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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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I think we can let them talk, with Homura on overwatch. If they start fighting (not sparring) she can timestop and come grab us, but I think we're at a critical point with Oriko. We need to stay.
 
Diomedon said:
I think we can let them talk, with Homura on overwatch. If they start fighting (not sparring) she can timestop and come grab us, but I think we're at a critical point with Oriko. We need to stay.
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This is another valid way. Either we contact one of them/both and do introductions or we hope they are going to just talk. I am not sure which one is better, but I think former disarms "Kyouko thinks it's a poacher" scenario better.
 
Yeah, Yuma has chilled Kyouko out a good bit, and with us nearby, getting a griefseed isn't quite as much a life or death matter as it used to be.
 
Diomedon said:
I think we can let them talk, with Homura on overwatch. If they start fighting (not sparring) she can timestop and come grab us, but I think we're at a critical point with Oriko. We need to stay.
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If a fight happens, I think we can leave it to Homura to pull Sayaka back. Contrary to previous timelines, Sayaka actually respects Homu, and would follow her if told to disengage.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Depression?
More seriously, not appreciating life comes either with overall nihilism or...that's it? Other ways boil down to prioritizing other things more, but blatant disregard for life is not really often part of philosophy IIRC.
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Nihilism has nothing to do with not appreciating life: it can subsequently lead to that ideal, but it does not intrinsically follow as such. Nihilism is about understanding that life has no Intrinsic or preordained value. Life has an ultimate meaning: to continue it's own existence through reproduction. What we make of life, however, is our own decision, not because god/the universe tells us to.
 
@Firnagzen some corrections:
"I'm not going to ask you why you have to die. We've been down that rabbit has been left before.
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rabbit hole? Whole sentence seems messed up.
You cook your head. "And you want to make sure your death has meaning, that you worked to the fullest extent of your capability to leave your impression on a better world, right?"
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cock
Oriko shrugs. "I cannot see the future anymore, but for what I remember," she says. "However, I imagine that would involve convincing Akemi Homura."
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I think Oriko says something else after this line?


Not a correction but:
"It's the best future I can find," Oriko hisses. "My first vision was of the end of the world, how it all falls apart.This is the best path."
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IMO, we need to ask Oriko about the details of that vision sometime soon. At least get an idea what not to do.
 
So...

[ ] Quick telepathy Kyouko: Ask her to be lenient with Sayaka, who's in a terrible mood with very good reasons.
[ ] Thank Homura very much.
[ ] Apologize for not bringing this up before, you've had some hectic days and didn't know when to bring it up - you asked Kyouko if she would help train Sayaka. You were supposed to talk it over with Mami and get back to Kyouko.
[ ] Go back to talking with Oriko.
(Where do we go from here?)
-[ ] She still hasn't answered why she felt the need to injure -hospitalize- so many people. What purpose did that serve?
-[ ] Call her out again on relying on her visions so much. If she's said the truth about 'Feathers' changing her visions, then she's a fool. She'll foresee the best future possible, die, and have it all undone in a second. Only now she won't be there to fix anything.
 
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Onmur said:
So...

[ ] Quick telepathy Kyouko: Ask her to be lenient with Sayaka, who's in a terrible mood with very good reasons.
[ ] Thank Homura very much.
[ ] Go back to talking with Oriko.
(Where do we go from here?)
-[ ] She still hasn't answered why she felt the need to injure -hospitalize- so many people. What purpose did that serve?
-[ ] Call her out again on relying on her visions so much. If she's said the truth about 'Feathers' changing her visions, then she's a fool. She'll foresee the best future possible, die, and have it all undone in a second. Only now she won't be there to fix anything.
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Can't we replace "talk to Oriko" parts with "keep line of discussion from before interruption"? We didn't use all of previous vote yet, or did we?
 
ctulhuslp said:
Can't we replace "talk to Oriko" parts with "keep line of discussion from before interruption"? We didn't use all of previous vote yet, or did we?
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There's the new (too new) Narrator's vote:
The Narrator said:
[x] Remain calm, rational and even-toned.
[x] Your right? You make it sound like you want to die.
[x] If she puts forth an excuse of any sort for why she has to die other than that she wants to, point out all the ways it's obviously not true until she's forced to admit it. Repeat for any other excuses that she might put forward.
-[x] If Oriko tries to claim that it's for the good of the world, ask her to explain precisely how her death at this point would benefit anyone.
--[x] Point out the logical flaws in her explanation, which doubtless will be numerous.
--[x] Remind her that because she didn't die like she originally planned, she's been able to help us avert at least three catastrophes and saved the lives of hundreds of people, including several magical girls.
--[x] Remind her that when she saved Sayaka's life a few days ago, she might very well have saved the world. Sayaka's death can potentially trigger a chain of events that will lead to the end of all human life.
--[x] Oriko can benefit the world far more by living and helping people than by dying. In fact, she already has.
-[x] If Oriko tries to claim that her death is inevitable because she foresaw it, remind her that her visions are preventable.
--[x] We've prevented her visions from coming true repeatedly in the past couple weeks. They have never been inevitable. Having them would be pointless if they were.
--[x] Not to mention that she can't really predict Sabrina at all. We've already saved her from a predicted death once. Why not again?
--[x] She never answered our question from before. Did she ever consider that she could destroy Sayaka's apartment when it was empty, and using a more controlled method, and it would have accomplished the same goals by hurting less people? If not, then why didn't her oh-so-flawless visions show her that option? Could it be that they're not showing her the best path, but the most self-destructive?
--[x] Oriko was depressed when she made her wish and she's depressed now. Her depression is subconsciously guiding her visions to only show her futures where she dies. Not because those are the only futures possible, but because those are the only ones that she wants to see.
-[x] If Oriko puts forth some other excuse, point out any obvious logical flaws or counterarguments that we've already covered in the thread. If it's something completely unprecedented that we have no response for, then break for voting.
[x] Continue refusing to accept excuses, evasions or changes of topic until Oriko is forced to face the fact that the only reason that she thinks she has to die is because she wants to die.
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I kind of rephrased two of the points there to be shorter and less openly confrontational:

Onmur said:
-[ ] She still hasn't answered why she felt the need to injure -hospitalize- so many people. What purpose did that serve?
-[ ] Call her out again on relying on her visions so much. If she's said the truth about 'Feathers' changing her visions, then she's a fool. She'll foresee the best future possible, die, and have it all undone in a second. Only now she won't be there to fix anything.
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There's one or two points left there; most of the vote's lines are very... related to each other, and could be summed up shorter.

I wouldn't directly go with this vote, though, it's needlessly aggresive, and directly calls to continuously deny Oriko until she gives up, as if that'd work. No offense.
 
The correct answer is to gather up everyone and do an expedition to introduce Oriko, Homura and Mami (Kirika already knows) to the magical world of shipping.
 
Firnagzen said:
"Miki Sayaka ran into Sakura Kyouko," Homura says.
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Well, I predicted that Sayaka would get into trouble, but I didn't think it would happen like that. :o

Did we ever warn Sayaka that Kasamino was someone else's territory?


ctulhuslp said:
Can't we replace "talk to Oriko" parts with "keep line of discussion from before interruption"? We didn't use all of previous vote yet, or did we?
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Worse. We actually skipped over what I think was the most important line of Higure's vote:
Higure said:
--[X]If she says she's destined to die, and is simply trying to make sure it counts, point out the fallibility of her visions. Provide examples and such as needed, if she doesn't immediately concede on their fallibility.
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We never challenged her precog. Never reminded her that her visions are preventable. Never suggested that she was subconsciously choosing to see the worst possible ends. Never challenged her claims that her death would benefit the world; in fact specifically said that we weren't going to even though that was not in the vote. We went along with her excuses instead of challenging them and, as I predicted, she's continuing to hide behind them and not admit the real problem.

So, we've actually gotten nowhere with Oriko. We hit another brick wall right before Homura interrupted us. And there wasn't much of the vote left anyway. So we might as well take the opportunity to try a different tack.


Onmur said:
[ ] Quick telepathy Kyouko: Ask her to be lenient with Sayaka, who's in a terrible mood with very good reasons.
[ ] Thank Homura very much.
[ ] Go back to talking with Oriko.
(Where do we go from here?)
-[ ] She still hasn't answered why she felt the need to injure -hospitalize- so many people. What purpose did that serve?
-[ ] Call her out again on relying on her visions so much. If she's said the truth about 'Feathers' changing her visions, then she's a fool. She'll foresee the best future possible, die, and have it all undone in a second. Only now she won't be there to fix anything.
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Oh, I forgot about the Feathers thing. Yet another way her precog is not infallible.

I'm gonna point out that we're not in timestop right now. Should probably do that first so we have time to talk.

Might be a good time to give Homura a Clear Seed so she can timestop freely.

Maybe ask Mami what she wants to do? It might be that she wants to avoid seeing Kyouko right now, or it might be that she wants to take the opportunity to speak with her again.
 
[X] Ask Homu if the tone of the conversation was negative enough too justify- Well, actually, given how she thinks of Oriko, that's a given. But ask her what the tone of the conversation was like. Was it confrontational? Commiserating? A violence to Grammar?
-[X] We should only step in if things get out of hand. Thank Homurun for helping with Sayaka; we really appreciate everything she does for us. We owe her one.
--[X] In the unlikely event things are out of hand, timestop over there and intervene.
[X] If not, then continue with Oriko.
-[X] "Accepting the inevitability of your own death is perfectly fine, but actively seeking it isn't. We already know the Feathers and Myself can both change time to not line up with any of your visions; What if you die and then the timeline changes because of Feathers? Then we're down a pre-cog for basically no reason. And if ALL your visions say you die, then I'll change them. You may have accepted your death Oriko, but I have not."


[Q] If things get out of hand between Sayaka and Kyouko, drop Oriko in the middle of them both and let them talk to her. Nothing forges friends like a mutual enemy!
 
The Narrator said:
We never challenged her precog. Never reminded her that her visions are preventable. Never suggested that she was subconsciously choosing to see the worst possible ends. Never challenged her claims that her death would benefit the world; in fact specifically said that we weren't going to even though that was not in the vote. We went along with her excuses instead of challenging them and, as I predicted, she's continuing to hide behind them and not admit the real problem.

So, we've actually gotten nowhere with Oriko. We hit another brick wall right before Homura interrupted us. And there wasn't much of the vote left anyway. So we might as well take the opportunity to try a different tack.
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No, we did not skip over it, we were interrupted in the middle of talking about her wish and how it probably interacted with her desire to die. Kirika caught on on it too, it seems.
So returning to the previous line of discussion means keeping talking to Oriko about self-feeding loop of death wish and precognition.
 
[Q] Convince mom to let you take Best buddy and bucket hat out for a bit.
- [Q] Tell best buddy that we're going shipping.
 
So it seems Oriko misunderstood us in that last statement. We need to spell out that we believe her desire to die is tainting her visions so much so that all she see's is death.
 
We could... Hm.

I think optimally, we'd nudge the conversation between Sayaka and Kyouko via tekepathy and return to working over Oriko. That might peeve Homura... Hm.

But, something like

"Telepathy Sayaka. 'Ask her about Chitose Yuma if she hasn't come up.'"

And then just disconnect the telepathy net -- back under privacy.

If we can nudge Kokosaya in a positive direction that will do more good than any outcome of us actually going there would achieve.

First, though, we need to get more information from Homura. What are they talking about? How heated is it? Grief levels?

We could learn a lot by timestopping over there, breaking timestop just long enough to pick up the tone, timestop back.

But right now we should three to timestop immediately. Not because of danger, but because we're this close to breaking through on Oriko it looked like, and we need to explain our interactions with Kyouko to Mami now.

More detail later, but

[] Three to timestop
[] This close to breaking Oriko right now, we're going to need to deal with everything simultaneously.
[] 'Splain Oriko to both if requested
[] Light Kokotalk Mami -- Koko Talk as "want reconcile mumifriend!", "I didn't want to bring it up until I had solid results {Koko train seikyu, should further mellow koko} which... I actually somewhat do as of yesterday. But, uh, yesterday and today... Yeah. Tomorrow was the plan. Guess it's happening today, though..." Make it clear we're not trying to replace ourselves. May want to ask Homu to step out of room for this bit.
[] Timestop over to kokoseikyu? Investigate body language? Eye of Sauron instead? Evaluate & obtain more intel. Question Homura.
[] Push Seikyu in right direction (AKA towards Yuma) if possible / reasonable
[] Sic Homura on it. If anything that meets condition/s XYZ happens, response QWP
[] Kill the privacy device?
[] Fucking finish her Oriko
 
Gah... I was working on a preliminary vote, but not being sure whether Mami will want to face Kyouko right now is making things complicated.

I wonder, if we dropped things with Oriko now to go see Kyouko and came back to it later, would we really lose much ground? S'not like we'd made much progress, and Homura's arrival has already broken the flow of the conversation. The Kyouko and Sayaka situation does seem to be the more time-sensitive. It's not like Oriko is going to die in the next twenty minutes, right?

[q] Tell Oriko that we have something that we have to go deal with, but we'll be back later to finish this.
-[q] Ask her to try not to slit her wrists while we're gone. :p
[q] Timestop and go deal with KyouSaya.
 
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