- Location
- Hell
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
Hi and welcome back to another episode of "zamin over-analyses everything"
As you can see, Valleyhome's just going to keep repeating that "Study Stars" action over and over cause they've got nothing else to do. Which is good, cause having someone do it every turn helps us out a lot. Northshore (our new place) is learning to git gud at farming while the people in Sacred Forest have decided tosmoke weed study the herbs and berries that grow in the forest.
- Remember that pregnant lady from a few turns ago? Noxivah? I think we're seeing her daughter here, which is kinda cool.
- Her skin is "duskier" then the native kid's. Is that normal? Are the lowlanders naturally darker skinned compared to our people?
- And here we see Study Forest paying off. We're developing some nasty poisons and learning how to make them more potent
- Apparently, we've got enough Blackbirds to check on people's fields now instead of relying on the chiefs to report everything. Or is Jumtyyn just spending a lot of time here so he can hang out with his crush?
- Am I the only one who's amused that Noxivah turned out to be an over-protective mum? She went from being terrified of Blackbirds and Carrion Eaters to chasing them away from her daughter
- Looks like we have 3 conflict zones in our territory: the nomad raids to the north (I knew they'd be back someday!), the conflicts along the southern shores (... are we having Viking problems now?) and the lowlands (where it looks like the Highlanders and Thunder Horse are kicking the shit out of the Dead Priests)
- On the plus side, we've apparently done pretty well in dealing with the corruption. Having more ninjas helped a lot
- We've got Boat People raiding our southern shore border, which is a bit concerning. Pirates? Or did someone else develop a navy? We have a possible exploration mission to find out where they're coming from
- And we have new and improved bows as a side effect of Maining Black Birds, which is nice. Our defensive capabilities just got even better then before
---------------------------
STATS
So we've got a jaw-dropping 10 ECONOMY, which is definitely going to be useful.
Our Martial is looking nice and high, always a good thing to see when you're neighbors are as rowdy as ours. Note that our army is very strongly defensive right now, which is alright if we're attacked but we're gonna need some chariots to chase down enemies and launch offensive attacks.
Our Stability is once again at 1, showing that the Blackbird+Restore Order choice paid off after all. Next turn, I'd like to secondary Grand Sacrifice if possible so that we can raise that a bit more and gain a stronger buffer for when the next LoO trigger occurs (probably once the DPs collapse under the TH and HL's assaults)
Also, here's our Military Tech:
We have Composite Bows now instead of Recurve Bows, which is really going to hurt anyone who tries to attack us. Kinda surprised that we have composite bow technology in the Stone Age, but I ain't complaining.
-----------------------
CHOICES:
Choice the first - what should our King do to deal with all the mess occurring at our borders?
Option A: Reinforce the place that's being attacked by nomads. Probably a good idea
Option B: Try to find out where those Viking bastards came from. Also probably a good idea
Option C and D: Send a trade mission to one of our friends and congratulate them for beating up the DPs. Eh, I'm not sure... would sending it to one place annoy the people in the other group?
Choice the second - the chiefs in the threatened areas want more power to fight off the nomads
Option A: No change, but it might lock down one of our secondaries in the future, which would be annoying
Option B: "Sure, you can build walls and shit to stop the raiders"
Option C: "Look, I'm kinda busy now. Do whatever you want as long as it stops the nomads from getting through."
Choice the third - Do we want to twist the knife in the DPs gut? (Hint: the answer is yes)
Option A: ... why would we do this?
Option B: The conservative option. Doesn't hurt the DPs that much, but doesn't bring our own Stability below 0 again either
Option C: "We are the Hill People. Resistance is futile. Your cultural and culinary uniqueness shall be added to our collective."
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Main] Restore Order
Valleyhome - Study Stars
Northshore - Expand Economy
Sacred Forest - Study Forest
[X] [Main] Restore Order
Valleyhome - Study Stars
Northshore - Expand Economy
Sacred Forest - Study Forest
As you can see, Valleyhome's just going to keep repeating that "Study Stars" action over and over cause they've got nothing else to do. Which is good, cause having someone do it every turn helps us out a lot. Northshore (our new place) is learning to git gud at farming while the people in Sacred Forest have decided to
- Remember that pregnant lady from a few turns ago? Noxivah? I think we're seeing her daughter here, which is kinda cool.
- Her skin is "duskier" then the native kid's. Is that normal? Are the lowlanders naturally darker skinned compared to our people?
- And here we see Study Forest paying off. We're developing some nasty poisons and learning how to make them more potent
- Apparently, we've got enough Blackbirds to check on people's fields now instead of relying on the chiefs to report everything. Or is Jumtyyn just spending a lot of time here so he can hang out with his crush?
- Am I the only one who's amused that Noxivah turned out to be an over-protective mum? She went from being terrified of Blackbirds and Carrion Eaters to chasing them away from her daughter
- Looks like we have 3 conflict zones in our territory: the nomad raids to the north (I knew they'd be back someday!), the conflicts along the southern shores (... are we having Viking problems now?) and the lowlands (where it looks like the Highlanders and Thunder Horse are kicking the shit out of the Dead Priests)
- On the plus side, we've apparently done pretty well in dealing with the corruption. Having more ninjas helped a lot
- We've got Boat People raiding our southern shore border, which is a bit concerning. Pirates? Or did someone else develop a navy? We have a possible exploration mission to find out where they're coming from
- And we have new and improved bows as a side effect of Maining Black Birds, which is nice. Our defensive capabilities just got even better then before
---------------------------
STATS
Civilization Stats
General
Diplomacy 7
Economy 10
Martial 8
Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4
General
Diplomacy 7
Economy 10
Martial 8
Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4
So we've got a jaw-dropping 10 ECONOMY, which is definitely going to be useful.
Our Martial is looking nice and high, always a good thing to see when you're neighbors are as rowdy as ours. Note that our army is very strongly defensive right now, which is alright if we're attacked but we're gonna need some chariots to chase down enemies and launch offensive attacks.
Our Stability is once again at 1, showing that the Blackbird+Restore Order choice paid off after all. Next turn, I'd like to secondary Grand Sacrifice if possible so that we can raise that a bit more and gain a stronger buffer for when the next LoO trigger occurs (probably once the DPs collapse under the TH and HL's assaults)
Also, here's our Military Tech:
Armour
Leather
Quilted cloth
Wicker
Cavalry
Plank wheeled chariots
Melee
Ceramic Maces
Light Shields
Spears
Two-Handed Clubs
Ranged
Composite Bows
Slings
Spear Throwers
Leather
Quilted cloth
Wicker
Cavalry
Plank wheeled chariots
Melee
Ceramic Maces
Light Shields
Spears
Two-Handed Clubs
Ranged
Composite Bows
Slings
Spear Throwers
We have Composite Bows now instead of Recurve Bows, which is really going to hurt anyone who tries to attack us. Kinda surprised that we have composite bow technology in the Stone Age, but I ain't complaining.
-----------------------
CHOICES:
Choice the first - what should our King do to deal with all the mess occurring at our borders?
Option A: Reinforce the place that's being attacked by nomads. Probably a good idea
Option B: Try to find out where those Viking bastards came from. Also probably a good idea
Option C and D: Send a trade mission to one of our friends and congratulate them for beating up the DPs. Eh, I'm not sure... would sending it to one place annoy the people in the other group?
Choice the second - the chiefs in the threatened areas want more power to fight off the nomads
Option A: No change, but it might lock down one of our secondaries in the future, which would be annoying
Option B: "Sure, you can build walls and shit to stop the raiders"
Option C: "Look, I'm kinda busy now. Do whatever you want as long as it stops the nomads from getting through."
Choice the third - Do we want to twist the knife in the DPs gut? (Hint: the answer is yes)
Option A: ... why would we do this?
Option B: The conservative option. Doesn't hurt the DPs that much, but doesn't bring our own Stability below 0 again either
Option C: "We are the Hill People. Resistance is futile. Your cultural and culinary uniqueness shall be added to our collective."
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
I can see the charm of +2 stability of main grand S. Main F for random stuff is tempting too, but only +1 stability.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Thinking our people are whitish, probably from the Caucasus
The Low landers are probably Middle Eastern or indianish
Our people did move here from somewhere else at the beginning
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Post them anyways, who cares. I love quotes. Source material is the only true footing to stand on. At least until you question, "does this EXIST or not??"
Edited to do that. It's 100% more reasonable. Burning all of our shit as we welcome DP scum into our homes would just confuse them. And I want a festival to commemorate The Day They Fell!!!
We're set up well for farming otherwise unprofitable land- like the Eastern Hills. Let everyone else fight over the lowlands, we grab the territory that we're best in and that other people don't want.
We've got a good enough military for defense... for now. Unless we're planning on launching an attack, it makes more sense to expand our action count ASAP and thus get more actions and thus more of everything.
Action economy is god in this game. Unless we're going to take permanent damage, more actions means more of everything.
Also, why does everyone want Expand Warriors over Build Chariots? Chariots guarantees an advancement and gives more martial for no extra cost.
Provinces decrease centralization, not increase hierarchy.
- Location
- Hell
The work fields in the Lowlands, we work forests. They spend more time in the sun.
I don't think those are the fields she's talking about...
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
veekie brought up the possibility that it allows all the dissenters to run away, giving them stability.
Only as a main though. As a secondary it cost one more econ for the same benefits.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
we want the tech advancements EW would give us more than we want a) fancy carts, b) unlikely cart archers. We want a strong core before we work our shoulders.
I support this but tbh not many other people do and the martial group are good at paranoid fearmongering. *hugs*
*whispers* Also the TH and HK might attack us soon. *hands you a flyer labeled "Barbarians in your house? More Likely Than You Might Think!! Support More Troops Now!"*
couldn't agree more but lol same as above
tldr: yeah. BUT ur not gonna get what you want because this stuff doesn't have any sense of urgency.
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- Location
- his hidden lair
And I think that's a fucking terrible attitude to have. Eventually we're going to have to secure the region and making moves to do that while our would be opposites just makes sense.
Waiting and hoping the increasingly advanced warmongers to simply be good fucking sports about it all seems stupid. We have the power to prevent another DP from forming and people are content to simply claim the issue is done with.
And I have to vehemently disagree once more. Action economy is great here not because it's god- but because it gives us the free action to react and exploit opportunities better.
We can expand our military knowing our econ is stable, or be content we'll eventually get a calendar because Valleyhome likes to star gaze- but they don't necessarily actually resolve or address our present problems. Action economy exists to enable us, opportunity does not exist to enable the action economy.
EDIT:
As far as I'm concerned- there isn't a major immediate threat, but I think that means we have the opportunity to prevent a would be long term threat from popping up, and for short term risk have the chance to massively expand in the long run leaving us much stronger.
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Hmm.
Here's a question for people: what do we think are the forms of government of the various local civilizations?
Because I think we can confidently say, at this point, that the lowlands are too big for most early forms of government to actually coordinate. They're too big for us, so how would the other polities handle them?
Here's a question for people: what do we think are the forms of government of the various local civilizations?
Because I think we can confidently say, at this point, that the lowlands are too big for most early forms of government to actually coordinate. They're too big for us, so how would the other polities handle them?
- Location
- his hidden lair
Tributary theocracy for the DP
Early Hereditary kingdom with tributaries for the HK, and possibly the same for the TH- who knows exactly.
Information: Official Staff Communication
Generic_Generica
Notice me Senpai~
- Location
- Right behind you
official staff communication
Part of me's saddened by this statement.
But this is still a good idea.
But this is still a good idea.
warning
Please stay calm and on-topic. I understand quests can become heated.
But that's no excuse to call other people names. Only warning.
That goes for the rest of you all. Please remain civil and productive.
That's all for now. Good luck, have fun.
But that's no excuse to call other people names. Only warning.
That goes for the rest of you all. Please remain civil and productive.
That's all for now. Good luck, have fun.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
TH: Family groups with an inheritance process based around the axe. Likely shifting toward a raiding military nobility as they subdue and assimilate farmers. Upon entering the lowlands will fracture apart into family tribes who will each grab land and raid other places. Due to strong emphasis on blood ties, will likely remain affiliated in a loose way with a central tribe. Inheritance/Legitimacy likely to be based more on historic possession of axe and relation to general "TH Clan" rather than strict bloodline as intra- and extra-marriage occurs among familial groupings. Likely more prone to power shifts, but less affected by them.
HK: Has a King, values order, likely nobility/feudal structure. Will assimilate land through diplo/martial actions. Establish local nobility for certain vassal sites, likely Ducal nobility uniting larger areas. Slower but steadier expansion than TH, more centralized. Durable over the long term but not fluid. May or may not be hereditary in form: HK was formed by a single chief but no mention was made otherwise. Shifts among kings and nobility likely to be extremely damaging. Legitimacy a key value, affected by a mix of bloodline and title if hereditary, family titles and personal prowess if not.
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
DP - Theocracy using vassal states to reap benefit with military investments.
HK - Early Monarchy with vassal state and possible minor nobles to develop local land?
TH - Settled tribal, maybe pull northern nomads to use land as grazing area? Taxing them every season
Us - multi-layer red tape tying governors together under cental authority?
Neither of these options are terribly good for claiming the entire lowlands anytime soon. It's too likely they'd end up splitting off renegade provinces that decided to become their own kingdom.
Which, ah, kind of leads to its own point.
What reason does any province we settle in the lowlands have to stick around and remain part of our civilization rather than going off on its own?
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
A very big stick and cannibalistic neighbor. Or just crushing tax from HK?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
the same point all our other provinces stick around.
[X] Reinforce Northshore
[X] Send additional resources to assist (-1 Centralization, allows Northshore to spend Econ on defensive measures while being attacked)
[X] Actively encourage the abandonment of the Dead Priest leaders by their people (-2 Stability, -1 Diplomacy, +4-5 Econ, chance to collapse the Dead Priests)
[X] Send additional resources to assist (-1 Centralization, allows Northshore to spend Econ on defensive measures while being attacked)
[X] Actively encourage the abandonment of the Dead Priest leaders by their people (-2 Stability, -1 Diplomacy, +4-5 Econ, chance to collapse the Dead Priests)
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Imbedded cultural values and beliefs. Regular contact. The threat of force from us; the threat of forced assimilation from others.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Mutual defense, better quality of life, cultural assimilation (something we're damn good at), trade, and cultural inertia.
The better question to ask is- 'what part of being a province in our kingdom is so onerous military rebellion is preferable'. Persia ruled most the known world (at the time)* with a system not dissimilar to ours, and unless this region is much larger than I thought it was, ancient civilizations conquered and dominated the fertile crescent- which presumably is of similar size.
*Frankly, our provincial system seems better than the Satrapy system if only because each of our 'satraps' can potentially win the crown and is thus personally invested in supporting the state. Why rebel to seize the throne when it can be one through political acumen?
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- Location
- Australia
I'd rather we do it as a Main. It's more economical and puts us at 2 Stability, which may very well be necessary since we're talking about the collapse of one of the oldest and biggest civilisations known to the People. It's gonna result in a lot of refugees.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
@Academia Nut
Are our governors able to become king? What about warriors/shamans/farmers/merchants?
Or is it current limited to those in government?
Never mind it's on page 1.
Another question, does governors and king meet regularly?
Or is it current limited to those in government?
Never mind it's on page 1.
Another question, does governors and king meet regularly?
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Inserted tally. Ugh, I was so wrong about what people are voting for. I thought the bandwagon would stick cus it was a damn nice bandwagon. The end of the DP... anyways so we actually are going to lose centralization. That's shitty. We should fix that the turn after next or so. Or at least do trails w/ a province expansion to balance out the loss that will occur.
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Our other provinces get a lot of value out of Divine Stewards and the communistic society we've put together - food insurance, etc. I wouldn't expect the same to be true in the lowlands (the entire reason we're interested in them is the wealth they produce without significant investment), especially if we're treating them as a breadbasket - they'd be seeing a lot of combat, and a lot of sending food and manpower back to the rest of our kingdom, and over the long term I'd expect that to result in cultural friction if they're not perceiving much coming back the other way.