Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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- Original
What else would be as grand as the wall though? You can't be the valley dead priests without a giant skull megaproject after all. It just wouldn't be proper.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
I figure he wants to have them beat each other with a stick until the goodies pop out, literally like two pinatas hitting each other for our benefit. I'd have to warn you though, @Sivantic, that kind of plan won't stand up very long to scrutiny. Our actions aren't considered in a vacuum, and even if we can get those two to beat each other half to death, odds are a civ with a much less paranoid sense of risk-assessment will take to the attack and conquer before we do.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Do you, too, support a trade mission <3 <3
I agree that a skull megaproject sounds silly. We should just make a mosaic by using differently-colored blocks as we build the dam instead.
you mean twin stars as in like when you have binary stars and the larger one sucks away the mass of the other, right?
Belated reply:
Tbh I don't care much about the cow pop. ratio, it doesn't seem to matter in the long run.
I didn't say nor do I care about people exporting copper to us. What matters in this context is whether they have enough copper for making their own needles, which they should.
There's no need to infect people with "just" cowpox, all that matters is that a) they get infected with cowpox, b) whatever else they get infected with is better than the plague. If people already know that untreated punctures are likely to get infected they'll know to wash the site. Hygiene taboos are an unnecessarily high requirement, which is why I said "even minimal hygiene." Hygiene can be a custom, a habit, an etc., not just a taboo.
Edited:
You mentioned using trade pidgin and I skimmed this last section, so I'm altering it to address that aspect. I feel that it is inarguable that "trade" pidgin is a pidgin of commonly shared words in part constructed to solve a particular goal - i.e., trade. When attempting to arrive at a shared conclusion in regards to other goals - e.g. diplomatic agreements - other "pidgins" can and will be constructed. The difference is due to different vocabulary being emphasized. I continue to believe that it is extremely likely that there are members in our population - and those of other polities - who are familiar with x polity's language and customs. This should be especially notable in our polity, of course, due to the hereditary nature of our traders.
Regardless, it is my opinion that when it comes to teaching people how to identify the disease, pointing is enough: all that is needed is to see and remember the various stages and symptoms of the disease. When it comes to teaching people how to convey the disease, whether to people or cows, demonstrating is enough: all that is needed is to see what occurs, and optionally to understand to which entities the prayers are offered. The issue of immune v. uninfected cows is more difficult to convey, but presumably as possible as carrying out bargains, safely negotiating passage, and otherwise doing a Trade Mission is. I say this in light of the fact that we seem to have a knowledge that the pox can only be caught once, IIRC.
The same applies to the people we supplied this info to supplying it to others, albeit with some mutations as their own priests and herders add and subtract new aspects to the information which, likely don't alter the ultimate effect, as that would be noticed and the changes necessarily excised.
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- Location
- Hell
Nay, simple astronomy. Binary Stars systems occur when two stars cirle each other.
Thet get along fine until something occurs and then well...
Nope, I mean causing one civ collapse in on itself and eating the remains, rather than banging one against another and snatching what falls out.
Yes
- Location
- Panama City
Well, we'll likely be too busy raising stability this turn to do study rocks, so a secondary trade mission to metal kingdom is the best way we're going to do it this turn.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I rly wanna see what [] [Main] Proclaim Glory looks like. That + TM - MW + Establish Annual Festival/EAF.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Here is a possible Action Path that does Stability and Studies Rocks.
Step 1:
[][Main] Study Rocks
[][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival.
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
Takes -1 Econ, greater chance of new metal insights, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects from festival. Since main-ing Festival doesn't give much more than secondary except in specific cases.
Step 2:
[][Main] Restore Harmony
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors x2
Takes -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects for warriors. Either -1 or possibly raising our Stability by a good amount. Proclaim Glory or another Festival might be better.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
This is from way back, but this isn't a comet, at least I'm fairly sure it's not. It's probably a supernova - there's been instances of that happening in history, and it lasted about a month or two IIRC. So sacrificing our king would be seen to have an effect, assuming I'm right. Even if it turns out to be a comet making a close pass, the effect itself will fade soon, so the sacrifice will end up going down in legend.
I dunno if it's winning or not and I'm not gonna find out, just wanted to blurb.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I think it's probably a comet.
*Paranoia hat: ON!*
Or it's aliens come to check out this life bearing world.
*Paranoia hat: OFF!*
Endless Blue Sky: Soothsaying
Now in color~
As we go deeper down the rabbit hole of what we can do and need to plan for, we inevitably start to lose our way. This final analysis of our actions, therefore, should be taken with a rather notable pound of salt. Still, prediction requires analysis and as times change we can re-evaluate what needs to be done and what doesn't need to be done.
Critical Priority Missions
High Priority Missions
Medium Priority Missions
Low Priority Missions
Priority In Flux Missions
There. The idea behind priorities is that higher priorities get done first and access to main actions first, not necessarily to the point of excluding other actions, however.
I honestly feel this is rather comprehensive, and am going to bookmark this post for me to refer back to. I do hope it at least helps people sort their desires.
Now in color~
As we go deeper down the rabbit hole of what we can do and need to plan for, we inevitably start to lose our way. This final analysis of our actions, therefore, should be taken with a rather notable pound of salt. Still, prediction requires analysis and as times change we can re-evaluate what needs to be done and what doesn't need to be done.
Critical Priority Missions
Mysticism Stimulus Package: Whether we take a single secondary action to expand shrines, a main action of expanding shrines, or even a main action of building a settlement, we need to give an influx into Mysticism next turn. Mysticism 0 has been shown to be unacceptable, and we should do our best to get out of it. Goal: Bring Mysticism to 1. Can be achieved with either secondary or main actions.Achieved!- Stability Booster Pack: It's no secret that our Stability is in massive flux right now. It's also somewhat apparent that having +1 Stability at the start of all of this would have prevented a lot. We need to put a great deal of effort into getting back to Stability 0 at the end of all of this, and then bring ourselves up to Stability +1. Goal: Bring Stability to 1. True emergency maneuvers will require both one secondary and one main action in a single turn. Exact need depends on outcome of current situation.
High Priority Missions
- Core Military Build-Up: Our military is no longer at 'holy shit' levels, but we still need to expand its core base so as to allow for us to act outside of our highly defensive land. It's a pretty daunting task, but we can do it. It will just take some time and should probably be paced out in between turns. Goal: Expand Warriors as a Main action two more times. Will take two main actions.
Moderate Bullshit: While Mysticism 1 is all fine and dandy, we can safely assume that it would be nothing more than a stopgap solution. While we don't have a real number to aim for, bringing things up to Mysticism 3 would likely be a decent start. Goal: Bring Mysticism up to 3. Will take either a Main action, two Main Actions, or two Secondary actions in addition to the Mysticism Stimulus Package.Achieved!- Shaping Stone: Many projects that we will want moving forward will greatly benefit from metalworking, which would give us tools that we do not have to constantly remake, freeing up a great deal of labor and requiring less skill be put into using a tool in such a way as to not break it, or break it just right. This will likely notably decrease any major construction project's time or increase it's pay-off. We can either do this by trying to figure it out on our own, or trading with the metal miners in an attempt to further figure out their techniques. Goal: Discover and implement basic copper working. Warning, total number of actions taken to achieve are unknown.
Coastal Creep: With the comet currently throwing everything in disarray, it is possible that the nomads will be too busy panicking to bother raiding people. Or they'll decide to resort to raiding people even more heavily. Or they'll all start worshiping us for being the best known spiritualists. Who knows? The outcome of this turn will have a distinct possibility of creating an opening for taking the coastal villages to the north east under our wing and giving us the time to build up defenses before the nomads start raiding again. We will have to wait and see how viable this is and how much we are willing to take it though. Goal: Diplomatically Annex Northern Coastal Villages. Will require at least one Main action to build new trails plus subsequent actions to set up defenses and possibly defend the area.Achieved!
Medium Priority Missions
Internal Trade Network:We have two ways of building up our centralization. One is through brute force and show of arms, perhaps creating some sort of internal police force in the process, the other is to expand logistics throughout our land. Logistics can only go so far, however, so we shouldn't count on them to solve all problems.Goal: Bring Centralization to 5 using the New Trails action. Will currently take one secondary action, other actions may increase actions needed to be taken.Achieved!Rightful Authority: While building logistics is always a good idea, there is a lot to be said about enforcing power and reminding people who is actually in charge. On a more mechanical note, Enforce Authority's actual advantage is that taken as a main action there is very likely to be no stability drop and a minimum gain of 2 Centralization, with a possibility of 3. Even more impressive, is that it does not require econ to be taken. We should also be aware of the potential effects of one of our strongest new tools before finding ourselves in a position where we need to rely on it. Prerequisites: Centralization bellow 6 (to avoid pushing centralization past limits) and Stability at or above 1. Goal: Take action once to understand it and to drastically increase Centralization. Will take one Main action.Max Achieved at 5.The Will of the King:Our Hierarchy score is quite noticeably above our centralization score currently, and it is causing a fair amount of problems by black boxing and spreading out our power among the provinces. Through some combination of New Trails and Enforce Authority, we need to fix this.Goal: Have Centralization score equal to Hierarchy score. Will take a varying amount of actions.Max Achieved at 5.- Auxiliary Troops: While the backbone of the army is of great importance, it needs the extra bits and pieces to bring its full might to bare. Currently this means more carts, with hopefully a chance for an upgrade to chariots. Goal: Take a secondary action of Build More War Carts. Will take one Secondary Action.
Scout Rush: Recon units are a very major advantage. They allow us to better police our internal society, know what our enemies are up to, and gain numerous leg ups through acquiring new technology and the such. However, they could be more, and it seems a Main action would do just that. Prerequisite: Mysticism 5. Goal: Take a Main action of More Blackbirds. Will take one Main action.Achieved!- Doctors Strange: Battle medics offer a great deal of advantages and insights while fighting, in addition to a decidedly large amount of interest in understanding and advancing health. Like the Blackbirds, though, they could be more, and it seems a main action will also do just that for them. Prerequisite: Mysticism 5. Goal: Take a Main action of More Carrion Eaters. Will take one Main action.
- Grand Spirits: The places to spirits need to be upgraded or otherwise expanded to accommodate more people and greater knowledge. In order to provide a buffer for various actions, we must expand our holy sites by a substantial amount. Goal: Bring Mysticism up to 5 in order to feed Scout Rush and Doctor's Strange. Afterwards Bring it up to 5 in order to provide a safety net for any further needs for Mysticism. Will take either 3 Main actions or 6 Secondary actions.
- Stone Woods: The area around Stonepen could use further defenses to stop nomadic raids. It is not of great critical need, however, as much of the land must be devoted to pastures due to its nature, causing raw troops to be a more effective defense. Goal: Expand woods in Stonepen once with a secondary or main action. Will take a secondary or main action.
- Preparing to Expand: While Black Soil is currently enough to support our owned areas, there will be times when we wish to expand to less hospitable areas. In order to prepare for that day, we need more. Goal: Take Black Soil once as either a Secondary or Main action. Will take a Secondary or Main action.
Low Priority Missions
- Eastern Hill Expansion: The Eastern hills are unused land that will not be heavily contested for ownership, however even if they are left completely alone, the area will require a great deal of effort to be made livable. So it is a set of actions that will require a fair amount to defend, while offering little in return. Still, a new province is a new province. Prerequisites: Be prepared to devote the following actions to establishing walls for new settlements, expanding forests, new trails, and defensive wars. Goal: Build a main Settlement and Main Wall on the same turn for the Eastern Hills. Will take a full turn plus subsequent turns to establish the province.
- Absolute Stability: Gaining maximum stability isn't needed, but it will provide a very good buffer against things going very wrong. Prerequisite: Stability of at least 1. Goal: Use Restore Harmony to bring Stability to 3. Will take at least one Main action, likely two, possibly more depending on luck.
- Southern Border: With the combination of the plague and the comet, the Lowlands is in utter chaos. This may very well require us to set up a settlement in the Badlands to defend the area or give us an opportunity when the dust settles to get our foot in the door with a settlement on the incredibly fertile river. We will, again, have to see how things progress to determine how much of a gamble it is and how worth it the gamble would be. Goal: Establish a Border Fort in either the Badlands or the Lowlands proper. Will take a Full turn plus subsequent actions to set up defenses depending on which area is taken.
Priority In Flux Missions
- None Currently
There. The idea behind priorities is that higher priorities get done first and access to main actions first, not necessarily to the point of excluding other actions, however.
I honestly feel this is rather comprehensive, and am going to bookmark this post for me to refer back to. I do hope it at least helps people sort their desires.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I like it. Reading more deeply. Will determine two step plan to solve both of our Critical Missions.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
[] [Main] Proclaim Glory
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
Econ = -3; Art = -3; Legit/Stab/~Prestige = +1. (I do not support shanking)
not that I support ignoring the magic of [] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Workers, which I honestly believe MUST be done next turn, and thus should should take priority over Mysticism or maybe Festival, depending on whether our stability is -1/0 or lower. If it's -1/0, Festival isn't urgent so long as we do Proclaim Glory. If it is <-1, it is. I wanna do PG cus I want the #Prestige #aka #SWAG
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We could always do secondary festival and main the diplo mission you know.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
*shrug* tru but PG is only worthwhile as a Main. The Trade Mission *would* be more likely to return w/ tech or better relations is Mained though. So honestly this is a really wise response. Thank you <3 <3We could always do secondary festival and main the diplo mission you know.
[] [Main] Trade Mission - Metal Workers
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
Econ = -3; Diplo = -1 + {1,2} (now) + {1, 2} (next); Mysticism += 1; Stability += 1; Metal Tech += ??/??
Yeah, def fine w/ this assuming we're not being invaded by ppl oozing sores and moaning for our heads.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Ok! *Rubs hands together in prep for work*
Action Path "Gimmie Mah Stability!"
Step 1:
[] [Main] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission Metal Workers
Takes -2 Econ, +2 Stability, +1 Art, a large chance for additional effects. Trade Mission to MW -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;.
Step 2:
[] [Main] Proclaim Glory
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites x2
Takes -3 Econ, +2 Mysticism, potential additional effects from double Holy, -2 Art,+1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
Action Path "Gimmie Mah Stability!"
Step 1:
[] [Main] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission Metal Workers
Takes -2 Econ, +2 Stability, +1 Art, a large chance for additional effects. Trade Mission to MW -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;.
Step 2:
[] [Main] Proclaim Glory
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites x2
Takes -3 Econ, +2 Mysticism, potential additional effects from double Holy, -2 Art,+1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
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Main Trade mission costs 1 econ, 1 diplo, and feeds back 1-2 diplo at the end of the turn and 1-2 diplo next turn.
Edit: I'm not sure how a main establish festival and a secondary establish festival work together. It may just make a sort of main and a half action. You may have to replace the main action there with Proclaim glory and the next proclaim glory with establish festival. Same effect, more assured to not go wrong.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Not sure. Ask Academia Nut?
Hey @Academia Nut?
Will this action give us what I indicate it will?
[] [Main] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission Metal Workers
Takes -2 Econ, +2 Stability, +1 Art, a large chance for additional effects. Trade Mission to MW -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn.
I'm so so glad this thread has calmed down and we are all being nice people again. Thanks guys and gals and others.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
(I prrrfr it 2 b hrsh n shouty idk y u wnt it nys.)>(^'.'^)(<< ) <3<3---------<|||- my evil side
Oh, and to really hammer in why I put getting Mysticism to 1 as a critical mission.
We appear to have, quite specifically, rolls for mystic challenges. I suspect that if we had at least mysticism 1 we would have done a little bit better, or perhaps the crit doom range would have been reduced. Blackbox mechanics and all. Either way, I feel the difference between 0 Mysticism and 1 Mysticism is immense and very much worth it when we are getting background rolls for mystic challenges on a regular (perhaps by turn) basis.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
yea of little faith
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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How's about we all make a gentlebeings agreement to propose vote ideas, see if they fit our current Mission Priorities. If they don't, adjust. And then vote.
We all need to keep our heads. Especially since we are the hivemind running an entire virtual civilization.
Adjusting Action Path "Gimmie Mah Stability!"
Edit: Might want to put a smiley after that Umi-san.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Adjusted plan.
Step 1:
[] [Main] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy sites
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission Metal Workers
Takes -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, a chance for additional effects from festival, +1 Mysticism. Trade Mission to MW -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;.
Step 2:
[] [Main] Proclaim Glory
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[] [Secondary] Expand Black Soil
Takes -3 Econ, +1 Mysticism, -3 Art, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects from soil.
Step 1:
[] [Main] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy sites
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission Metal Workers
Takes -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, a chance for additional effects from festival, +1 Mysticism. Trade Mission to MW -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;.
Step 2:
[] [Main] Proclaim Glory
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[] [Secondary] Expand Black Soil
Takes -3 Econ, +1 Mysticism, -3 Art, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects from soil.
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