I would not say no to this, as long as the resulting entity teaches the coobs the true meaning of fear.
I would not say no to this, as long as the resulting entity teaches the coobs the true meaning of fear.
Fear is the emotional reaction to perceived danger. There is no mystery. /人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\I would not say no to this, as long as the resulting entity teaches the coobs the true meaning of fear.
I don't think anybody wants to _settle_ for saving Earth. Merely that for now, planning beyond that point is putting the cart before the horse.
Let's clean up our backyard first.
(Oh and maybe get Madoka to read some Asimov. Just as insurance.)
(Unrelated: magical time travel exists. That means we may eventually be able to emulate it. So, I wonder if we can figure out how to travel into the future and kill/control our own witch. [edit] Hm. After we figure out how to fix soul gems, anyways. Can't let Madoka be the only one with a witch-based paradox...)
Why travel into the future to control our Witch? Our Witch is right there, on the Gem! We just have to poke it.(Unrelated: magical time travel exists. That means we may eventually be able to emulate it. So, I wonder if we can figure out how to travel into the future and kill/control our own witch. [edit] Hm. After we figure out how to fix soul gems, anyways. Can't let Madoka be the only one with a witch-based paradox...)
They're aware of it, no need to reiterate.The Mods have spoken, please calm down the salt, or suffer a thread ban for it.
Actually, if memory serves, all grief in the area of antimagic, we lose control over. It is basically as if the grief left our 100m area of control, and it does it's 'try to condense into something and then evaporate' thing.Notes: Kirika's anti-magic just stops Sabrina from being able to move Grief around, existing constructs aren't damaged in any way; leaving her behind really doesn't do anything.
Also, might want to consider adding a 'fix/repair/restore normal spiritual/magical flows' property to the ring, if only so the underlying issue to Oriko's problem doesn't get worse while looking for a more solid fix.
And we should do that thing about making things that make other things. Try 10 or 20 iterations, see if the final product doesn't vanish when we leave it outside our range.
EDIT: Also, are we ever gonna try and get people used to Witchy Grief? We could start by getting everybody out on a training session, and tinkering with it.
It's not random and unhelpful... This situation might have been resolved already if we knew of our own capabilities now. Maybe not, but it would have already had most of our current questions answered.
Um, didn't Mami say such a low range was not normal? Paraphrased mangled quote "...A few have a range of 100m, but that's unusual."
Firn is a scientist as well I agree. I'm sure his mind goes more along the lines of real scientific procedure then the "Add SCIENCE and it instantly works if possible" method that has been followed.We've barely tried anything. I think the real sticking point here is how we think Firn is handling our experiments. You seem to be taking a heavily fiction-esque view, in that if it was going to work it would have worked after the first one or two tries.
Wasn't this time spent when everyone was in School and we were left to do nothing but kick our heels basicly? I mean there were some things we could do I suppose, like talk to Kyokou, or the Telekinetic/Illusion girls. Which we did do. Don't need to be constantly with them clingy. I think we were using our time wisely.Flailing in the dark is how we wasted entire days in-story and let things deteriorate on the social front thanks to our collective SCIENCE-fetish making us spend time on nonsense instead of the social aspect.
This is a very valid thing to try. I mean we DID create a close combat harness/suit thing. It made us KNOW how to fight and gave us the skills etc. That's a mental effect right there. Accelerated Learning, Accelerated Perception or Accelerated Thought are just a few ways this could possibly work. Now the implanted combat skills faded, but things we learned, but faster with a grief tool... I hesitate to say they would fade.Anyway, that's probably an ideal session. Though I'd try a learning accelerator over a power boost. That's likely to get much better results.
I'm still not convinced that that's what happened. We don't know if our barrier was related to that craziness or not. We should have done more testing before closing off a potentially useful area of research.
Exactly, It hasn't even been a full 24 hours since the first test, let alone the second barrier we created with Mami.The problem with that is the risk that our testing might well have resulted in unmitigated disaster. Oh, and that our experiments had already resulted in issues with Mami.
Oh, and that we haven't even had the time to experiment with barriers since then anyways.
A google doc perhaps or google spreadsheet?Important observation: we need to make this metaphorical list into an actual, updated list. Any suggestions on what kind of list and how to implement it?
Exactly, We made a Grief!Healing item, and a Grief!MagicBooster. The former was mostly ineffective at permanent healing, was the latter was moderately ineffective, but worked better. A Grief!HealingSkillBooster would presumbly have nothing to do with the actual healing, but our ability to actually heal. We would lose the knowledge like the combat booster, but the results of what we did should remain. And perhaps a Grief!HealingSkillLearningAccelerator might do a more permanent gain in skill? Meh.Um, that isn't actually what happened. We made the Rod, but we didn't actually try to boost our own healing powers with a grief item, we just made a grief!healing item to do it for us.
In other words, healing skillbooster is still on the list.
1. 100 meters is already considered an outlier, implied to be much better when it came up. If you disagree and have the quote where it was talked about, feel free to link it. Sendai was against a ramiel light specialist and we've never seen that kind of range from anyone else.
I agree Sereg, here's the story quote.No, it was not implied to be much better. The shadow specialist also out ranged us and so did the teleporter and the clone. Mami's reaction implied that she was surprised our range was so small after she had previously seen us send grief to the end of our range without reacting to the range at the time, meaning that she expected our range to be bigger.
Going from this, it starts off saying we are restricted to 100m. She's surprised at that fact. I believe it's the fact that it's so small. I believe she's indicating that few have such a small range. But Mami wasn't definite one way or another I agree so we can't say which was unusual, the distance of our range being short or far-reaching... I assume we can't say much about the melee users even though it likely they can throw their weapons at indefinite range, but lets look at a few other meguca with larger than 100m range."I've found my range seems to be restricted to a hundred meters out."
Mami gives you a surprised look, avoiding a protruding duct without even looking. "That's... unusual."
"It is?" you ask in surprise, shelving the thoughts of what you'll call the Kyousuke problem for now.
"Um... there are magical girls with a hundred meter range," she says. "Not too many, though."
"Huh," you say. "Oh hey, we're almost there." You can sense Homura and Madoka and Sayaka, on the far edges of your senses.
The ability to affect abilities and knowledge. Yes, very useful. Possibly increase learning speed as well?Admittedly, not one of our most needed upgrades, but useful, and more importantly, demonstrates our ability to enhance our own abilities, such as our ability to dewitch possible by enhancing our ability to enchant.
I... Liked that. Lets do it for real!So, um... ah... eh. Um. I don't know.
'This is a terrible idea,' thinks Sabrina, as she lies in the dark.
Lost in her thoughts, she tosses and turns, 'why am I even considering this, this horrid thing...' A nervous shudder shakes her suddenly.
Sabrina freezes. Remaining absolutely still, she slowly inhales and exhales air, her breathing gradually evening out. A few moments pass, until she hears -and feels- the gentle breathing of the one beside her.
'At least that confirms that,' she thinks, sighing in relief. 'Still, can't be too sure.'
Her voice comes out as barely a whisper, "Mami? You awake?"
A few seconds pass.
No answer.
Only hearing Mami's continuous even breaths, Sabrina gulps, as she slowly reaches out with her hand, an effort of will calling a white stone, visible even in the darkness, to float gently into her hand.
'Why am I doing this?' She asks herself as she contemplates her Soul Gem. A moment later, she pulls the Gem close to her mouth and closes her eyes, 'no turning back'.
Her lips tremble. They move shakily, but no sound come from them.
She suddenly takes in air, and a wisp of other -magic- accompanies her hurried whisper, "hello-Dedolere-how-are-you-doing".
Sabrina's eyes shut firm, the darkness hiding her grimace, her teeth clenched in expectation of pain.
A few seconds later, she exhales a shaky breath.
'Nothing after all,' she thinks. Her lips twitch, and she hastily covers her mouth, trying to contain a giggle. She barely succeeds, 'can't wake up Mami,' she takes a deep breath and lets it go, slowly.
Once calm, she looks at the Soul Gem, 'I was just being silly', she reprimands herself as she bids a trace of Grief to lift the Gem-
"Hel... lo."
Sabrina chucks the Gem away quick as she can.
Clatter.
Sabrina's heart thunders in her chest as her wide eyes fixate on the Gem, rolling on the floor until it gently hits the wall opposite the bed.
But nothing happens.
Her thoughts run a mile an hour, instincts forcing her to stay put, worry yelling at her to get up and do something, sense berating her for doing something stupid.
"Hm...?" A soft noise breaks the silence, "Sabrina? Something wrong?" Mami's sleepy, honeyed voice startles Sabrina out of her stupor.
Slowly, Sabrina's head turns until she can look at Mami's eyes, shining oh so slightly in the darkness; she looks back up at the Gem, inert on the floor; then back down at her friend.
"No." She whispers. "Nothing wrong," she mutters, lying back down after realizing her half seated position, and turning to pull Mami into a hug.
She waits for a minute, thinking what to say for waking Mami up for no reason -that she'd explain- but no further questions came from the blonde.
Belatedly, Sabrina notices Mami's breathing evened out, pushing slightly at her every couple of seconds, and realizes Mami already fell back sleep.
Sighing in relief once more, Sabrina cautiously reaches out to her Soul Gem with her senses, noticing nothing wrong with it, except perhaps a little more Grief than there was a few minutes prior.
A thought is spared towards willing the Gem back in its place on the bedside table, before quickly being discarded.
Without further deliberation, Sabrina closes her eyes.
Nothing disturbs her sleep that night.
I blame FeepingCreature for this one.
FThat is exactly what would happen.
Let's do it again, see if we can strike up a conversation.
(It turns out Dedolere -cease to grieve- in its non-hatched, contained form, is a fantastic therapist)That is exactly what would happen.
Let's do it again, see if we can strike up a conversation.
Sooo... We need to get her/us to talk to Mami then? Great that's very useful!(It turns out Dedolere -cease to grieve- in it's non-hatched, contained form, is a fantastic therapist)
I think she's surprised at the fact we have a limit range at all.Going from this, it starts off saying we are restricted to 100m. She's surprised at that fact. I believe it's the fact that it's so small.
Something to note, when we snatched her Gem, she teleported 200m out and collapsed.
Sooo... We need to get her/us to talk to Mami then? Great that's very useful!
1. Undirected SCIENCE is worse than useless since it combines not making progress on our goals with sacrificing anything else we might do (social is how we'll win PMAS not gimmicks) and yes I consider talking to Kyouko a better use of time than what we ended up doing and risking it blowing up n our faces when we get sloppy. Mostly I'm utterly sick of pointless SCIENCE that gives small returns on time invested while actually relevant actions get sidelined for update after update of "you flail like an idiot and get a few cute toys out of it". Kicking , Oriko and Homura aren't traditional megucas in terms of "distance" of their power (Oriko's is technically not distance based at all and Homuras is centered on herself)Man this thread has really moved, forgive me if my post seems dated or some points may have been partially/fully answered already. 1.7k words admittedly a lot of it is quotes, but wow..
Actually, if memory serves, all grief in the area of antimagic, we lose control over. It is basically as if the grief left our 100m area of control, and it does it's 'try to condense into something and then evaporate' thing.
Yeah, I've advocated that the compressed grief ring we wear constantly--since we've used it to confirm no damage occurs from it and it hasn't--be changed to something else we wear that is functional and helps us. Something witchy. Heck we have another 8 fingers we can use if a grief object can only embody one concept at a time (One as space for our Meguca ring, and counting our current ring). Not only does it get others used to witchy grief, we get benefits. Now if we can somehow make it permanent. Or maybe we can make something that keeps itself and nearby grief objects actualized, small range of 1-2m.. would be one ring dedicated to that, with more rings on our friends doing things. Man we need a good Scientific science time soon, not the usual random science and then give up with one failure thing we do.
I agree many small attempts spread across updates while doing things is something we can start doing soon/when we can. And it's not like we are looking to do combat related SCIENCE only as some might think/say. We are focusing on other solutions as well. Like how our power actually works. The Grief/Witch conceptual thing is HUGE.
Eventually when ready for a timestop science section, We'd have 'time' for SCIENCE during a timestop. Just have to convince Homura, heck she can take nice long full 8+ hours of sleep and have a few meals or something we take our time. Some Oriko capture adventure levels of time. Wellll, maybe a little less time than that. This is for when a longer science sections would actually be useful, and wouldn't take up time for something else if needed.
Time wasted wouldn't be an issue in a Timestop with just Homura. No Mami to get uncomfortable in the silence. The main thing will be having Homura comfortable to be with us for such an extended period of time. Maybe she can be off doing her own testing of her powers? Bit harder w/o ribbonhax Mami, but I think it's worthwhile to not bring her due to her issues with timestop. Though of course if she could handle it, it would be great to give her time to do her own things/teach us. Perhaps our grief orchestra could simulate city life sounds as suggested once?
It's not random and unhelpful... This situation might have been resolved already if we knew of our own capabilities now. Maybe not, but it would have already had most of our current questions answered.
Um, didn't Mami say such a low range was not normal? Paraphrased mangled quote "...A few have a range of 100m, but that's unusual."
Firn is a scientist as well I agree. I'm sure his mind goes more along the lines of real scientific procedure then the "Add SCIENCE and it instantly works if possible" method that has been followed.
Wasn't this time spent when everyone was in School and we were left to do nothing but kick our heels basicly? I mean there were some things we could do I suppose, like talk to Kyokou, or the Telekinetic/Illusion girls. Which we did do. Don't need to be constantly with them clingy. I think we were using our time wisely.
This is a very valid thing to try. I mean we DID create a close combat harness/suit thing. It made us KNOW how to fight and gave us the skills etc. That's a mental effect right there. Accelerated Learning, Accelerated Perception or Accelerated Thought are just a few ways this could possibly work. Now the implanted combat skills faded, but things we learned, but faster with a grief tool... I hesitate to say they would fade.
Exactly, It hasn't even been a full 24 hours since the first test, let alone the second barrier we created with Mami.
A google doc perhaps or google spreadsheet?
Exactly, We made a Grief!Healing item, and a Grief!MagicBooster. The former was mostly ineffective at permanent healing, was the latter was moderately ineffective, but worked better. A Grief!HealingSkillBooster would presumbly have nothing to do with the actual healing, but our ability to actually heal. We would lose the knowledge like the combat booster, but the results of what we did should remain. And perhaps a Grief!HealingSkillLearningAccelerator might do a more permanent gain in skill? Meh.
I agree Sereg, here's the story quote.
Going from this, it starts off saying we are restricted to 100m. She's surprised at that fact. I believe it's the fact that it's so small. I believe she's indicating that few have such a small range. But Mami wasn't definite one way or another I agree so we can't say which was unusual, the distance of our range being short or far-reaching... I assume we can't say much about the melee users even though it likely they can throw their weapons at indefinite range, but lets look at a few other meguca with larger than 100m range.
I think it's safe to say it's odd to have a non melee power limited to a small area of effect usually. Not implausible, but rare.
- Ramiel - Fuck off beams, huge range
- Mami - Muskets balls that just don't stop, and immense ribbon range, and Rebellion.
- Homura - Timestops everything everywhere everywhen
- Oriko - Precogs most of japan, or the nearby cities at least.
- Akiko - Can cause rain storms to cover a city with time, Likely.
- Sakura - City to city range teleportation at minimum.
- Moe - Shadow jumping across skyscrapers at Ramiel range at least.
- Aki - Creates clones that can travel large distances from her.
- Kimiko - Lighting attacks at 'extreme' range.
The ability to affect abilities and knowledge. Yes, very useful. Possibly increase learning speed as well?
This post kinda got away from me, a bit stream of consciousnessy... Do try when replying not to ignore one point in favor of another you can shoot down easily. Bit sciency convo heavy, but that is pretty much the last 8 pages worth of 'discussion' as well.
'Smooth, Sabrina, why didn't you tell her it was an angel, or a fairy, or something nice that took residence in your Soul and wanted to help? Nooo... you had yo go and say it was a Witch, fat lot of good it does you to think your answer for twenty hours if you're gonna do that.'"OH MY GOD SABRINA WHY IS THERE A WITCH IN YOUR GEM HOLY SHIT" "It's a side effect of my wish. She's friendly and loans me free grief!" "Oh...that...that makes sense. Yes it does! Totally...." Mami's repression intensifies.
Hope it's not too expensive and good to hear you're alright.Good news - Car is in for repairs, and no one was hurt! (the other car wasn't even damaged...)
Bad News -.... you people added 7 pages while I was getting that dealt with.
O. O
Ah, true. I guess it's unlimited range in a way (based on amount of magic needed) as long as the Gem remains with the teleportation effect/body. HehSomething to note, when we snatched her Gem, she teleported 200m out and collapsed.
Glad to hear DB! Yeah I've mostly kinda sorta stayed away for a day or two since it's been getting circular in here with everyone having a discussion and Ugo going ANTI SCIEEEENNNCCEEEE on everything and everywhere. *Cough*Good news - Car is in for repairs, and no one was hurt! (the other car wasn't even damaged...)
Bad News -.... you people added 7 pages while I was getting that dealt with.
O. O