura
- [] Hug teh homu
Sounds perfect.

Just do this and get back to the others.

:V


"Alright, good..." you say. "Moving on... well, actually. Speaking of the older Kures, uh. Sayaka? How do you feel about bringing your parents in? And then having Oriko confess her crime to them?"

"Er." Sayaka blinks, confusion washing across her face. "Erm."

Mami giggles, leaning into your side.

"Uh, sorry?" you offer. "It's just a thought."

"No, no, I just... never thought about it," Sayaka admits. "Um. I... guess? I don't really know, though..."
Excuse me seyiku, who was it who was super mad about not being told things? >_>


"Not particularly ideal, then," you decide. "Damn. So we're left with... bodycams, GPS trackers, tracking enchantments, and Sayaka's animal friends?"

"All of it," Homura says.

"Seems a bit overkill," Sayaka says. "But I guess that makes sense. Who... hey, we don't need to watch all the footage. Uh, if I can work with the animals. I get them to tell me if something interesting's happening, and then we check the footage around that time?"
I have enhanced this scene.

"Not particularly ideal, then," you decide. "Damn. So we're left with... bodycams, GPS trackers, tracking enchantments, and Sayaka's animal friends?"

"All of it," Homura says.

"Seems a bit overkill," Sayaka says. "But-"

"All of it," Homura says.

Sayaka blinks. "... I guess that makes sense. Who-"

"All of it," Homura says.

"Hey, we don't need to watch all the footage-"

"All of it," Homura says.

Blue eyes blink at the suddenly insistive Homura. "... Uh, if I... can work with the... animals." she drawls, as if waiting for an interruption. When it doesn't come to be, she smiles and carries on. "If I can work with the animals, I get them to tell me if something interesting's happening-"

"All of it," Homura says.

Sayaka startles, but goes on in a hurry. "-And then we check the footage around that time!?"

"All-"

"ALL of it, yes, all of it, I know," Sayaka frowns at Homura.

Homura's jaw tightens, the muscles on her neck tensing - for anyone else, that would be an outright scowl.

"I think I should be insulted," Sayaka mutters.
 
"Ah, I see," Sayaka says, nodding wisely. "I guess. Also, how do you unpack that from four words?"

Technically, it's five words. More technically, they are talking in Japanese, and I don't know how many words-
Shutting up.

"Is... is that a question?" Sayaka asks, both eyebrows shooting up. "I guess she's our prisoner, yeah, but that's not our mansion. We haven't..." She screws up her face. "We haven't established their asset forfeiture."

Oh. Right. Here we go Gilgameshing again.
Well, Sayaka and Mami stopped us. I mean, what else are friends for if not to stop you from Knight Templaring someone's property away, right?

Sayaka makes a disgusted face. "Psychologists? Really?"

Hmm. Is that Japanese thingy against psychotherapy, or is it more teenager "My Head is my Head, stay away, baka!" attitude? A little bit of both? Though Mami seems more than OK with it, so maybe it's just Seykuu being Seykuu.

...
I request a mini-update. :V

-[X] hug teh homu
 
@Onmur @Matou Sutegobana @Kinruush @mCooperative @Redshirt Army @The Narrator

I'm mostly just pissed off at this point. On so many levels.

Why no grief-construct lie detector? Why is an idea that, in theory, should perfectly suit our needs and solve our problem barely even discussed by a couple of people before others just ignore it? I sat on that idea for months, waiting for a chance to bring it up and propose it for a vote. And even though I've been advocating it for two story posts in a row, it's barely even been acknowledged by more than three people. What the hell, people?

Instead, we got a whole bunch of pointless discussion about ideas that went nowhere. And now we're back at square one, save for some nebulous idea about moving O&K to a random apartment instead of where they're currently staying at.

@Firnagzen Why does Sabrina do such a terrible job at convincing others about what she knows? She knows Feathers is a thing, she can outright prove that it's a thing, but instead she treats it like this sketchy rumor she heard once from some untrustworthy source. Sabrina should be telling Sayaka that she knows Feathers is a thing for sure, that it wasn't just some fucking bird flying by, that Feathers tried to kill Sayaka, and that Oriko only spoke about Feathers when her girlfriend was under threat of a fate worse than death.

Also, we should be shooting down the notion that Oriko planned far ahead even her losing her precognition, since A) she can't effectively predict Sabrina anyway, and B) the very nature of Oriko losing her powers by rejecting her Wish means that she wouldn't still be using her old visions to guide her even after losing her powers.

This conversation wasn't a victory by any stretch of imagination. It was a resounding defeat. We've reinforced Sayaka's "O&K are bad people who deserve to be punished" mentality, outright stated that we don't think O&K are good people multiple times, reinforced the notion that O&K deserve further punishment rather than this all being about ensuring that they won't do any additional harm to others, and we've failed to even try to convince Sayaka that Oriko burned down her home to save her life from a threat she couldn't understand or counter in any other way she could readily find.

We promised Oriko and Kirika we'd become their advocate, that we'd help get them more freedom. Instead, all we've actually negotiated for them here is moving them to a smaller place and slapping additional security measures on them, maybe in exchange for some very limited "yard time". It's almost insulting, and it makes us massively hypocritical that we're not even trying to push for more.

Oriko and Kirika are our friends. Period. There's no disputing that. But there're some serious problems with the fact that we're doing the opposite of admitting that to our other friends--we're practically badmouthing Oriko and Kirika behind their backs. Sayaka and Homura should be struggling to reconcile their prejudices and biases against the facts of the case and our first-hand knowledge and experience. Instead, they're practically even more certain about their original judgments than they were before this conversation.

Oriko and Kirika should be going back to school. We didn't even bring the subject up, IIRC, and we certainly didn't push for it. We should be discussing informing Kirika's parents about everything that happened, so that she can go back to living with them without being practically imprisoned by her parents (or thinking that Oriko is a bad influence on Kirika). We should be outright stating that we (Sabrina) are going to be giving them some escorted free time, and if Sayaka won't provide the escort, then we will. We have that right, and it's unreasonable for anyone to say otherwise. We should be trying to make a Grief-construct lie detector and testing it out, so that we can shoot down Homura's "I don't trust them" defense once and for all. Instead, we ended up at a place even worse than when we started. You guys really fucked up, here. Twice in a row. You're either selectively oblivious and doormats, or you're completely hypocritical. You didn't just cave in to their views, you pre-emptively caved in so hard you were folded in half, and failed to uphold your promises to Oriko and Kirika. So much for all of the trust and faith we've asked Oriko to have in us, huh?

This update was fucking painful to read, and it always will be.

I mean, hell. Redshirt's whole "No lie detector because of ethical and logistical issues", and that's it. I put a hell of a lot more into an argument for it, and you barely put a sentence in, with no explanation behind your points at all? What ethical issues? Literally, what issues? Consent? Obviously we'd get Oriko and Kirika's consent first. Invasive questions? They can refuse to answer any of them they choose. There are no ethical issues. Polygraphs are controversial IRL because they don't work reliably. Magical devices do, certainly when you can test them out beforehand.

And the whole "we haven't even tried making one yet, so we can't even suggest it" is just...I...really? Really? It's an idea, you're allowed to propose ideas in a brainstorming session before you know they'll work. That's the entire goddamn point of a brainstorming session. And hey, I've been trying to get Sabrina to try to make one for a while, but no one has supported that, either. Funny how that works?

If I were grading you guys on "persuading your audience", I'd give you an F, because the effort was not even made. You guys argued against your own position from the very start. I'd pull you aside and ask you why you were in the class if you weren't even going to take the material seriously.
 
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Why no grief-construct lie detector? Why is an idea that, in theory, should perfectly suit our needs and solve our problem barely even discussed by a couple of people before others just ignore it? I sat on that idea for months, waiting for a chance to bring it up and propose it for a vote. And even though I've been advocating it for two story posts in a row, it's barely even been acknowledged by more than three people. What the hell, people?

Because the truthful answer for Oriko when Homura asks her "is there any circumstance in which you would kill Madoka" is still "yes".
 
I don't know anyone else, but I just want Sabrina to have a moment to look after Homu.

[ ] Homura.
-[ ] Attempt hugs.
-[ ] Tone: Relief and concern.
-[ ] Talk about Homura.
--[ ] Ask how she's doing, try to get her to express her own feelings.
--[ ] Acknowledge her efforts, thank her and try to address her concerns.
-[ ] Resist urge to hug Mami until timestop ends.

[ ] O&K.
-[ ] You'll talk with them first about including the Kure adults, and choose their place or a random apartment based on that.
-[ ] You'll ask if Oriko has plans to do with the mansion and reimbursement, while you're at it.

[ ] Put in an order for the tracking devices.
 
Why no grief-construct lie detector? Why is an idea that, in theory, should perfectly suit our needs and solve our problem barely even discussed by a couple of people before others just ignore it? I sat on that idea for months, waiting for a chance to bring it up and propose it for a vote. And even though I've been advocating it for two story posts in a row, it's barely even been acknowledged by more than three people. What the hell, people?
Homura: Promise me you'll never hurt Madoka.
Oriko: I can't promise that.
Grief Verificator: *truth*
Homura: BANG

It will not fucking help. This has been explained to you repeatedly. People started ignoring you when you repeatedly failed to understand the problem with your idea and continued ignoring you when you started getting combative about it.
 
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"Bonus points for using birds with enhanced eyesight," you advise, and snicker as a thought occurs to you. "Crows or ravens or something with black feathers, if you want to make Oriko paranoid. Don't actually do that."

... this is wonderful and I appreciate that it was spoken. I am imagining Oriko having a moment upon noticing such a surveillance. Slightly mean, but on the other hand, this is how we've been feeling you little precog. **hugs the Oriko** There we are. All is equal now.

Er, though, us seeing surveillance corvids would probably not help our paranoia, even if we're well aware Sayaka is piloting them. Because in all the mix of birds, it only takes one to be Not Ours for there to be an issue, and I feel like that would be a creeping sort of thought.

"Ah, I see," Sayaka says, nodding wisely. "I guess. Also, how do you unpack that from four words?"

We are fluent in the Akemi family dialect, from our mother's side. Normally, we speak the standard Mitakihara variant, with touches of the Kaname family dialect, from our other mother's side. We've been picking up some Kure and Sakura as we go, but the former is a lot of memes and cryptic, and the latter has a surprising amount of-

... what?

You study Homura as you speak. She's... unhappy with the decision, you can tell that much, but she's willing to accept it.

Madokami above, you owe her so much for extending you the trust she does.

Ah, yes, we very much do owe Homura one delivery of "Madokami above" for extending this level of trust to us. Do you think the post office is willing to deliver shipments of Literally God, shipped from an adjacent temporal-universal spiral? Because Homura needs the hugs, I think.

"I... had an idea," you say. "Uh, well. Kirika's parents are in the city."

"... eh?" Sayaka says.

"I know, I know," you say. "Yeah. It's an idea?"

"That won't be awkward at all," Sayaka says, and grins. "I love it."

Ah, there's that pettiness. In all fairness, it wouldn't be wrong, morally, to remand them to the senior Kures. Merely impractical, as Mami says, for our purposes, and possibly for our continued ability to check up on Oriko's and Kirika's health.


"Other things..." you sigh. "Just in the interests of making sure we're all on the same page, she prophesized her own death. At our hands, when we first met her, or after tomorrow, at the hands of someone who I suspect is Rionna Mag Aoidh or... well, Feathers. Then again, she also capped that off by saying we would meet again."

at the hands of someone who I suspect is Rionna Mag Aoidh or... well, Feathers. Then again, she also capped that off by saying we would meet again."

Wait when did we suspect these? Did we, or was that a hint, or, wait, what? Well, it's news to me- was this actually a thing we suspected that I missed and should keep in mind, or is it something else entirely... ? Either way, it's something I hadn't actually considered. Cool.

"Yeah, yeah," Sayaka says, grinning. "Like I said. You're our weirdo."

I continue to appreciate the reassurance of being their weirdo. Having people is important, ne?

-n. You blink, taking a breath. There's a warm hand on your shoulder. Homura.

**hug teh homu**

Oh. Right. Here we go Gilgameshing again.
Well, Sayaka and Mami stopped us. I mean, what else are friends for if not to stop you from Knight Templaring someone's property away, right?

... whoops, yeah, we kinda were. In all fairness, I think we probably wandered there from the semi-facetious suggestions of retributionary house burning and/or suggesting selling it to use as compensation. As opposed to actual right of conquest. Though, the whole meguca hidden world with territory and shit does rather leave a lot of room for that sort of thing. A train of thought to keep a look out for in the future to avoid, then.

"I... have reason to believe her," you say slowly. "At least partially. Not from my foreknowledge, but... I found one of those Feathers she mentioned once. It appeared when I tried making a Barrier."

Not from my foreknowledge,

This, I have some objections to. We have concrete reasons we're ever so slightly freaking the fuck out alarmed about what Feathers could be, and even if we certainly can't ever ever ever talk about them, we can certainly say it's not just Oriko putting words in our head. This is rather close to an outright lie, and that, I don't think is necessary or pursuant to good communication, or even our aims.

I'll have more to say about this bit, and also some responses to @SaltyWaffles, both agreements, disagreements, and expansions on similar points. But I hafta head to class now, so, later y'all.
 
I can't say much about the lie detector idea since I haven't had the time to actively participate for a while but, you know, we could have avoided all of these issues if we just packed the Kures around with us in a suitably furnished semi-permanent Grief construct. Y'know, like a flying house, or something. ;)

Also, if we're that worried about Oriko's potential relationship with Madoka, we could just, y'know... delete her from her memory entirely, but ethical issues bluh bluh

ftfy
 
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Wait when did we suspect these? Did we, or was that a hint, or, wait, what? Well, it's news to me- was this actually a thing we suspected that I missed and should keep in mind, or is it something else entirely... ? Either way, it's something I hadn't actually considered. Cool.
We did suspect. Randomly, but, well...

There's also something suspicious about Riona I noticed a while ago:

Remember how Oriko claimed she did the whole arson thing because she foretold Sayaka being killed in a mysterious fashion, with no traces of death (like she was Avada Kedabra'd)?

Well, that kind of sounds like de-Gemming, or having your soul removed.

Coincidence?:

 
Beyond the obvious practical issues with a lie detector in the current situation (that Oriko won't actually respond in ways that would reassure Homura with it and almost certainly does not actually regret her past actions given that the broad strokes of her plan succeeded), demanding that people's intents and beliefs conform to our standards in sentencing comes perilously close to punishing thoughtcrime, which I'm very much against.

So, it's logistically and ethically unfeasible.

On a side note, if you're being ignored by a lot of different people, the problem might not be with them...
 
@Onmur @Matou Sutegobana @Kinruush @mCooperative @Redshirt Army

I'm mostly just pissed off at this point. On so many levels.

Why no grief-construct lie detector? Why is an idea that, in theory, should perfectly suit our needs and solve our problem barely even discussed by a couple of people before others just ignore it? I sat on that idea for months, waiting for a chance to bring it up and propose it for a vote. And even though I've been advocating it for two story posts in a row, it's barely even been acknowledged by more than three people. What the hell, people?

Instead, we got a whole bunch of pointless discussion about ideas that went nowhere. And now we're back at square one, save for some nebulous idea about moving O&K to a random apartment instead of where they're currently staying at.

@Firnagzen Why does Sabrina do such a terrible job at convincing others about what she knows? She knows Feathers is a thing, she can outright prove that it's a thing, but instead she treats it like this sketchy rumor she heard once from some untrustworthy source. Sabrina should be telling Sayaka that she knows Feathers is a thing for sure, that it wasn't just some fucking bird flying by, that Feathers tried to kill Sayaka, and that Oriko only spoke about Feathers when her girlfriend was under threat of a fate worse than death.

Also, we should be shooting down the notion that Oriko planned far ahead even her losing her precognition, since A) she can't effectively predict Sabrina anyway, and B) the very nature of Oriko losing her powers by rejecting her Wish means that she wouldn't still be using her old visions to guide her even after losing her powers.

This conversation wasn't a victory by any stretch of imagination. It was a resounding defeat. We've reinforced Sayaka's "O&K are bad people who deserve to be punished" mentality, outright stated that we don't think O&K are good people multiple times, reinforced the notion that O&K deserve further punishment rather than this all being about ensuring that they won't do any additional harm to others, and we've failed to even try to convince Sayaka that Oriko burned down her home to save her life from a threat she couldn't understand or counter in any other way she could readily find.

We promised Oriko and Kirika we'd become their advocate, that we'd help get them more freedom. Instead, all we've actually negotiated for them here is moving them to a smaller place and slapping additional security measures on them, maybe in exchange for some very limited "yard time". It's almost insulting, and it makes us massively hypocritical that we're not even trying to push for more.

Oriko and Kirika are our friends. Period. There's no disputing that. But there're some serious problems with the fact that we're doing the opposite of admitting that to our other friends--we're practically badmouthing Oriko and Kirika behind their backs. Sayaka and Homura should be struggling to reconcile their prejudices and biases against the facts of the case and our first-hand knowledge and experience. Instead, they're practically even more certain about their original judgments than they were before this conversation.

Oriko and Kirika should be going back to school. We didn't even bring the subject up, IIRC, and we certainly didn't push for it. We should be discussing informing Kirika's parents about everything that happened, so that she can go back to living with them without being practically imprisoned by her parents (or thinking that Oriko is a bad influence on Kirika). We should be outright stating that we (Sabrina) are going to be giving them some escorted free time, and if Sayaka won't provide the escort, then we will. We have that right, and it's unreasonable for anyone to say otherwise. We should be trying to make a Grief-construct lie detector and testing it out, so that we can shoot down Homura's "I don't trust them" defense once and for all. Instead, we ended up at a place even worse than when we started. You guys really fucked up, here. Twice in a row. You're either selectively oblivious and doormats, or you're completely hypocritical. You didn't just cave in to their views, you pre-emptively caved in so hard you were folded in half, and failed to uphold your promises to Oriko and Kirika. So much for all of the trust and faith we've asked Oriko to have in us, huh?

This update was fucking painful to read, and it always will be.

I mean, hell. Redshirt's whole "No lie detector because of ethical and logistical issues", and that's it. I put a hell of a lot more into an argument for it, and you barely put a sentence in, with no explanation behind your points at all? What ethical issues? Literally, what issues? Consent? Obviously we'd get Oriko and Kirika's consent first. Invasive questions? They can refuse to answer any of them they choose. There are no ethical issues. Polygraphs are controversial IRL because they don't work reliably. Magical devices do, certainly when you can test them out beforehand.

And the whole "we haven't even tried making one yet, so we can't even suggest it" is just...I...really? Really? It's an idea, you're allowed to propose ideas in a brainstorming session before you know they'll work. That's the entire goddamn point of a brainstorming session. And hey, I've been trying to get Sabrina to try to make one for a while, but no one has supported that, either. Funny how that works?

If I were grading you guys on "persuading your audience", I'd give you an F, because the effort was not even made. You guys argued against your own position from the very start. I'd pull you aside and ask you why you were in the class if you weren't even going to take the material seriously.

Alright, SaltyWaffles. I'll be the first to admit I'm not Ugolino, Redshirt Army, Sabrina Godwinson or even Onmur :V, but I would like to address your post nonetheless.

Firstly, I agree with you on many things. Such as making allowing O&K to go back to school, and, shockingly, lie detector. The idea is nifty and should be pursued, though I don't exactly see how it will work due to technical limitations and Seykuu's and Homu's general attitude. Whatever, people were arguing exhaustively against it in response to your posts, so there isn't much for me to say except that the idea at least bears testing out.

Secondly, there are things where my opinions differ from yours. They can be summarized by this one sentence, I think: even if all the posters religiously believed in the Kures and wanted nothing but releasing them from their house arrest, there would still be at least one reason not to push for it with all our might.

That reason being that Sayaka and Homura are our friends, who vehemently disagree with this, at least at the moment, have genuine grievances and ungodly amount of psychological trauma respectively, and if we push them too fast or too far on this, they will break up with us. There is certain amount of trust in every relationship, and unconditional release of Oriko and Kirika breaks this trust completely in this case.

Next, I will try to concentrate on what we succeeded in, and why our dialogue with them is not "resounding failure".

Firstly, and most importantly, we talked, they talked and we all listened. As long as people don't stop talking and listening to other people, no dialogue can be considered a complete failure.
Secondly, we convinced them that moving Kures out of the mansion is a must. It was a goal of many posters on this forum, and I'm sorry if it wasn't your goal, as well. I think the arguments some of us provided both IU and OOC made this goal worthwhile, but you, of course, have right to disagree.

Well, I'm finished, sorta? I'm sorry if you feel terrible while reading this update. Not going to suggest you do or don't do something about it, but eh, you could think on what I've just said, I guess?
I could've unintentionally let something intelligent slip by. Well, I could! :V
 
Sabrina is a teenage girl, yes, but we're not. We don't get the excuses that she does, and if we use it as an excuse, we're just hiding behind the fact that we have a teenage girl as our proxy.

I wasn't annoyed at Sabrina beforehand, but rather the votes that directed Sabrina.

What @SaltyWaffles says with regards to our lack of clarity is correct. We have lied through omission here, and it pisses me off to no end. Every time we talk to them we lie by omission, blatantly avoiding the truth. I fucking hate it so much, it's like her words are closing in around me. I don't know how else to describe it.
 
We did suspect. Randomly, but, well...

There's also something suspicious about Riona I noticed a while ago:

Remember how Oriko claimed she did the whole arson thing because she foretold Sayaka being killed in a mysterious fashion, with no traces of death (like she was Avada Kedabra'd)?

Well, that kind of sounds like de-Gemming, or having your soul removed.

Coincidence?:


Well. It wasn't quite a random suspicion. Oriko foresaw her own death in a way that leaves no marks, at the hands of an unknown meguca with blonde hair and green eyes.

We don't know Riona's description, but she's certainly a possible candidate.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 11, 2018 at 4:23 AM, finished with 470 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X] Homura: Look after her; she's been going through a lot.
    -[X] Break to voting if any point needs more detail, or if Homura seems troubled. Don't be pushy.
    -[X] Tone: Relief and concern.
    -[X] Attempt hugs.
    -[X] How is she doing?
    --[X]Encourage her to express herself as needed.
    -[X] Acknowledge her efforts and hardships.
    --[X] ... And your part in them. Apologize again for being so pushy.
    -[X] Thank her. Her trust means a lot to you.
    -[X] Ask for any concerns she has.
    -[X] Relax. Comment:
    --[X] Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
    --[X] Raiding Yakuza for (4D) pocket money.
    [X] O&K.
    -[X] Probably a 'random' apartment.
    -[X] You don't know the Kure adults. Could be a bad idea.
    [X] Everyone.
    -[X] Explain your discomfort when dropping heavy topics. Ask if there's anything you can do to make it less stressful?
    -[X] Offer to watch the spar video.
    [X] Put in an order for the tracking devices.
    [X] If there's time, practice enchantment:
    -[X] Try using Control Magic...
    --[X] On Grief.
    --[X] To shape something into a Pocket Brina.
    [X] Homura
    -[X] Tone: Soft. A bit tired. Relief. Concern.
    -[X] Ask permission: hug teh homu?
    -[X] Acknowledge the amount of trust she's giving us. The efforts she's making.
    --[X] Thank her. Not just formally. Her trust touches us, emotionally; she deserves to know that.
    --[X] Apologize for putting so much stress on her. Not just conversations, or our approach to allies/enemies/information/policy. We keep pushing; our whole modus operandi is pushing. We break her world's paradigms, its certainties. For good, we hope. But we know it's a lot.
    -[X] Ask how she's doing. Gently, encourage her to express her feelings.
    --[X] General emotions? Additional Oriko concerns?
    --[X] Listen to her. Don't just jump into reassuring. Seriously consider responses.
    --[X] Break to vote as necessary. (e.g. Reassurance needed/expanding upon conversation)
    -[X] When appropriate: relax.
    --[X] Comment about Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
    --[X] Ask about hitting another Yakuza base for (4D) pocket money.
    [X] Propose making a robust Grief-construct lie detector, testing it among yourselves, and having you and Homura question Oriko and Kirika with it. If it works, you can eliminate the question of trust altogether. You could even make questioning sessions a regular thing, if absolutely necessary.
    [X] If Sayaka isn't willing to provide escort for them, you will. You've done it before, after all, and things went well. Besides, you've already trusted Kirika to have your back in combat more than once--and she's performed above and beyond expectations every time.
    [X] Homura
    -[X] Tone: Relief and concern.
    -[X] Attempt hugs.
    -[X] Look after Homura, ask how she's doing, encourage her to express her own feelings, acknowledge her efforts.
    -[X] Relax.
    --[X] Comment about Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
    --[X] Ask Homura about hitting another Yakuza base for (4D) pocket money.
    [X] Plan Acknowledge Wrongs Done
    [X] Oriko and Kirka decisions
    -[X] Set dates for defendants to speak, later determination of sentence.
    --[X] Must learn how to do this despite the powerful feelings and belief difficulties.
    -[X] Move them, adopt a proactive boundary approach to security? The techniques must generally apply to other Magical Girl security threats.
    --[X] Sentinel animals, magical radar, tripwires, proximity, pick an approach to develop first.
    --[X] Check in by phone and neighbors in addition to GPS. Lie detector enchantment inspections on demand.
    -[X] Oriko reacted positively to saving others. Our job is to train her thoroughly to that. Sayaka should determine progress.
    -[X] Community service isn't just fighting / working for us. Most of their outdoor time will be mundane charity work.
    --[X] We choose the circumstances, in this case to maximize empathy.
    -[X] Back to school for them, if we can find a safe way. Too much free time.
    -[X] Confinement in a dormitory setting. Others do not need to be prisoners. They must be cooperative informants.
    --[X] Daily Supervised trips outside, if no assigned social task.
    --[X] Designed until you are all satisfied.
    [X] More on the GENERAL topic of adult help now? Anri is still out there. We still need civic development assistance. Refugees are in mourning.
    -[X] Emotion is the defining feature of our powers. We need to get better at emotion. There is training.
    -[X] Ask alternatives. Ask preferences for how they want to see this happen.
    --[X] If Rionna aides us we have no way to cement those gains, or spread the help once she leaves.
    -[X] We interview and hire crisis intervention psychaitrists NOW. Therapists for emotional skills development next.
    -[X] Older Magical Girls might be worth contacting now? Tsubaki?
    -[X] Watch DVD. Also enchant a little. That soft rock is ready for other magic now...? Pass it around. Or try to transform it into various objects.
    --[X] Try to transform the enchnated rock into ice cube? A candle? Fruit? Imagine strongly
    -[X] Telepathy Hijiri. Offer caring invite. Ask where she is bedding down. We could be helping.
    [X] Telepathy Masami & Hiroko about Ono and Kuroki.
    [X] Tracking:
    -[X] The same ribbon method that Mami used to track Anri should also work to let Sayaka track Oriko and Kirika. If they leave the areas we designate or break the connection, she'd know immediately.
    [X] Where to move them:
    -[X] Move back in with Kirika's parents? Would they accept their daughter's lesbian lover, even if she's rich?
    -[X] Oriko's warehouse hideout?
    -[X] What to do with Oriko's house?
    --[X] Does Sayaka want to burn it down? Only seems fair.
    --[X] Does Sayaka want to keep it? Only seems fair.
    --[X] Use it for refugee housing?
    --[X] Sell it to pay back all the people displaced by the apartment fire?
    [X] Regardless of O&K, the issues of a justice system are still something we need to address:
    -[X] Getting adults involved?
    -[X] Is this something Sayaka would want to share with her parents?
    --[X] Would she want Oriko to confess to them?
    -[X] Legal scholars? Maybe the Shizukis know somebody?
    -[X] We really do need a psychologist to try and rehabilitate people like Anri. We can't just imprison her for life, especially when meguca are effectively immortal. Have to try to cure her.
    -[X] hug teh homu
    [X] Homura
    - [X] Hug teh homu
    [X] Ask permission to hug teh homu
 
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