Well for me its a win win, cause worse case she kills herself thus we no longer have to waste time with her, best case we fix her up and we have intel on major disasters.

craaaawling iiiin my skiiiin

But, @Kaizuki , thing is, healing psychological problems via just one talk is also anime trope which has nothing to do with real life. If we made any progress at all last time we talked to her (and I think we did, but I need to check), then patience is the name of the game.
 
Except then we immediately hit the other side of the precog spiral, eyes: ANY attempt to convince Oriko to not be suicidal slams into the mighty "My precog said I have to die, so stop trying to give me hope!"

We've tried to do what you're saying before, eyes. It gets us thrown out.
We haven't tried that yet. We can convince her not to rely on her precog afterwards. The precog is the smaller problem.
 
Except then we immediately hit the other side of the precog spiral, eyes: ANY attempt to convince Oriko to not be suicidal slams into the mighty "My precog said I have to die, so stop trying to give me hope!"

We've tried to do what you're saying before, eyes. It gets us thrown out.
We tried your plan, too, the exact same way you're proposing it here even:
"Probably not," you agree. "Though some days I wonder. In any case... Even if I might be naive... are you really one to talk, Miss Save-the-world?"

She rocks back a little, outrage flickering across her face even as you press the attack.

"We're all naive in some ways. We're all hopeful about some things. I just happen to be more hopeful in general," you say, leaning forward on the table to give your words emphasis, pulling your chair up a little. "Easier, though?" you ask, voice dropping to something between a growl and a snarl.

"Easier? That, Oriko-" your eyes narrow to slits, annoyance bubbling. To be honest, love Kirika she might - but here and now, she's insulting their relationship and Kirika herself. "Is you dying easier for Kirika? Or any of the people who owe you their lives?"

Oriko falls silent, her eyes dipping to the table.

"I-it's not," Kirika whispers, voice shaking as she wraps herself around the seer a little tighter. "It's not it's not it's not. I don't want you to die, Oriko, I don't want you to."

"I-" Oriko's voice catches in her throat, her hand closing over Kirika's. "I know."

You exhale, annoyance dying, drained away. You can't exactly sustain it, in the face of that. "You don't want to. Kirika doesn't want you to. I don't want you to," you say, voice steely. You keep your gaze on Oriko, icy blue eyes unyielding even if she doesn't meet them. "You don't have to. It's never hopeless, and I am never going to give up on you." You flick your eyes over to Kirika. "Neither is Kirika."

Kirika nods. "I won't," she agrees, voice steady and clear for a moment before it cracks. "O-Oriko, please."

"You are worth fighting for," you say.

It's that simple.

Perhaps, once, you thought her your enemy.

That was then, this is now.

"And it hurts to see you give up on yourself," you tell Oriko. "Because you don't have to die. Giving up means it's over. Giving up means losing. I can't and I won't give up."

"I know you won't give up," Oriko says, looking tired.

"Mmmmm," you agree. "I know I'm hammering the point hard, Oriko. But I want you to understand where I'm coming from. And Kirika, you won't give up either, will you?"

The black haired girl shakes her head.

"There you have it. And, well, to be honest, Oriko... I reckon that people like you and me..." you smirk a little, a wry little quirk of your lips. "I reckon that we're here because we're meant to beat the odds. This isn't an anime, no. But cliché or not, there is hope - for everyone. That includes you, Oriko."

"We've... We've already beaten the odds," Kirika whispers. "O-Oriko. We have."

"Yeah," you agree, jumping on the point. "I mean, you're still here, right?"

Oriko sighs. "It's not the same."

"Why not?" you say. "You were so convinced you'd die. And you didn't." Your smirk strengthens a little. "Again -and I'll say it as many times as I need to- you are worth fighting for. What you're going through, what we're facing... none of it's insurmountable."

She sighs again, but doesn't contradict you.

You nod slowly. "I'm going to tell you about that other Oriko," you say. "And maybe it won't let you come to an epiphany, just like that - but maybe it will."

Oriko shrugs with one shoulder. Nevertheless, she straightens a little and meets your eyes. Kirika looks up at you too, faint curiosity peeking through her worry.

Absently, you check your privacy rings - all three of them are still glowing in your senses, perfectly functional. "About a week from now, or perhaps a little more," you murmur. "One night, you'll be out wandering a public park, because you didn't want to be home alone."

"Alone?" Oriko asks, voice toneless.

Your turn to shrug. "That you hadn't gotten Kirika to live with you."

"Ah," Oriko says. "That's... disappointing." There's something in her eyes that tells you that she knows exactly why that other her wouldn't have wanted to be at home without Kirika in it.

She'd found her father's body after he'd hung himself.

"Perhaps," you say, shaking those thoughts free. "But then... you meet a little green haired girl in the park - perhaps you know her."

"Chitose Yuma," Oriko murmurs. "Miss Sakura's current protégé."

"That's her," you agree. "You talk it out a bit. The next day, you have a vision of her dying. Her heart simply giving out from the chronic abuse her shitstain of a mother heaped upon her." And if your voice is a bit more biting than it usually is, who could blame you?

Not Kirika, listening with hopeful, worried eyes

Not Oriko, barely breathing as she watches you.

"So you saved her," you say. "And there was a magical girl, Sasa Yuuki, from Kasamino. She comes after the territory here, and... you and Kirika fight her off. And in doing so, in protecting each other..." You smile at Oriko. "You unlock your powers fully. Fighting wholeheartedly. You go on to fight Walpurgisnacht."

"And, I presume, we die," Oriko says. She shakes her head. "I don't see how that was supposed to help."

You purse your lips, considering the matter. The fact is, you could tell her, in as many words, what that other Oriko's realisation was. You just don't know whether it'd do any good.

[] Write-in

=====​

Mmmm. Uncertainty all around.

You shrug, searching your memories. You... remember them ready to face Walpurgisnacht, but... You don't remember the outcome of that fight. "Maybe they did, maybe they didn't," you say. "I honestly don't know. My.. clairvoyance, weird alternate timeline knowledge, whatever, doesn't tell me what happened after that."

Oriko nods, expression tired, shoulders set. Not all that different from before. Simple, fatalistic acceptance that you're... unfortunately familiar with, from her.

"That's not the point, though," you say. "Really, it isn't."

"I know the point you're trying to make," Oriko says, meeting your eyes. "That if I can simply try to, to think like that other me, I'd be fine. That's... that's not how people work."

You sigh. "Not quite," you say. "The point is that that version of Oriko had better odds against Walpurgisnacht than you do. She could shoot frigging lasers, and she wasn't crippled by her own magic. She used her visions - they didn't use her. And whatever happened, if you died, you died together, with no regrets."

"Sabrina..." Kirika sits up a little, frowning at you.

Oriko's jaw sets. "I'm sorry I'm not as 'awesome' as my other self," she growls.

You frown. "Oriko," you say. "You know me. You know me. That's not what I'm trying to say at all."

"It sounds like you are," Oriko snaps.

You press your lips together. "Oriko," you say. "I wouldn't do that. My point is-"

Oriko interrupts you, slapping her hand to the table and half rising. Kirika starts to stand by her side. "That I'm not good enough, I'm not determined enough-"

You remain seating - but you interrupt her. "No," you say, cutting across her speech. "You are. You are, Oriko. That is the point I want to make. You were happy then - you can be happy now."

Oriko opens her mouth to say something, but you cut her off with a sharp, slicing motion of your hand. "Listen to me, Oriko," you snap, voice rising just a hair. Kirika bristles, her mouth pulling into an unhappy jag - but you have a point to make.

You power into the silence, staring them down. "Fate isn't written in stone", you snarl. "We're magical girls, for goodness' sake - we make the impossible possible. You know that!"

When the seer glances up at you, something dark and sullen blazes in her eyes and the twist of her lips. "Are you going to let me talk?"

You sigh. "Go ahead, Oriko," you say. "Look, I'm not trying to demoralise you. Quite the opposite. So... Go on."

"I am not her. I am not my other self," Oriko says, her voice a low, bitter thing. "Perhaps you are right; the potential exists. I will grant that." She meets your gaze steadily. "But it is hard to be optimistic when I can see the future and all I see is death. Maybe you're correct. This... isn't the meaning of my life."

She takes a breath, jaw tightening. "Perhaps. But it's hard to see what it is when all I see is death and failure. And soon I won't even see that."

"That's not true in the slightest," you counter. "Oriko, what were the odds? After you burned down Sayaka's house, that we'd just... drop out of thin air and stop you, right there? Just because you don't see a way to survive doesn't mean that we can't make one."

Oriko's nostrils flare. "There isn't one," she hisses. "For all your pretty speeches, you don't have a solution."

"I have one," you counter. "But the solution needs to come from you, as trite as it sounds. You need to realise-"

"-the meaning of my life, yes, I've heard it already," Oriko cuts you off, glaring at you.

"I've proven your visions wrong," you say, folding your arms. The fabric of your sleeves pull uncomfortably at your elbows. "I've proven your visions wrong, and you've proven your visions wrong. You see possible outcomes. You of all people should know how many people 'should' have died by now. You've fought fate-"

"I fight it where it isn't inevitable," Oriko hisses. "When every path I might tread doesn't lead to an end."

"And they don't," you insist, frustration bleeding into your tone. "I've proven your visions wrong, and you've countered your own visions. They're not infallible, and they're leading you down a dead end. We've already stacked the deck against Walpurgisnacht -and whatever more is to come- to a degree greater than it already has."

You jab your finger at Oriko. "Do you want to talk about visions, Oriko?" you demand. "I've seen it destroyed. I've seen Walpurgisnacht destroyed, and no one had to die for it."

Oriko's expression sets hard. "Then so be it," she says. "I think I've heard everything you have to say. And I think you can leave."

Kirika's orange eyes go wide, shocked, as her head snaps around to stare at her girlfriend. "Oriko..." she says.

"Kirika, we're just going in circles," the seer says, raising her hand to cover Kirika's.

"No," Kirika says, shaking her head. "No. No, Oriko, I t-think... this is a mistake."

Oriko groans, her head lolling back with eyes closed. "Sabrina. Please," she whispers. "Just... leave me alone for a while. We can talk more later. If that's alright, Kirika?"

"I-" Kirika shakes her head. "I don't... I... it feels like that's a mistake, Oriko."

[] Write-in

=====​

Oh dear.

Inhale...

And exhale, slow and measured, as your eyes slide closed.

You hold it like that for a moment, choking back your worry and your frustration.

When you open your eyes again, you feel... calmer, if not quite settled. You glance at their Soul Gems - both are fine, the clear Seed doing its job of keeping them both perfectly clean. Nothing to worry about there.

Your own Soul Gem, then. You detach it from the lapel of your coat, staring at the patina of Grief swirling under the surface. With a curl of your lips, you wipe it away, mottled purple mist swirling away to collapse into marbles.

You look up to find Oriko still glowering sullenly at you.

That's fair.

You've been pushing, and you've been pushing hard.

"I'm sorry," you say. You keep your words slow and even, carefully enunciated. "I'm sorry, Oriko. I've been pretty unfair to you, here."

Oriko stills, and her eyes narrow a hair. She doesn't say anything, unreadable gaze shadowed by her fringe. Her one arm remains wrapped around Kirika in, and the black haired girl, for her part, is practically sitting on her lap. Bright, citrine eyes fix on you in an intense stare.

There's so very much riding on you, isn't there?

"I'm sorry," you sigh. "I just thought that... as painful as it might be, hoping and trying is better than the alternative. And hey. You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take and all that, right?" You smile weakly at them.

Kirika nods slightly, swallowing as she glances at Oriko, whose lips tighten a little.

"Except..." You sigh again. "Ugh, I'm doing it again. I just want you and Kirika to be alive and happy. Except I went about it entirely the wrong way, and I've been pretty inconsiderate."

"N-no," Kirika says, seeming to find the strength from somewhere to straighten a little. "No. You were trying to help, Sabrina." She licks her lips, eyes darting from Oriko to you and back again. "I... I just think..." She breaks off, shaking her head.

You wait for a moment, but she doesn't seem inclined to continue. So you start speaking again, slow and careful, almost meditative as you reflect. "So I'm sorry," you say. Kirika opens her mouth again, but you forestall her with a raised hand. Her mouth clicks shut. "I'm sorry for being inconsiderate and pushy, Oriko, Kirika. I just-"

You choke yourself off. You're pushing. You're always pushing. It's a habit of yours, and to be honest, you sometimes refer to it internally as Gilgameshing. Like the character. And that's not inaccurate. Not just against Oriko, and in this case... Maybe you shouldn't push her, but... you're honestly not sure how to get her out of these straits apart from maybe letting her go free.

Which, if you're honest to yourself, has an excellent chance of resulting in a pair mysterious "death by fatal lead poisoning" cases within the week. Homura's not in the slightest rational about Oriko.

"I'm sorry that I can't seem to do anything more to help you or make things easier," you say, grimacing unhappily. "As much as I want to. All I can say is... I'll try." You meet Oriko's eyes. "I'll try the best I can, even if... even if it doesn't mean anything to you. You deserve it."

Oriko sighs. "I believe you," she says, voice bitter and tired. "And I appreciate it. I just... It's just..." She sighs, glancing away.

Kirika glances up at you. "Sabrina?" she whispers. "C-could I talk to you outside? I-if that's OK, Oriko?"

Oriko nods.

"G-give us a minute, Sabrina?" Kirika asks, looking back at you with a weak smile on her face.

You smile. "Of course," you say, standing and pushing the chair back with a scrape.

The maid outfit dissolves in a flash of light, the cloth reweaving itself around you as you stump out of the room. You pause just out of sight, leaning against the wall for a moment, before pressing on and walking over to the great glass door. Silently, you slide it open and step outside before flopping onto a chair at the outdoor table.

You slump, pillowing your head on your arms, breathing deep of the heavy scent of roses. You're not sure you even want to talk to Mami right now.

Eh, that's ridiculous.

"Hey, Mami," you reach out.

"Sabrina!" Mami's voice rings bring and cheerful. "I think I did well for the test, thank you for your help!"

Despite yourself, you can't help but smile, mood bouyed a little. "Good to hear!" you respond, sitting up.

"How are you, Sabrina?" Mami asks.

"I'm OK," you respond. "Checking in on Oriko and Kirika right now, they're... not doing great."

"Ah," Mami says.

"Yeah. Doing what I can," you say. Out of the corner of your eye, you spot Kirika, and you wave at her. She waves back as she joins you at the table, smiling weakly.

"Hey, Sabrina," she murmurs.

"Ah," Mami says. "Is there anything I can do?"

"Hey, Kirika," you respond, smiling as best as you can at Kirika. "Holding up OK?" To Mami, you respond. "I... don't know. I'm honestly not entirely certain what to do in the first place, so..."

"Well, if there is anything, tell me, alright?" Mami responds. You can practically see the warm smile on her face, if a bit strained - it's funny, how emotions kind of sort of transmit along telepathy. Not that you're complaining.

"Y-yeah," Kirika says. She licks her lips, hesitating for a moment before continuing. "S-so you were getting at something earlier, right? With the whole... meaning of Oriko's life thing?"

"Of course, Mami," you respond telepathically. Out loud, you nod. "Yeah, I was."

"Is there... what was it?" Kirika asks. "Is it anything I can do?"

[] Write-in

=====​

Apologies - I meant to get this up earlier, but well. Been a shitty week, plus thesis submission coming up soon and tests. Whoo.

Took the liberty of combining the previous bandwagon with the previous one, since it slotted in nicely.

You give Kirika a thoughtful look, absently checking your bracelets - this isn't for Kyuubey's weird ear-manipulator appendage things. You can still sense Oriko's perfectly well, back in the kitchen, and your own and Kirika's are just fine.

"I..." you sigh, turning your attention fully to Kirika. "I just want Oriko to believe that there's another... another, better way for things to go. She seems to feel that there's only one way for this to end, and that it would be... better that way."

Kirika nods, eyes downcast.

"That isn't true," you say. "It just isn't. I was trying to get her to just... think about it."

You exhale, flattening your palms on the smooth, lacquered wood of the table. "That's not really what you're asking," you say. "I know. That other Oriko, much like your Oriko, had trouble controlling her magic. Her powers were always activated, always giving her visions."

Kirika nods. "Yeah," she says, chewing on her lip. "Yeah, that's about right. I... Oriko... we were running for a Barrier, when you caught us, that time. Two birds with one stone, Oriko said."

"Huh," you say. That's something, you guess. Not really relevant to the now, much like your thoughts about how you'd handle word of your exploits spreading, and meguca trickling into Mitakihara. "More than that... Oriko blamed herself for her father's actions. She... carried the blame for what he did."

"I know," Kirika says, shaking her head. The sun to her back shadows her eyes beneath her hair, her lips twisted and unhappy. "She doesn't deserve it. I've told her she doesn't."

"And, I suspect, she thanks you for it," you murmur. There's very little suspicion about it, truth be told. You know. "She tells you it means a lot, and it makes her happy. But deep down inside, she has trouble convincing herself. Yeah?"

"Y-yeah," Kirika agrees. "Yeah. That's exactly it."

"She's wrong," you say. Kirika rocks back on the bench at the simple declaration. "You know she is. I know she is. That Oriko fought for you, and to help Yuma."

Kirika blinks. Consternation gives way to thought, and then... she laughs, weak but real and joyful. "Thanks," she says.

You blink in surprise. "For what?"

"Sometimes I forget," she says, wondering and somehow surprised. "That Oriko can be wrong."

"Heh," you chuckle. "Guess so."

"She's wrong..." Kirika echoes. "Wrong to think she's going to die." Citrine eyes, kindled with eager hope, flick back up to you. "What else?"

"Her visions," you say. "Well, not the visions themselves, just that she relies on them way too much. Both Orikos. The other Oriko, though... as I said, she faced Sasa Yuuki. She fought for you, and she realised something."

Kirika leans forward on the table, sharp and alert.

You quote from memory, the words rolling off your tongue in a cadence you assume from Oriko. "'You don't have to be a good girl for anyone. You are who you are. So become someone you, yourself, want to be.'"

You leave off that last line of hers - 'don't become like me'.

Hah.

Who says you can't do tact?

"Who did she say that to?" Kirika murmurs, eyes lost as she slowly absorbs that. You can tell she hasn't missed the implications - ditzy Kirika might be, but she isn't stupid, and when it comes to Oriko, you'd imagine she's well and away glad to put in additional effort.

"Yuma," you answer. "And later... she concludes that it was for the best that she could fight wholeheartedly." You grin at Kirika, lopsided and rueful. "You're what matters to Oriko. That's what I've been trying and failing to get through to her - but it might not be something I can. I don't think she would hear it from me."

"Love is an infinity of limitations," Kirika mutters, distant and distracted. "Is it that easy?" She shakes her head, denying her own thoughts. "Simple isn't the same as easy."

"No," you agree. "It isn't." You grin at her as a sudden thought flashes through your mind. "Ironic and probably redundant that I'm telling you, but - love her. Maybe I could be wrong, but I do think that that's at least part of what Oriko needs here. Why her magic's the way it is."

"You're not wrong," Kirika says, something flashing in her eyes. Conviction, raw and intense, written in the set of her eyes and jaw. "You're not wrong."

You let out a slow breath. You weren't... you're not sure yourself. But you seem to have inspired Kirika, at any rate. "You're probably the only person who can get through to her, here and now," you say. "Just... try and talk her through it. Talk about what matters to her, try and get her to-"

"-to see our point of view," Kirika says, continuing past you. "To see that there's a way for her to live, and that it's alright for her to be happy, to live and to love." A warm smile spreads across her face as she looks past you, to the mansion beyond. "'bout right?"

"Yeah," you agree. "'bout right. Get her to see that she has value for being herself. Get her to live for herself, don't let her give up."

Kirika's little fang protrudes from her grin. "I think I can do that," she says. "Thanks, Sabrina."

You shake your head. "Don't thank me. What did I do, other than mess up with Oriko? This is all you. Just needed to give you a little push, right?"

"Meeeeeeeh," Kirika complains, supporting herself with her palms flat on the bench as she lets her head flop back and stare up at the sky. "Thank you anyway!"

"So... what now?" you ask. You find yourself smiling - her good mood's infectious.

Kirika tips her head back forward to grin at you. "Love her," she says. "'s that simple."

"Well, I meant me," you say. "I'm... not sure I'm doing this the right way. What do you think?"

"Yeah, I get to love her, not you," Kirika says, sticking her tongue out at you. "You have your own oujo."

You shrug. "So... nothing more for me to do?"

Kirika shrugs too. "D'you think you could let us go out sometime?" she asks. "I... I think Oriko would like to do something sometime."

=====​

Thesis crunchtime, whoooo.
In fact, now that I'm re-reading that bit, we actually went through both votes' worth of arguments already. The fallibility of Oriko's visions, Oriko not wanting to die but not seeing any way out, heck even @Higure's bit about how magic makes the impossible possible, all of it's in there. This is one of the problems with massively distorted timescales; this was all just a few days ago from Sabrina's perspective.
 
You let out a slow breath. You weren't... you're not sure yourself. But you seem to have inspired Kirika, at any rate. "You're probably the only person who can get through to her, here and now," you say. "Just... try and talk her through it. Talk about what matters to her, try and get her to-"

"-to see our point of view," Kirika says, continuing past you. "To see that there's a way for her to live, and that it's alright for her to be happy, to live and to love." A warm smile spreads across her face as she looks past you, to the mansion beyond. "'bout right?"

"Yeah," you agree. "'bout right. Get her to see that she has value for being herself. Get her to live for herself, don't let her give up."

Well, patience should have been the name of the game before we went and confronted her now?
Ugh.
 
In other words, what you especially don't want to do to someone who is already suicidal is take away one of their remaining motivations to live, which is what will happen to Oriko if you go about convincing her that her precognition, the thing that, at the moment, she is leaning on as what the Incubator gave her when she asked for a reason to keep living, is a broken sham. We need to dig out and treat the suicidal thoughts first, before we go about convincing Oriko that her precognition is not infallible.
I think something's been misunderstood.

The idea is not to break her faith in her precog as being useful. Quite the contrary, we should be emphasizing all the good she's done with it since she quit playing villain and started working with us to counter her "my dying will save the world" bullshit.

The idea is to put an end to this ridiculous notion that her visions of her death are inevitable and unpreventable when we've repeatedly been able to prevent her visions from coming true. Until we do that, she'll continue to hide behind the "I must die because I have forseen it" excuse and refuse to admit that she's suicidal, and attempts to help her will go nowhere.
 
Sometimes I wish we could solve the issue by letting Kirika hug it. I mean that can solve a LOT of issues... assuming by hug you mean 'eviscerate' on occasion.
 
I think something's been misunderstood.

The idea is not to break her faith in her precog as being useful. Quite the contrary, we should be emphasizing all the good she's done with it since she quit playing villain and started working with us to counter her "my dying will save the world" bullshit.

The idea is to put an end to this ridiculous notion that her visions of her death are inevitable and unpreventable when we've repeatedly been able to prevent her visions from coming true. Until we do that, she'll continue to hide behind the "I must die because I have forseen it" excuse and refuse to admit that she's suicidal, and attempts to help her will go nowhere.

Didn't she say that, even if she didn't need to die, she wants to?
 
[Q] Yank Oriko's gem.
- [Q] Give it to Kirika to protect.
- - [Q] Make a ring of Gentle Repose to sustain the body.
- [Q] Tell Kirika to save the cheerleader Oriko's life, we have to save the world.
- [Q] Give Oriko's gem back when we're done.
 
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[Q] Yank Oriko's gem.
- [Q] Give it to Kirika to protect.
- - [Q] Make a ring of Gentle Repose to sustain the body.
- [Q] Tell Kirika to save the cheerleader Oriko's life, we have to save the world.
- [Q] Give Oriko's gem back when we're done.

Unfortunately, this option is not off the table.
In hindsight, brainwashing powers, in particular to make people never feel any grief, would be much more useful and simple.
 
Honestly, I'm just sick of Oriko existing. She doesn't really offer anything even when her power works. She's deliberately obstructionist. We need Kirika, and Kirika needs her. But it's not Kirika who needs to be under house arrest to stop them from being a supervillain. Fortunately, we have an even more humane means of imprisonment than keeping Homura and us as wardens. Yank the gem. I'm done wanting to spend time on her.
 
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Honestly, I'm just sick of Oriko existing. She doesn't really offer anything even when her power works. She's deliberately obstructionist. We need Kirika, and Kirika needs her. But it's not Kirika who needs to be under house arrest to stop them from being a supervillain. Fortunately, we have an even more humane means of imprisonment than keeping Homura and us as wardens. Yank the gem. I'm done wanting to spend time on her.

Eh, that's a bit too callous. Sabrina is here explicitly to help everybody and those two are not villains despite all the Oriko's edge.
Also, Oriko and Kirika were really useful in solving Sendai, so that would be wasting useful assets to boot. Both callous and unpractical is not something worth doing.
 
We tried your plan, too, the exact same way you're proposing it here even:







In fact, now that I'm re-reading that bit, we actually went through both votes' worth of arguments already. The fallibility of Oriko's visions, Oriko not wanting to die but not seeing any way out, heck even @Higure's bit about how magic makes the impossible possible, all of it's in there. This is one of the problems with massively distorted timescales; this was all just a few days ago from Sabrina's perspective.

Except, you know, the core of the argument, that her visions are specifically linked to her subconcious AKA precog spiral.

>.>

You're literally choosing to be blind here.

But yes, there's a reason I basically want to just precog spiral her and then new vote. Because yeah, we've tried everything else. And none of it fucking worked.
 
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[Q] Yank Oriko's gem.
- [Q] Give it to Kirika to protect.
- - [Q] Make a ring of Gentle Repose to sustain the body.
- [Q] Tell Kirika to save the cheerleader Oriko's life, we have to save the world.
- [Q] Give Oriko's gem back when we're done.
Y'know, the thought has crossed my mind that if all else fails, we could take both their soul gems, duct tape them to a clear seed and bury the lot in a box twenty meters under the house where they can't get at them. Then Oriko wouldn't be able to kill herself, outside forces wouldn't be able to kill her, and neither of them could leave the premises, so Homura could lay off with the paranoia about what they're going to do. Then we could come back in a couple days with a trained psychiatrist and a prescription for Zoloft. :p


Didn't she say that, even if she didn't need to die, she wants to?
Nope. Just went back and checked. It's kind of implied by her calling it her "right" to die, but she's still hiding behind the "benefit the world" and "that's what my visions showed me" excuses.
 
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I agree with Kaizuki's argument, but if Kaizuki's changed her vote it is buried somewhere several pages back, so as far as I know a vote for her is not a vote for her proposal.

We need a franken-vote that merges the least confrontational aspects of both votes along with possibly a break back to voting and that's a little beyond my capabilities with typing on my phone.
 
I agree with Kaizuki's argument, but if Kaizuki's changed her vote it is buried somewhere several pages back, so as far as I know a vote for her is not a vote for her proposal.

We need a franken-vote that merges the least confrontational aspects of both votes along with possibly a break back to voting and that's a little beyond my capabilities with typing on my phone.

Fucking ninjas

Was just

Anyway

@DrZiztah

We really should agree with her statement, and I'm a tad sketchy about putting forward the "why does it have to be" line when she's going to answer with exactly what the line after that is supposed to address -- if we merge those two, add the agree action...

Reference:
[] But why does it have to be Oriko?
[] Your powers showed you what you wanted. A way to die meaningfully. But that's not what you wished for.


Suggested vote:
[] Calm down a bit before continuing. Tone: Gentle, but firm. Don't raise your voice. Don't antagonize.
[] Agree. Oriko has that right.
[] But why does it have to be, Oriko? Your powers showed you what you wanted. A way to die meaningfully. But that's not what you wished for.
[] Politely request her to put it all out and tell you everything, no hiding, no single-line answers. If she tries to circumvent the question or leaves out details in any way, gently call her out on it, and swerve back to the topic. "It's necessary" is not an answer.
 
Honestly, at this point I am at a loss as to what does Oriko want, what do Sabrina and Kirika think about it, what are the votes trying to do and so on.
 
Fucking ninjas

Was just

Anyway

@DrZiztah

We really should agree with her statement, and I'm a tad sketchy about putting forward the "why does it have to be" line when she's going to answer with exactly what the line after that is supposed to address -- if we merge those two, add the agree action...

Reference:
[] But why does it have to be Oriko?
[] Your powers showed you what you wanted. A way to die meaningfully. But that's not what you wished for.


Suggested vote:
[] Calm down a bit before continuing. Tone: Gentle, but firm. Don't raise your voice. Don't antagonize.
[] Agree. Oriko has that right.
[] But why does it have to be, Oriko? Your powers showed you what you wanted. A way to die meaningfully. But that's not what you wished for.
[] Politely request her to put it all out and tell you everything, no hiding, no single-line answers. If she tries to circumvent the question or leaves out details in any way, gently call her out on it, and swerve back to the topic. "It's necessary" is not an answer.
Regarding the last, you don't really account for her either to not accept the swerve, or just flat out say "No." to the request.
 
Regarding the last, you don't really account for her either to not accept the swerve, or just flat out say "No." to the request.

Preexisting issue with the ziztah vote that I'm not sure how to resolve.

I'd almost like to just cut that line. Like... Why not just

[] Calm down a bit before continuing. Tone: Gentle, but firm. Don't raise your voice. Don't antagonize.
[] Agree. Oriko has that right.
[] But why does it have to be, Oriko? Your powers showed you what you wanted. A way to die meaningfully. But that's not what you wished for.

Shortest fucking vote in the history of pmas. Does everything I've been advocating for. Calm down. Agree. Precog spiral.

What I like about the line, on the other hand

[] Politely request her to put it all out and tell you everything, no hiding, no single-line answers. If she tries to circumvent the question or leaves out details in any way, gently call her out on it, and swerve back to the topic. "It's necessary" is not an answer.

Is that if we could actually get Oriko to just ¥#!$ing pour her heart out to us, that would be goddamn amazing. This is an alluring prospect because we might actually learn enough about her to make an informed decision regarding her for once in our life.

It's possible she'll just melt down before this line or something. So, yeah, you're not wrong on that point landcollector. But at current time I'm not sure how to address possible changes to that, partly because my brain is not in PMAS-gear atm partly because uh... Actually that's probably the main reason.
 
On record, not changing vote under current circumstances because political logic -- prefer existing ziztah vote to existing competitor, ziztah vote in lead, existing kaizuki vote too small -> American_Third_Parties.wmv

Will alter vote if situation changes
There's three votes directly for you (and four for Mura->Ziztah); maybe tag all Ziztah's voters and see if they'll vote for you. If enough people do, you can change your vote without just splitting the bandwagon.
 
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