Be careful about over-generalizing.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
On a Rail pt. 28
You close your eyes, surprised in some ways at your own anger. It's sharp and hot and biting at the back of your mind, the sheer bullheaded stubbornness of Oriko's... fatalism drawing your ire. It's... unproductive.
You blow out a hard breath, and force yourself to sit back down. Kirika gives you a sharp look as she settles back on the sofa, too, the wire-taut tension never leaving her frame. You flash Mami a quick smile - you're alright. She smiles back a little, and takes your hand between both of hers.
"Fine," you say. Gentle, but firm. You don't need to snarl or rage like a cut-rate stage villain to get your point across - especially not now. You know Oriko's listening. That admission was more than you'd ever gotten out of her.
She wants to die. She's admitted as much, implicitly.
That's progress.
You work your jaw for a moment before continuing. "Fine. I agree, you do have that right," you say without any particular emphasis. "That doesn't mean you need to do it as soon as possible. And I do understand wanting your death -and your life- to have meaning."
"Do you?" Oriko asks, folding her hands on her lap. Kirika pouts and adds her hand to the pile, nudging insistently until Oriko turns her hand over to interlace their fingers. "Do you really, Sabrina? You have a grand destiny laid out before you, do you not? You know what you wish to do in life, if you'll pardon the turn of phrase."
"Do you not?" you counter. "I chose to care about my friends, to care about Mami, to fight against whatever may come. I mean, hell, I wanna save the world too, eventually. To help all the magical girls out there."
"I chose my goals," you say, and purse your lips. "But I have to wonder, Oriko, what goals did you choose? No, don't answer that, that's rhetorical, but this isn't." You meet her gaze square on, and let your voice drop an octave for that little bit of emphasis. "Oriko, is this about saving the world, or ending your life?"
"It's-" her voice goes sharp with outrage, anger cracking the smooth blankness of her expression. "I'm saving the world!"
"I believe you," you say, gesturing with one hand. "And yes, we're gonna succeed. But..." You chew on a lip for a second. "I'm not going to ask you why you have to die. We've been down that rabbit hole before. But Oriko, look. You can do a lot more alive than dead, and you have a... fixation on your own demise."
"It's what my visions show me," Oriko snaps.
You cock your head. "And you want to make sure your death has meaning, that you worked to the fullest extent of your capability to leave your impression on a better world, right?"
"If you want to put it in such tawdry terms, then yes," Oriko says. "I do."
"Alright," you say. "What would it take for you and Kirika to live a long, meaningful life together and eventually die as heroes? What needs to change for you to not die as villains?"
Oriko shrugs. "I cannot see the future anymore, but for what I remember," she says. "However, I imagine that would involve convincing Akemi Homura."
She has a point there, you suppose. "That much is true, but that's my problem to deal with," you say. "And I might have brought this up to you before, but I think it's worth reiterating. We are magical girls, Oriko, and we fight fate. We literally make the impossible possible, so visions or not, why are you just... submitting?"
"It's the best future I can find," Oriko hisses. "My first vision was of the end of the world, how it all falls apart. This is the best path."
"Why?" you challenge, squeezing Mami's hand. She squeezes back. "What makes it the best?"
"Everyone lives, ultimately," Oriko says.
"Except you? And Kirika?" you challenge, folding your arms.
Oriko shrugs eloquently. "Other futures are less..." her expression tightens. "Less optimal."
"Less optimal because you don't die?" you ask.
"I die regardless. That much is certain from my visions," Oriko says. "This is the way my death helps to prevent others from dying."
You blow out a hard breath, cocking your head to the side. Because that niggles at something you've been turning over in your head. "Just so we're clear, Oriko, your Wish gave you a vision, there and then. That was the... immediate effect of your Wish, and you additionally got precognitive visions as your power. Correct?"
Oriko frowns at you. "That is correct."
"Then... Well. Your visions show you what you want," you say. "A way to die meaningfully. But that's not what you Wished for, is it?"
"I am going to die," Oriko snaps, earning her a worried look from Kirika. "And I've told you. I've accepted that."
You open your mouth to report, but the words die as you hear the glass door slide open. You'd made the privacy field one way, after all - you can still observe the outside perfectly well, and if you carefully do not think about a localised Olber's paradox, it's like it's not even there.
Well, that, and the ever present sensation of Witch singing in the back of your mind.
Your eyebrows jerk up in surprise as Homura strides into the room, a wooden stocked submachine gun cradled at the ready. Her eyes scan warily, finally settling in your general direction - she can't see into your interdiction field, obviously.
Kirika makes a quiet noise in the back of her throat, eyes narrowing. She subsides only when Oriko puts a calming hand on her wrist.
"Ah... I'll go see what she wants?" Mami suggests, watching as Homura transfers the submachine gun - PM-9?- to her other hand, freeing the other. She flattens her fingers into a C-shape against her stomach, just beneath her navel.
"Sayaka," Mami says, words mirroring your realisation. She jolts bodily off the sofa, glancing back at you.
You flash her a smile and a nod, though you're tempted to bolt from the sofa yourself. Sayaka should be fine, it hasn't even been that long since you started talking to Oriko.
You watch as Mami pushes through the boundary of your privacy field and talks to Homura.
You watch as Homura shifts uncomfortably. Mami says something, and Homura nods before speaking.
You watch as Mami's expression freezes.
Homura beckons at you, but you're already on your feet, arms windmilling as you fight for balance. You plunge out of the privacy field and nearly crash facefirst to the floor, but Mami's hands catch you.
"Miki Sayaka ran into Sakura Kyouko," Homura says.
"Are they-" you start. Homura cuts you off.
"They're not fighting. Just talking," Homura says. "You've told Sakura about her already? Miki went east. Apparently, Sakura Kyouko was hunting and spotted her roofhopping from across the river."
You glance backwards, at the sphere of absolute, abyssal darkness that is your privacy field.
[] Write-in
... oh.
You blow out a hard breath, and force yourself to sit back down. Kirika gives you a sharp look as she settles back on the sofa, too, the wire-taut tension never leaving her frame. You flash Mami a quick smile - you're alright. She smiles back a little, and takes your hand between both of hers.
"Fine," you say. Gentle, but firm. You don't need to snarl or rage like a cut-rate stage villain to get your point across - especially not now. You know Oriko's listening. That admission was more than you'd ever gotten out of her.
She wants to die. She's admitted as much, implicitly.
That's progress.
You work your jaw for a moment before continuing. "Fine. I agree, you do have that right," you say without any particular emphasis. "That doesn't mean you need to do it as soon as possible. And I do understand wanting your death -and your life- to have meaning."
"Do you?" Oriko asks, folding her hands on her lap. Kirika pouts and adds her hand to the pile, nudging insistently until Oriko turns her hand over to interlace their fingers. "Do you really, Sabrina? You have a grand destiny laid out before you, do you not? You know what you wish to do in life, if you'll pardon the turn of phrase."
"Do you not?" you counter. "I chose to care about my friends, to care about Mami, to fight against whatever may come. I mean, hell, I wanna save the world too, eventually. To help all the magical girls out there."
"I chose my goals," you say, and purse your lips. "But I have to wonder, Oriko, what goals did you choose? No, don't answer that, that's rhetorical, but this isn't." You meet her gaze square on, and let your voice drop an octave for that little bit of emphasis. "Oriko, is this about saving the world, or ending your life?"
"It's-" her voice goes sharp with outrage, anger cracking the smooth blankness of her expression. "I'm saving the world!"
"I believe you," you say, gesturing with one hand. "And yes, we're gonna succeed. But..." You chew on a lip for a second. "I'm not going to ask you why you have to die. We've been down that rabbit hole before. But Oriko, look. You can do a lot more alive than dead, and you have a... fixation on your own demise."
"It's what my visions show me," Oriko snaps.
You cock your head. "And you want to make sure your death has meaning, that you worked to the fullest extent of your capability to leave your impression on a better world, right?"
"If you want to put it in such tawdry terms, then yes," Oriko says. "I do."
"Alright," you say. "What would it take for you and Kirika to live a long, meaningful life together and eventually die as heroes? What needs to change for you to not die as villains?"
Oriko shrugs. "I cannot see the future anymore, but for what I remember," she says. "However, I imagine that would involve convincing Akemi Homura."
She has a point there, you suppose. "That much is true, but that's my problem to deal with," you say. "And I might have brought this up to you before, but I think it's worth reiterating. We are magical girls, Oriko, and we fight fate. We literally make the impossible possible, so visions or not, why are you just... submitting?"
"It's the best future I can find," Oriko hisses. "My first vision was of the end of the world, how it all falls apart. This is the best path."
"Why?" you challenge, squeezing Mami's hand. She squeezes back. "What makes it the best?"
"Everyone lives, ultimately," Oriko says.
"Except you? And Kirika?" you challenge, folding your arms.
Oriko shrugs eloquently. "Other futures are less..." her expression tightens. "Less optimal."
"Less optimal because you don't die?" you ask.
"I die regardless. That much is certain from my visions," Oriko says. "This is the way my death helps to prevent others from dying."
You blow out a hard breath, cocking your head to the side. Because that niggles at something you've been turning over in your head. "Just so we're clear, Oriko, your Wish gave you a vision, there and then. That was the... immediate effect of your Wish, and you additionally got precognitive visions as your power. Correct?"
Oriko frowns at you. "That is correct."
"Then... Well. Your visions show you what you want," you say. "A way to die meaningfully. But that's not what you Wished for, is it?"
"I am going to die," Oriko snaps, earning her a worried look from Kirika. "And I've told you. I've accepted that."
You open your mouth to report, but the words die as you hear the glass door slide open. You'd made the privacy field one way, after all - you can still observe the outside perfectly well, and if you carefully do not think about a localised Olber's paradox, it's like it's not even there.
Well, that, and the ever present sensation of Witch singing in the back of your mind.
Your eyebrows jerk up in surprise as Homura strides into the room, a wooden stocked submachine gun cradled at the ready. Her eyes scan warily, finally settling in your general direction - she can't see into your interdiction field, obviously.
Kirika makes a quiet noise in the back of her throat, eyes narrowing. She subsides only when Oriko puts a calming hand on her wrist.
"Ah... I'll go see what she wants?" Mami suggests, watching as Homura transfers the submachine gun - PM-9?- to her other hand, freeing the other. She flattens her fingers into a C-shape against her stomach, just beneath her navel.
"Sayaka," Mami says, words mirroring your realisation. She jolts bodily off the sofa, glancing back at you.
You flash her a smile and a nod, though you're tempted to bolt from the sofa yourself. Sayaka should be fine, it hasn't even been that long since you started talking to Oriko.
You watch as Mami pushes through the boundary of your privacy field and talks to Homura.
You watch as Homura shifts uncomfortably. Mami says something, and Homura nods before speaking.
You watch as Mami's expression freezes.
Homura beckons at you, but you're already on your feet, arms windmilling as you fight for balance. You plunge out of the privacy field and nearly crash facefirst to the floor, but Mami's hands catch you.
"Miki Sayaka ran into Sakura Kyouko," Homura says.
"Are they-" you start. Homura cuts you off.
"They're not fighting. Just talking," Homura says. "You've told Sakura about her already? Miki went east. Apparently, Sakura Kyouko was hunting and spotted her roofhopping from across the river."
You glance backwards, at the sphere of absolute, abyssal darkness that is your privacy field.
[] Write-in
=====
... oh.
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- Location
- Germany
Your point being?
Oh, does that ean we should break Homura, Mami , Sayaka, Hitomi, MADOKA?
Because breaking systens is what we are meant to do?
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Sure breaking Madoka is how the final timeline happened, and breaking Homura got her devilhood, now if you ... update...
.... Update. why you got to be like that.
I sugest we dont change and contution working on Oriko.
- Location
- Germany
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
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- Voidbetweenstars
I don't see why we should not deal with oriko or at least make progress with her, their is no need to get involved and let our longest problem remained unsolved.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Who wants to bet first thing Kyouko said was something about fire and houses?
I mean, hopefully not, we asked her specifically to not do that...
Well, time for another choice. We're needed both here with Oriko and there with Sayaka. They're both doing badly enough that choosing one will harm the other, either because we let angry Sayaka confront Kyouko on her own, or because we leave Oriko hanging after all this... and she's got snappier this update.
...
Now, something that comes to my mind, actually from Naruto: When Jiraiya dies (spoiler alert) the manga goes on and on about how a ninja's meaning is not decided by what they do in life (since they live in a crapsack world), but by how the die, in which manner they choose to give up their lives (So Jiraiya was a hero because he died to help other fight a Big Threat, when he could have escaped and saved himself instead)
And I find this way of thinking actually fulfills Oriko's Wish: Her life will have meaning because she chooses to die, to sacrifice that life, in a way that helps others. Meanwhile, she feels that while living, she's not a 'good thing', so obviously, meaning can't be derived from life. Only from death.
Is there a name for a philosophy like this?
EDIT: Remembered somewhat wrong. Posted actual relevant thing later.
I mean, hopefully not, we asked her specifically to not do that...
Well, time for another choice. We're needed both here with Oriko and there with Sayaka. They're both doing badly enough that choosing one will harm the other, either because we let angry Sayaka confront Kyouko on her own, or because we leave Oriko hanging after all this... and she's got snappier this update.
...
And I find this way of thinking actually fulfills Oriko's Wish: Her life will have meaning because she chooses to die, to sacrifice that life, in a way that helps others. Meanwhile, she feels that while living, she's not a 'good thing', so obviously, meaning can't be derived from life. Only from death.
Is there a name for a philosophy like this?
EDIT: Remembered somewhat wrong. Posted actual relevant thing later.
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- Austria
I think Kirika has an idea similar to what thread thinks about it now.
Which is progress, but damn is this inconvenient timing.
Can we trust those two to not kill each other/set everything on fire? Is this even an emergency? Maybe telepathy to both of them to diffuse possible misunderstandings is enough?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
...huh. Actually, wait, this is an issue. Because we haven't told Mami that we told Kyouko about Sayaka yet.
On the other hand, we told Kyoko that we'd get back to her once we convinced Mami, and we haven't, so Kyouko should know that Mami might not have been convinced yet.
On the third, mutant hand, Kyoko expressed an intention of antagonizing Mami intentionally. So we should probably do some basic defusing before going in.
Something like:
[ ] Pinch your nose. Why is this your life.
-[ ] That's... that's just great. You were considering having Kyoko provide Sayaka with advanced melee training in the future - after discussing it with Mami.
--[ ] Look down at the ground. I wasn't... It wasn't an intentional secret! You thought you could discuss it tommorow, it wasn't urgent!
[ ] Sigh. We... we need to check up on the meeting, don't we?
On the other hand, we told Kyoko that we'd get back to her once we convinced Mami, and we haven't, so Kyouko should know that Mami might not have been convinced yet.
On the third, mutant hand, Kyoko expressed an intention of antagonizing Mami intentionally. So we should probably do some basic defusing before going in.
Something like:
[ ] Pinch your nose. Why is this your life.
-[ ] That's... that's just great. You were considering having Kyoko provide Sayaka with advanced melee training in the future - after discussing it with Mami.
--[ ] Look down at the ground. I wasn't... It wasn't an intentional secret! You thought you could discuss it tommorow, it wasn't urgent!
[ ] Sigh. We... we need to check up on the meeting, don't we?
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nihilism?
- Location
- Austria
Wait, do we? Can we just telepathy both of them to calm down and explain things?
Like, they are not stupid and, I think, can be trusted to not kill each other without any reason. Especially since Sayaka wasn't poaching in Kyouko's territory.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Nor have we told Sayaka.
I don't think that fits.
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- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
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As long as they are just talkingt it should be fine. I mean it might go horribly wrong, but Kyouko is more calm thanks to Yuma, so who knows.
I mean we should definetely finish dealing with the Oriko situation, because running off now certainly doesnt help. That said Homura and especially Mami in this case probably also aren't the right people to monitor KyoSaya and intervene in the case things go south for whatever reason.
I mean we should definetely finish dealing with the Oriko situation, because running off now certainly doesnt help. That said Homura and especially Mami in this case probably also aren't the right people to monitor KyoSaya and intervene in the case things go south for whatever reason.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Excuse me, it's Madoka's opinion nobody cares about.Yeah, but that's because nobody cares about Sayaka's opinion.
EDIT: We could telepathy Kyouko and ask her to be lenient with Sayaka; she just had a rather intense discussion and needs to cool off. Hell, if Kyouko could watch out for Sayaka, we'd appreciate it.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If Oriko was an existentialist, she would be defining and creating a meaning of her life for herself, despite the circumstances, not relying on wishes and visions.
- Location
- Austria
Depression?
More seriously, not appreciating life comes either with overall nihilism or...that's it? Other ways boil down to prioritizing other things more, but blatant disregard for life is not really often part of philosophy IIRC.
Actually, this might be a...hey, Kyouko might be a really good example of meguca life being not sunshine and rainbows! Come to think of it, it may be quite fortunate meeting, which would continue our earlier semi-lecture on "meguca life is hard".