Point is at the end of the day that we just won't have time for science for the foreseeable future. We've got so much shit to do that any hour we spend on science probably should have been spent trying to keep Sayaka and Ono alive, or talking to Kyoko, or Homura, or doing any number of things that need our attention more urgently.
 
But again, he does have a fair point: it's very unlikely we can use enchantment bracelets to get permanent benefits. I mean, from a gameplay perspective, a GM would probably not allow that. Anyway, that kind of stuff is way down on the list of things to try, seeing as how it's frankly unlikely to work.
I don't see how you can rule out non-broken ways of implementing permanent benefits. We have some sharp time limits.

Important observation: we need to make this metaphorical list into an actual, updated list. Any suggestions on what kind of list and how to implement it?
 
I don't see how you can rule out non-broken ways of implementing permanent benefits. We have some sharp time limits.

Important observation: we need to make this metaphorical list into an actual, updated list. Any suggestions on what kind of list and how to implement it?
I don't think the permanent benefits will be very likely to work in the first place, they're not what we need right now (we're trying to keep all these crazy teenagers alive, not be the best scientist that ever was), and would take valuable time that could be spent on other stuff.
 
I don't think the permanent benefits will be very likely to work in the first place, they're not what we need right now (we're trying to keep all these crazy teenagers alive, not be the best scientist that ever was), and would take valuable time that could be spent on other stuff.
Look, I'm not saying this as concretely as I ought to, and part of that is missing background on my part. What's our endgame? What's our working win condition? What's our current high-level strategy to achieve it? Give me that, and I'll be able to spell out what I'm suggesting, and it's definitely not "be the best scientist".

Speaking for myself, I intend to determine where science should be used to facilitate or modify our strategy, and then make and update a ranking of tests, developments and science objectives by urgency, so that whenever we have a spare minute we can just pop the most important thing we need to find out off the top of the list of tests, and it will contribute to straightforward objectives that fit with our strategy. To exemplify what I'm talking about, right now the top of that list would be completely composed of the top few most practical things to try for stabilizing Oriko.
 
Look, I'm not saying this as concretely as I ought to, and part of that is missing background on my part. What's our endgame? What's our working win condition? What's our current high-level strategy to achieve it? Give me that, and I'll be able to spell out what I'm suggesting, and it's definitely not "be the best scientist".

Speaking for myself, I intend to determine where science should be used to facilitate or modify our strategy, and then make and update a ranking of tests, developments and science objectives by urgency, so that whenever we have a spare minute we can just pop the most important thing we need to find out off the top of the list of tests, and it will contribute to straightforward objectives that fit with our strategy. To exemplify what I'm talking about, right now the top of that list would be completely composed of the top few most practical things to try for stabilizing Oriko.
I'm not going to ask why you were suggesting policy if you didn't know our endgame...

Dewitching is our top priority. Spreading a better system than current canon Grief seed dependence and infighting for gucas. Building social links. None of that involves your ideas for random science like the boosters of uselessness.

And yes, stabilizing Oriko takes priority over all that.
 
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I'm not going to ask why you were suggesting policy if you didn't know our endgame...
Well, I'll answer anyway. I was suggesting a way to stop wasting so much time on science. Once I noticed I had started talking about more than that, it belatedly occurred to me to ask the question I asked.
Dewitching is our top priority. Spreading a better system than current canon Grief seed dependence and infighting for gucas. Building social links.
So, it looks like the goal is to be the Adfligo Systema. Obvious in hindsight. Thanks.

One question: are we worried about WPN? Is there any reason to believe she might not be grief-rendable?
 
Well, I'll answer anyway. I was suggesting a way to stop wasting so much time on science. Once I noticed I had started talking about more than that, it belatedly occurred to me to ask the question I asked.

So, it looks like the goal is to be the Adfligo Systema. Obvious in hindsight. Thanks.

One question: are we worried about WPN? Is there any reason to believe she might not be grief-rendable?
You're welcome, moderately, and no based on available evidence. Given that Walpy was stated to be less of an issue than what follows afterwards (Feathers) and that the precog felt we could kill her...

Also, all this is in the story posts...
 
One question: are we worried about WPN? Is there any reason to believe she might not be grief-rendable?
We've talked about WPN before. Oriko said she was barely a footnote, and even without grief rend, which we have no reason not to believe won't work, we have a power setup with our team that will end her. Our bigger focus is the feathers and just keeping the people we like alive.
 
Ok, I feel obliged to contribute an analogy on the creation of grief constructs, and what we can reasonably expect them to do.

Let's say we command the grief to create a book that contains all the secrets of grief. ...
I could complete this analogy, but I have just decided that I want everyone else to complet the thought. So:

When you open up this tome of knowledge, what does Sabrina find?

Again, I've been wanting to try something like this for a while.

Range is probably an inherent limitation seeing as we're already better than the norm as far as that goes and nothing we've tried has made the slightest difference on it. I don't think there's anything in general worth dedicating an update to that we can test right now.

No, we aren't. Mami never said we were better than the norm. She said we were different from the norm. Firn said that if we got actual reality warping, it'd only have had a range of 5 meters. So, our range is based on the power of our abilities, so, we're probably worse than the norm, which is supported by how in Sendai, we were outranged.

We...kind of do know what we need to do for dewitching. Our avenues of attack there are a)the Soul Gem/Seed itself, b)communicating with the soul, c)enchantment.

No. We hope that one of these will work, but don't know if any of them will work. We don't even know how to try a single one of these. We understand far too little.

And again, to me it's more of a metagame thing. Us having Mitakihara level range would be too powerful.

Mitakihara range will be barely an improvement. Our goal is utterly impossible without universal range. There are Incubators scattered throughout the Universe. If one of them can forge a contract outside our range, we have failed.

A pain-free ring is not even a temporary solution. It blocks pain; not the ongoing damage.

By this argument, painkillers are useless. If Oriko isn't feeling pain, she can think clearly, which means she can come up with ideas for a real solution. So yes, pain-blocking is very helpful. And refusing to do it is unethical.

@Muramasa
Such as the fact lack of pain doesn't change that her soul's still grinding itself to pieces?

This is a guess. We don't know that this is happening.


Even then, with even more limited science time, I don't see any reason to put other tests above dewitching and other vital problems on the research list.

Non-science issues > Dewitching > any other science.

Of course dewitching is more important. But we have no idea how to do it. So let's, say, create a grief book that'll tell us how.

Except that making even one artifact doesn't happen quickly. The noteworthy element of the barrier experiment wasn't that it took half an hour (which is slightly longer than other creations), but that it locked our mind down entirely during it.

That happened with barriers and barriers alone.

Range extension has already succeeded. We were able to create a Barrier larger than 100 meters. That we then ran, screaming, from our most promising scientific result is not particularly relevant to the question of whether it works.

... I really need to write that Barriers FAQ one of these days.

No. Barriers reduce our range from 100 meters to zero. Because absolutely nothing that is outside our range is inside our barrier. Even if you want extra space, Mami has admitted to being able to do the same trick with enchantment. We've seen Ono do it. There's nothing impressive about that trick and it accomplishes nothing we can't do with a method that doesn't cause us to go into a state where someone can stare into our eyes while they slowly saw our head off and there's zilch we can do about it. Barriers make us less powerful. They don't increase our power in any way whatsoever.

Her magic is inverted. Her magic is coming from her soul and she was basically dying when we showed up and still is even if we blocked the pain. I do not see this as reason to consider her safe.

Not safe is not the same thing as dying. For all we know, the pain is the only negative consequence (not saying we should assume that, but it's possible)

That is exactly what you are suggesting by wanting to do that enchantment practice. You want to do an approach that's guaranteed to fail.

Ugo, you've claimed things were guaranteed to fail/succeed and been proven incorrect later. Please stop making assumptions. Firn has repeatedly indicated we're more powerful than we think we are and that we need everything we can get.


Because it's fairly basic common sense that we won't be able to pass on what amounts to magical reality altering-induced skill to someone else. Even assuming grief bullshit to be good at enchantment works- and that's a major if- it'd be less magically being good at it and more grief-reality warping in our general vicinity.

I'd suggest reading the updates where we did science if you're not sure about what's being suggested.

Some of our science experiments have worked perfectly well and better than you expected, thank you.

Some power experiments are good, but please don't forget: the plot was set before our powers were. We can't win with our powers alone, and it's dangerous to think that way.

The scale of our powers was decided beforehand. If we woshed for cake, we'd have the most awesome cake powers imaginable. Turning witches into cake. Creating cakes that are full of magical potions that give the eater superpowers. MECAKE CURRANT DEZILLICIOUS LASPONGE! Gun shaped cakes that shoot chocolate chip bullets. etc.




I'm still not convinced that that's what happened. We don't know if our barrier was related to that craziness or not. We should have done more testing before closing off a potentially useful area of research.

Again, it didn't do a thing that wasn't already possible without using a method that would mean someone could kill Mami right in front of us while we couldn't stop them.
 
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so we then tried something that would've only boost our magic, so all the new flesh would've be created the 'normal' magical way, with not Grief.

A witchy boost to our healing skill somehow infects the results with grief, making it impermanent.
Um, that isn't actually what happened. We made the Rod, but we didn't actually try to boost our own healing powers with a grief item, we just made a grief!healing item to do it for us.

In other words, healing skillbooster is still on the list.

Also, has anybody else noticed that Ugolino is probably a(n) master vampire unfun person? I mean, he has blue hair, is quite pale, sucks the blood fun out of people robots with his terrible fangs by saying that they're bad things, and is wildly against going out into the sun or into churches any sort of new thing without regard for how little time we'd need to spend on it.

Yup.
 
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Again, I've been wanting to try something like this for a while.



No, we aren't. Mami never said we were better than the norm. She said we were different from the norm. Firn said that if we got actual reality warping, it'd only have had a range of 5 meters. So, our range is based on the power of our abilities, so, we're probably worse than the norm, which is supported by how in Sendai, we were outranged.



No. We hope that one of these will work, but don't know if any of them will work. We don't even know how to try a single one of these. We understand far too little.



Mitakihara range will be barely an improvement. Our goal is utterly impossible without universal range. There are Incubators scattered throughout the Universe. If one of them can forge a contract outside our range, we have failed.



By this argument, painkillers are useless. If Oriko isn't feeling pain, she can think clearly, which means she can come up with ideas for a real solution. So yes, pain-blocking is very helpful. And refusing to do it is unethical.



This is a guess. We don't know that this is happening.




Of course dewitching is more important. But we have no idea how to do it. So let's, say, create a grief book that'll tell us how.



That happened with barriers and barriers alone.



No. Barriers reduce our range from 100 meters to zero. Because absolutely nothing that is outside our range is inside our barrier. Even if you want extra space, Mami has admitted to being able to do the same trick with enchantment. We've seen Ono do it. There's nothing impressive about that trick and it accomplishes nothing we can't do with a method that doesn't cause us to go into a state where someone can stare into our eyes while they slowly saw our head off and there's zilch we can do about it. Barriers make us less powerful. They don't increase our power in any way whatsoever.



Not safe is not the same thing as dying. For all we know, the pain is the only negative consequence (not saying we should assume that, but it's possible)



Ugo, you've claimed things were guaranteed to fail/succeed and been proven incorrect later. Please stop making assumptions. Firn has repeatedly indicated we're more powerful than we think we are and that we need everything we can get.




Some of our science experiments have worked perfectly well and better than you expected, thank you.



The scale of our powers was decided beforehand. If we woshed for cake, we'd have the most awesome cake powers imaginable. Turning witches into cake. Creating cakes that are full of magical potions that give the eater superpowers. MECAKE CURRANT DEZILLICIOUS LASPONGE! Gun shaped cakes that shoot chocolate chip bullets. etc.






Again, it didn't do a thing that wasn't already possible without using a method that would mean someone could kill Mami right in front of us while we couldn't stop them.
1. 100 meters is already considered an outlier, implied to be much better when it came up. If you disagree and have the quote where it was talked about, feel free to link it. Sendai was against a ramiel light specialist and we've never seen that kind of range from anyone else.

...Those three are our current possible viable avenues, and we actually do have possible approaches (soul pinging, enchantment, observing grief seed structures further)

Her soul's warping in on itself. I think that's very likely what's happening.

Grief book is downright nonsensical since it's less an approach to magic use and more "PLEASE GIVE US THE ANSWER FIRN".

Wrong. We have discount reality warping but it's not actually reality warping and has very concrete limitations. It doesn't make blatantly stupid attempts to game the system any less stupid.

And on the whole, they've been a bad joke and waste of precious time. We've gotten some gimmicks out of them, but not much else.

Any science ideas that aren't directly related to current emergencies or endgame goals are likely to get absolutely nothing of value back. I don't think a few shiny toys here and there makes any difference whatsoever to our actual ability. Like, seriously, a melee harness is worth screwing up repeatedly and Sayaka contracting? Anything would've been a better use of time than half of our science sessions- even visiting Nagisa or something.

while true we do need to find a way to do so. Doing science is one of them. Though Yes we do need to do so in a safe manner and when we have time.
Which is why the only science that matters in the slightest and is worth putting above literally anything else we could be doing is a)researching dewitching, b)current emergencies.

Anything else to be with SCIENCE is somewhere below "having tea with Mami and friends" in terms of actual likelihood of making a positive impact on the quest.
 
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1. 100 meters is already considered an outlier, implied to be much better. Sendai was against a ramiel light specialist.
We don't actually have confirmation of our range being exceptionally good, only that's odd. Just saying. :V

Oh, or confirmation of an implication either. Derp. :V

Derp.
 
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1. 100 meters is already considered an outlier, implied to be much better. Sendai was against a ramiel light specialist.

No, it was not implied to be much better. The shadow specialist also out ranged us and so did the teleporter and the clone. Mami's reaction implied that she was surprised our range was so small after she had previously seen us send grief to the end of our range without reacting to the range at the time, meaning that she expected our range to be bigger.

...Those three are our current possible viable avenues, and we actually do have possible approaches (soul pinging, enchantment, observing grief seed structures further)

Those aren't steps. They're goals. We don't know how to do those safely.

Her soul's warping in on itself. I think that's very likely what's happening.

Maybe. My impression was that it was just her magic.

Grief book is downright nonsensical since it's less an approach to magic use and more "PLEASE GIVE US THE ANSWER FIRN".

We can create grief objects that do things we don't understand. It's attempting divination, which is a power that canonically exists in the setting (Oriko).

Wrong. We have discount reality warping but it's not actually reality warping and has very concrete limitations. It doesn't make blatantly stupid attempts to game the system any less stupid.

Again, Firn has indicated that we have the ability to do many of the things we've tried if we go about it the right way and that we are much more powerful than we think we are and need that power. Are you forgetting the end game? We're trying to dewitch ever witch ever and become the caretaker of every magical girl in the Universe while stopping the utterly ridiculous Incubator Empire. We need everything we can get.

And on the whole, they've been a bad joke and waste of precious time. We've gotten some gimmicks out of them, but not much else.

We've gotten Mami to laugh. We've made her happy. So, no. (We also got a way to travel to Sendai, which was important) That's just a couple of things.

Any science ideas that aren't directly related to current emergencies or endgame goals are likely to get absolutely nothing of value back.

You don't think the music Mami likes listening to is of value?

I don't think a few shiny toys here and there makes any difference whatsoever to our actual ability. Like, seriously, a melee harness is worth screwing up repeatedly and Sayaka contracting?


Admittedly, not one of our most needed upgrades, but useful, and more importantly, demonstrates our ability to enhance our own abilities, such as our ability to dewitch possible by enhancing our ability to enchant.


Which is why the only science that matters in the slightest and is worth putting above literally anything else we could be doing is a)researching dewitching, b)current emergencies.

Anything else to be with SCIENCE is somewhere below "having tea with Mami and friends" in terms of actual likelihood of making a positive impact on the quest.

Ugo, explain to me how, if we invented dewitching today, we could save every magical girl in the universe with nothing but our current abilities and dewitching. If you can do that to my satisfaction, I will agree that other science should be avoided.
 
No, it was not implied to be much better. The shadow specialist also out ranged us and so did the teleporter and the clone. Mami's reaction implied that she was surprised our range was so small after she had previously seen us send grief to the end of our range without reacting to the range at the time, meaning that she expected our range to be bigger.



Those aren't steps. They're goals. We don't know how to do those safely.



Maybe. My impression was that it was just her magic.



We can create grief objects that do things we don't understand. It's attempting divination, which is a power that canonically exists in the setting (Oriko).



Again, Firn has indicated that we have the ability to do many of the things we've tried if we go about it the right way and that we are much more powerful than we think we are and need that power. Are you forgetting the end game? We're trying to dewitch ever witch ever and become the caretaker of every magical girl in the Universe while stopping the utterly ridiculous Incubator Empire. We need everything we can get.



We've gotten Mami to laugh. We've made her happy. So, no. (We also got a way to travel to Sendai, which was important) That's just a couple of things.



You don't think the music Mami likes listening to is of value?




Admittedly, not one of our most needed upgrades, but useful, and more importantly, demonstrates our ability to enhance our own abilities, such as our ability to dewitch possible by enhancing our ability to enchant.




Ugo, explain to me how, if we invented dewitching today, we could save every magical girl in the universe with nothing but our current abilities and dewitching. If you can do that to my satisfaction, I will agree that other science should be avoided.

"I've found my range seems to be restricted to a hundred meters out."

Mami gives you a surprised look, avoiding a protruding duct without even looking. "That's... unusual."

"It is?" you ask in surprise, shelving the thoughts of what you'll call the Kyousuke problem for now.

"Um... there are magical girls with a hundred meter range," she says. "Not too many, though."
Given how most megucas we've seen in canon and PMAS have less than a hundred meters, it's pretty clear what Mami means there.

....Really? Those are pretty straightforward steps that we've tried in-story already, even.

Her magic is her soul. Kind of the point of PMMM.

And that'll go about as well as trying to timestop. ie: It won't work.

Firn has indicated that our power has limits. Far out limits but still limits. We are not going to be able to mash the win button because we are not, in fact, a goddess.

Mami laughing is a low bar to set for miracles- and is about the only positive thing to ACCIDENTALLY come out of what we've done. If it's not directly connected to our goals, it isn't worth putting time into researching because there are better ways to make Mami actually happy rather than random science.

Not as helpful as direct dewitching research and not an efficient use of time. Also, by that argument we should have just skipped the middleman and gone straight for enchantment harnesses.

Once we have dewitching, we can save every single magical girl regardless of when we do it since all we'd need is a grief seeed. Seriously, everything else is irrelevant until we achieve that goal. Nothing we ever do will matter if we can't fix the Witch problem since when that happens Mami breaks every guca we know breaks and the whole thing comes tumbling down, never midn that it means we haven't actually changed anything if we don't do that. The guca system is messy and brutal and does need fixing- which involves social and free cleansing as the most important answer, not bullshit science- but it's the Witchout at the end that's the real threat.
 
I think we should not assume that our power is balanced for difficulty of any given situation. If you look at the way we take apart witches, it's pretty clear that we frequently encounter situations in which we are plainly overpowered.

If this quest was following any kind of author-enforced "difficulty curve", aside from the canon development, we should probably have encountered boss witches by now.

So it's not at all implausible on the face of it for SCIENCE! to allow us to cheat our way around local problems; the only constraint is that we can't insta-solve the plot as a whole. Science is systemized cheating, after all.

Unrelatedly: if we tag suggestions with [science], can vote tally tools do stuff like "list all [science] votes between the last experiment post and now"? Then when it comes up, we can refer to that as our mental notepad and order it by time-taken to get the most experiments in.
 
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I think we should not assume that our power is balanced for difficulty of any given situation. If you look at the way we take apart witches, it's pretty clear that we frequently encounter situations in which we are plainly overpowered.

If this quest was following any kind of "difficulty curve", we should have encountered boss witches by now.

So it's not at all implausible on the face of it for SCIENCE! to allow us to cheat our way around local problems; the only constraint is that we can't insta-solve the plot as a whole. Science is systemized cheating, after all.

Unrelatedly: if we tag suggestions with [science], can vote tally tools do stuff like "list all [science] votes between the last experiment post and now"?
SCIENCE is going to solve some of the quest's problems. That is the entire point of researching dewitching, yes. What is ludicrous is expecting the GM to hand answers from on high through a "grief book" since that isn't even an approach so much as "I don't want to do anything, I just want all of my problems to go away".

Also, the Witches and combat aren't Sabrina's challenge- social is.

What's completely toxic is putting SCIENCE sessions on a pedestal the way we were doing and trying to do anything and everything that came to mind rather than keeping it to a few, very specific problems and goals. Oriko's gem qualifies. So does dewitching. Anything else is largely redundant right now.
 
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Ugo, explain to me how, if we invented dewitching today, we could save every magical girl in the universe with nothing but our current abilities and dewitching. If you can do that to my satisfaction, I will agree that other science should be avoided.
That's far enough beyond the scope of the quest as to have no bearing on current research priorities. Frankly, I think dewitching also falls under this category.
 
I don't disagree about the Grief book; that was silly. I suspect our power pulls samples from nearby configuration space or some suchlike - "a working phaser" is a thing with not-that-many free variables, and aliens exist so they've probably researched one; our tricorder had writing we could not read, so it seems plausible that it did get pulled from "somewhere". In comparison, a "Book of Answers" is almost entirely de-novo; no such thing exists in any reality in range.

[science] Summon a tricorder, copy down the symbols. Hide the paper, do something else so you forget. Look at the tricorder again, copy down the symbols again. If they're consistent, it's a real writing system. If they're inconsistent, it's just dream-logic (you can't read in dreams).

If this is true, though, there's a lot to be said for generalized "understand the function and limits of our powers" blue-sky science when there's time, since better understanding of how magic works will probably increase the range of what magical items we can summon, since our power doesn't need to fill in the blanks by itself anymore. Like (conjecture) Mami having experience with how muskets work probably helps her with creating them as quickly as she does.
 
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Given how most megucas we've seen in canon and PMAS have less than a hundred meters, it's pretty clear what Mami means there.
Not... really? That doesn't actually say that our range is good, just odd, and I got the impression in the Meguca brawl that the environmental control meguca had very, very large ranges compared to us.
 
Given how most megucas we've seen in canon and PMAS have less than a hundred meters, it's pretty clear what Mami means there.

No. We've never seen a single meguca anywhere that has even encountered a range limit. For all we know Sayaka can tag things she throws her swords at from a kilometer away. The quote just convinces me more. She said it was unusual we were restricted to 100 meters.And again, she saw us handle grief from 100 meters away before, so she could not have been surprised if it was from our range being big.

....Really? Those are pretty straightforward steps that we've tried in-story already, even.
Enchantment has always failed as has pinging a witch. We don't understand our attempts to understand grief seeds.

Her magic is her soul. Kind of the point of PMMM.
No. Her soul gem is her soul. Her magic is her emotions.

And that'll go about as well as trying to timestop. ie: It won't work.

I have no idea what you're reffering to and am unconvinced we can't copy Homura's timestop,

Firn has indicated that our power has limits. Far out limits but still limits. We are not going to be able to mash the win button because we are not, in fact, a goddess.

Limits that are a lot further out than we first thought. So, we need to find out what those limits are.

Mami laughing is a low bar to set for miracles- and is about the only positive thing to ACCIDENTALLY come out of what we've done. If it's not directly connected to our goals, it isn't worth putting time into researching because there are better ways to make Mami actually happy rather than random science.

Again, travel that got us to stop the problems at Sendai.

Not as helpful as direct dewitching research and not an efficient use of time. Also, by that argument we should have just skipped the middleman and gone straight for enchantment harnesses.

We should have but hadn't thought of it yet. The combat harness gave us the idea. Which, in itself, is a positive. Stiffling creativity prevents us from seeing solutions. Again, we barely know where to start with dewitching.

Once we have dewitching, we can save every single magical girl regardless of when we do it since all we'd need is a grief seeed.

No, we can't, because we're stuck on this planet, where almost every single grief seed is not located.

Seriously, everything else is irrelevant until we achieve that goal.

Some more important goals:

1. Preventing all future contracts

2. Removing all Incubator influence from the planet

3. Preventing meguca from destroying each others soul gems

4. Preventing Kyuubey from arranging our deaths.

That's just off the top of my head.


Nothing we ever do will matter if we can't fix the Witch problem since when that happens Mami breaks every guca we know breaks and the whole thing comes tumbling down, never midn that it means we haven't actually changed anything if we don't do that. The guca system is messy and brutal and does need fixing- which involves social and free cleansing as the most important answer, not bullshit science- but it's the Witchout at the end that's the real threat.

False. If we make it so that grief accumulation is utterly impossible under any circumstance, this is not true and is in fact a bigger achievement.

I think we should not assume that our power is balanced for difficulty of any given situation. If you look at the way we take apart witches, it's pretty clear that we frequently encounter situations in which we are plainly overpowered.

Again, you're looking at this from too small a viewpoint. Our goal is to break the system. Killing a witch doesn't even move us vaguely in that direction, so our ability to destroy them is irrelevant. Our ability to protect a Universal population from a Universal threat is (at which we're utterly useless right now)

So it's not at all implausible on the face of it for SCIENCE! to allow us to cheat our way around local problems; the only constraint is that we can't insta-solve the plot as a whole. Science is systemized cheating, after all.

Cheat? It's the only thing that makes our goals achievable at all.


SCIENCE is going to solve some of the quest's problems. That is the entire point of researching dewitching, yes. What is ludicrous is expecting the GM to hand answers from on high through a "grief book" since that isn't even an approach so much as "I don't want to do anything, I just want all of my problems to go away".

Divination is a technique used in many games completely legitimately. This is no different.

Also, the Witches and combat aren't Sabrina's challenge- social is.

Social is her current challenge, because the real challenge is so daunting there's no point in even trying yet. The real challenge is the Incubators.



That's far enough beyond the scope of the quest as to have no bearing on current research priorities. Frankly, I think dewitching also falls under this category.

No. If this quest finishes without every single meguca in the entire Universe under our protection, Sabrina has experienced utter, complete and total failure. As the system still exists. It's not broken. Madokami did infinitely better than that, so the quest will have ended with us being morally in the wrong for stopping Madoka from contracting. Anything less than saving the entire Universe is devastating failure.

I don't disagree about the Grief book; that was silly. I suspect our power pulls samples from nearby configuration space or some suchlike - "a working phaser" is a thing with not-that-many free variables, and aliens exist so they've probably researched one; our tricorder had writing we could not read, so it seems plausible that it did get pulled from "somewhere". In comparison, a "Book of Answers" is almost entirely de-novo; no such thing exists in any reality in range.

Of course it does. Do you really think no meguca has ever written down anything about her experiences?
 
If our power is capable of the Elder Scrolls powerup loop and time travel, we're still infinitely weaker than Madokami. Frankly, I see no reason for precognition or clairvoyance to be impossible, and the odd insistence that it's impossible to improve our power range or utility with our power is the same as admitting failure right now.

If one in a million girls contracts, then we'd need to dewitch a girl a week just to keep up with birth rates on Earth, not including the backlog of existing magical girls and witches, the fact that witches multiply through familiars, or that Earth isn't the only planet. If we want to fix past witches, since Madoka is the baseline, that's an extra 54 thousand witches on Earth alone. And that's still not adfigo systema!
 
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Citation on this? I do not remember her using the word "restricted".
It was us that used the word restricted. She did not correct.

"I've found my range seems to be restricted to a hundred meters out."

Mami gives you a surprised look, avoiding a protruding duct without even looking. "That's... unusual."
Remember again that Mami had previously seen us handle grief from 100 meters away without any surprise at all.
 
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