Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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Random Sabrina
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I think Ono is coherent enough to listen, but is fixating on the idea that we must not be here. In order for her to listen, we need to open ourselves to that?
Muramasa
Best Girl
We're already here. Weather we leave or stay, that damage has been done. Then perhaps we need to get her fixated on something else?
We backed Ono Megane into a corner, both physically and emotionally. That is a very precarious position:
Just continuing to stay in the room and trying to talk to Ono will place additional pressure on her. Unless we back off or do something completely unexpected, there is a high chance that she will lash out. If that happens, one option would be to deal with the problem by tying her up in grief or ribbons and forcing her to listen. That would be the natural extension of our current course of action (i.e. breaking into her room, snooping through her things, cleansing her against her will, and forcing a meeting). A tied up Ono who is forced to listen to what we have to say might be suitably cowed and would listen to what we have to say.Sun Tzu said:
But perhaps we can do better:
[X] "OK, we'll leave."
[X] As you walk out the door: "We came here because you're on our team now, and we refuse to let you die. Come out when you're ready to talk."
[X] Ask to cleanse Homura.
[X] Wait for Ono to come out.
This doesn't leave Ono with any real choices (she's stuck in time-stop with us), but it does give her a little bit of physical space so that (hopefully) she doesn't lash out with violence.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
That sounds rather very difficult.
I feel Ono is not going to listen to anything that doesn't agree with her wanting us to leave."I can't do that" would get us more 'get out'.
If we can create a middle ground between what she wants and what we want... She needs us to leave? That possibility needs to remain open in order for her to listen to anything we have to say.
Maybe we need to accept the option that we can fail, and Ono can die tonight, if she chooses that path, deliberately or not. Otherwise, we'll steamroll over her feelings, and that just leads to only failure, or putting Ono in a cage.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I'm trying to 'not press the enemy at bay', but I'd rather ask if she wants us to leave, instead of just agreeing. That way, she needs to answer, talk with us, in order to get us to leave her room.
What Ono wanted from us, was for us to wait until tomorrow, to not have this talk tonight.
We wanted to have this talk and she denied us. That's one thing she's denying there.
Now, we've attacked her, pretty much, put ourselves in a somewhat aggresive position, and she on the defensive. Now she's denying us two things: To leave her space, and to not have this talk.
I think we can use this, right? Us backing off is something Ono would like, and in order to get that, she might be willing to part with her other 'demand'.
Generally, things have only gotten worse for Ono, if we count from the beginning, and until the end of the next round, but here a this point, there's a chance that things might go 'better', and we need to push that.
We can trade our position inside her room for a chance for her to meet us outside, and talk.
And yes, a chance, that might not work, but if we can't accept the idea we can lose, maybe we don't deserve to win. Yes, there's a lives on the line, but we can't steamroll over everybody.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
If steamrolling doesn't work, that's because you aren't doing it hard enough.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
If steamrolling doesn't work, that's because you aren't doing it hard enough.
We could just blatantly put in what tone we're going for the in the post. I remember that we used to do that a lot. Or use points instead of exact phrasing?
There's a good chance that she'll either just say no and tell us to get out again or just lie to get us out and hide in the room. And if we do end up leaving, she'll probably revert back to ice cold composed persona and be that much harder to reach which I think was one of the concerns.
And while none of us want to steamroll her, I'm starting to wonder if that's all there is to this.
I wonder if we're just afraid of confronting her. The situation is extremely uncomfortable and unpleasant, so we keep trying to put it off and avoid a hostile confrontation.
???
Ono made her feelings on the subject abundantly clear. By talking to us. We can either acquiesce to her demands or ignore them, but asking if she wants us to leave would be pointless.
We have no right to be in her room in the first place (apart from saving her life), so demanding "concessions" in return for leaving doesn't really make sense. We do need to talk to Ono so that she understands enough that she will not pointlessly put her own life (or that of others) at risk, but our staying/leaving is not a commodity to be traded. We could have chosen to cleanse Ono in timestop and come back tomorrow for a conversation, but instead we decided to force the conversation right now. We can force the conversation while still in Ono's room (which might require tying her up) or we can force the conversation by leaving the room and waiting her out, but this is not something that Ono really has a choice about.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I don't see that. There's a value to creating a back and forth communication; talking more, as long as we don't piss her off, helps... talk more, which is what we want.
Social doesn't always make sense. It doesn't have to make sense, it just needs to let people work together.
Ono needs to have a choice. I doubt she wished because she felt she had a lot of choices.
Of course we're afraid of confronting her. We're afraid she might break into little pieces if we do.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I almost feel like the best tactic is something like "Okay, we'll leave, but we needed to make sure you're safe." Cleanse gem, go to window as if to imply it's how we entered, and apologize for our behavior and how we've treated her. Tell her we'll wait on the rooftop for a bit if she wants to talk after she calms down. Tell her we'll come and wait every night, if we have to.
Muramasa
Best Girl
Ich. No. This is allowing for more than excessive stonewalling. Also I don't think we should be apologizing for trying to help her survive from her own ignorance.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
You can see all personal interactions as forms of coercion, if you want. I think this 'bargain' is a pretty common thing to do.
I think that's pretty much what boone and I are going for. Kind of?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
But we could apologize for intruding in her personal space.
Muramasa
Best Girl
We had our reasons and I don't think Megane is going to accept an apology at the moment. I'd rather do what we came here to do and apologize for the unpleasantness later when things have cooled off.
As of right now an apology has no real value.
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NO. No more delaying. We do not leave until we are confidant that she will not violently self destruct at some point in the next few hours. The only way we leave tonight is if Ono is on the same page or if she's in our pocket.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
You know, I'd be fine with a quick Ono check every twelve hours. At least for a few days.
EDIT: Oh! we're close to 2222! Nice number.
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- Location
- South Africa
I agree that if we don't make progress right now, we'll be going backwards, so we need to get through to her. The position we're in isn't stable and if she's allowed to stonewall us again, it'll be even harder to get through to her.
I do feel that we owe her an apology, necessary as we consider our actions, but some people don't react well to apologies that aren't delivered with ... appropriate dressing I guess. I know this from experience.
Right! Goals!
1. Get Ono to calm down
2. Get her to stop seeing us as a threat
3. Convince her that we know what we're talking about
4. Show her that we are only doing this due to it's seriousness and would normally respect her private life.
5. Convince Ono to talk to us
6. Convince Ono of the dangers of her current actions
7. Convince Ono that it may actually be pleasant and useful to spend time with us
I do feel that we owe her an apology, necessary as we consider our actions, but some people don't react well to apologies that aren't delivered with ... appropriate dressing I guess. I know this from experience.
Right! Goals!
1. Get Ono to calm down
2. Get her to stop seeing us as a threat
3. Convince her that we know what we're talking about
4. Show her that we are only doing this due to it's seriousness and would normally respect her private life.
5. Convince Ono to talk to us
6. Convince Ono of the dangers of her current actions
7. Convince Ono that it may actually be pleasant and useful to spend time with us
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Would backing of a few steps, giving her some physical space help? Mura's vote's got
Kind of difficult right now.
OK, now you're just being mean.
- Location
- South Africa
I aim high. I would've added more insane stuff, but I decided that that would require more meetings and for now, we jut need Ono to be willing to attend further meetings.Would backing of a few steps, giving her some physical space help? Mura's vote's got
Kind of difficult right now.
OK, now you're just being mean.
Anyway, I' currently voting for Mura as I agree with that point of preparing to leave as I think it helps with a few of our goals.
