It's also less a matter of manipulating things than it is keeping our cards close to our chest.
The Ward is likely to reduce the impact of the seasonal (it's endemic) plague on our population while still affecting others the same, so long as we don't give it to them. It thus needn't rely either on the effect of the current plague nor on an unpredictable future plague.
Meanwhile, all that giving it away gives us in the short term is a stab, which helps but not as much as the TH distraction did.
After receiving a report from this thread I've gone and reviewed the past 20(!)-odd pages. I've not found anything actionable. With that said, however, the climate of this thread is pretty high-octane. People are getting short with each other a lot. I've done it before, too, so I get it. But it's still a game at the end of the day.
I'd like to ask that people chill out a little bit when they post and generally extend each other some charity. There's no need to be so tightly wound about things eh?
[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
[X] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
I am willing to throw the dice and vote by my guts and not by deep number-crunching.
They severely outnumber us. A frenzied, bloodthirsty mob vs mostly farmers? Not pretty.
In the end, they will hurt us, perhaps even badly, and we really don't need it, especially right now. Spreading the wards gains us little to nothing at a great risk.
We have no real major allies. Anyone we could teach that's closer to us can trivially be absorbed as refugees. Win-win.
Bull
The Plagued Famined people are going to make a 6 month journey to the north?
Ha Right...
That really is magic.
When they arrived the starving plagued people are going to defeat us on our land without many weapons or any siege equipment or anything like that
Yea right
[X] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
I've reformatted the actions to make them a bit more readable.
@Academia Nut: There are a few anomolies, like "Build War Carts" not having a main action version and "Expand Action" not being split into main / secondary. I'm not sure if these are deliberate.
Update: Clarified by others that this is deliberate and means main is x2 secondary. Added this to the action information.
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Build War Carts - This design has completely supplanted use of the older war wagons, but more of them could be useful on flat lands. Further work might also work out how to make the improved version used by Wendtikwos
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial, has chance to improve design
* M: x2 of secondary
Enforce Authority - The power of the king is not to be questioned, and the army can be used to demonstrate that
* S: -1 to 0 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: -1 to 0 Stability, lower odds of Stability loss, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and can help teach newcomers the ways of the People, so perhaps another festival might be of use?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability 2
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* S: +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* M: x2 of secondary
* 4 uses remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 2 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redcoast (can go north or south), blue stone quarry within Sacred Forest
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max 3 Stability; modified by Diplomacy skill
Restoration of Harmony - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. [Harmony+Sacred War] Kicker: Can increase Stability to 3
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sacred Warriors - The Blackbirds have proven effective scouts, spies, and killers, but are there other ways to combine the knowledge of spirits with the skills of a warrior?
* S: -2 Mysticism, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
* M: -2 Mysticism, +1 Martial, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
Sailing Mission - The new boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - High Chief Hewthyun responded quite well to the methods the shamans applied, perhaps more widespread application of these methods might have additional benefits?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
I've also tried an experiment with splitting them into categories of actions:
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* S: +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* M: x2 of secondary
* 4 uses remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 2 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redcoast (can go north or south), blue stone quarry within Sacred Forest
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Build War Carts - This design has completely supplanted use of the older war wagons, but more of them could be useful on flat lands. Further work might also work out how to make the improved version used by Wendtikwos
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial, has chance to improve design
* M: x2 of secondary
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
Sacred Warriors - The Blackbirds have proven effective scouts, spies, and killers, but are there other ways to combine the knowledge of spirits with the skills of a warrior?
* S: -2 Mysticism, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
* M: -2 Mysticism, +1 Martial, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
Enforce Authority - The power of the king is not to be questioned, and the army can be used to demonstrate that
* S: -1 to 0 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: -1 to 0 Stability, lower odds of Stability loss, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and can help teach newcomers the ways of the People, so perhaps another festival might be of use?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability 2
Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max 3 Stability; modified by Diplomacy skill
Restoration of Harmony - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. [Harmony+Sacred War] Kicker: Can increase Stability to 3
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - High Chief Hewthyun responded quite well to the methods the shamans applied, perhaps more widespread application of these methods might have additional benefits?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
* used 1 time
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential additional effects
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Sailing Mission - The new boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Sacrifice has a tiny 1-vote lead, but all the rest are fairly secure with at least a 10-vote lead.
[33][Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[40][Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[46][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[38][Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[30][Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
actionOrderBase = ['SacrificeEverything', 'KingStay', 'HarmonyNo', 'WardKeep', 'RefugeeFriendly']
Overall I'm fine with either of them- large has a 3% chance of death but I don't like the trait combo of our people sacrificing everything and our king not sacrificing as well, especially with the moderately limited Immigration. For those wishing to check/explore options themselves, program is here.
Assuming SacrificeEverything and KingStay happens, I think our local maxima is to also take HarmonyYes. This puts us back to a 3% chance of death instead of removing it entirely, but also gives a 44% chance of ending up at 0 or greater stability, 68% chance of -1 or greater. (HarmonyNo gives 18% to 0, 62% to -1 or greater)
I still think that my vote is the best plan overall with both good mechanics and some nice trait effects, but it's unstable since any single change makes it very dangerous, and without plan-based voting that's a big risk. My vote is
actionOrderBase = ['SacrificeEverything', 'KingDies', 'HarmonyNo', 'WardKeep', 'RefugeeMany']
This has 0% chance of death, 88% chance of stability -2 or greater, and most importantly has our people doing their best to help those who come to them.
It's sacred magic like the ST's or the metalworking. People will be annoyed, sure, but I think it's far more likely that they don't realize that we could give it to them since it's our own sacred magics.
Where'd you get the chances for your program? Are they educated guesses, or did i miss a post by AN at some point where he shared some actual details of what a "small chance" or the like means?
Endless Blue Sky: Mapping Clouds In making our list of shit that needs to get done we are unlikely to be able to map out any solid plan due to the time frame being many, many turns, and the situation changing to a rather notable degree. We can, however, figure out what actions need to be taken in relation to other actions. This analysis intends to do that, or at least get the ball rolling for it.
I'll be working off of the same categories as last time, Centralization, Mysticism, Martial, Stability, and Expansion, listing actions important to each category and the relative order in which they need to happen, along with creating some general goals of some sort to work towards. Centralization Actions
Enforce Authority - The power of the king is not to be questioned, and the army can be used to demonstrate that
* S: -1 to 0 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: -1 to 0 Stability, lower odds of Stability loss, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
These are the two actions we can take to increase Centralization. Enforce Authority is much more effective, however it will require a risk of losing one stability and should therefore only be done at 1 or above stability. While this would be 'optimal,' especially since it doesn't cost any econ, compared to new trails, we shouldn't underestimate the power of new trails or the background effects it will have. We also shouldn't underestimate the general need for Centralization on the immediate level. Mysticism
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redcoast (can go further north or south), badlands, eastern hills
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Special: Badlands settlement requires a Main action to work at all and only returns as a Secondary, but increases response time and decreases logistics for movement in and out of the badlands
Special: Main action for Eastern Hills produces a new province
These are the only actions that can increase Mysticism. Now, while main new settlement may look tempting, it is also putting a main action towards gaining only 1 mysticism. Sure, we gain econ, but that is what our provinces and expansion actions are for. It should thus not be considered a Mysticism boost action, but an expansion action that can get a little bit of extra done.
In the end, it would be better to spend the 1 econ to gain 1 mysticism or suck it up and spend 2 econ in hopes of gaining an expansion to the holy sites. While Econ is a concern here, our bottleneck is closer to action economy and we should try not to take needless actions when we don't need to. Martial
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Build War Carts - This design has completely supplanted use of the older war wagons, but more of them could be useful on flat lands. Further work might also work out how to make the improved version used by Wendtikwos
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial, has chance to improve design
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
Sacred Warriors - The Blackbirds have proven effective scouts, spies, and killers, but are there other ways to combine the knowledge of spirits with the skills of a warrior?
* S: -2 Mysticism, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
* M: -2 Mysticism, +1 Martial, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
It's quite a list, but these are all of our options for expanding our Martial capacity. While this list may look like we have tons of options, there are many limiting factors. First off, we need to increase the backbone of our martial troops. This means that Expand Warriors needs to hit a certain amount before we consider it having been expanded enough. Next, many of these are not only highly specialized troops, but require mysticism to gain or expand. We will need more Blackbirds and Carrion Eaters. As such, we will need to have Mysticism at a solid level. There is also the question of trying to advance Martial training, though we don't know for sure what 'potential additional effects' means. There is a good chance of it advancing our Martial abilities on some notable level.
In short, Main Expand Warriors should be taken to grow our backbone first, followed by secondary actions of more carts and expand warriors on occasion until we gain enough mysticism to get more sacred warriors. Ideally we should aim for tech from expand warriors, but we currently do not know the system well enough to absolutely rely on it. Stability
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and can help teach newcomers the ways of the People, so perhaps another festival might be of use?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability 2
Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max 3 Stability; modified by Diplomacy skill
Restoration of Harmony - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. [Harmony+Sacred War] Kicker: Can increase Stability to 3
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
These are our three options for increasing stability. Establish Annual Festival is the safest by far, where as Proclaim Glory will let us double up on gaining another assured point of stability in the event that we desperately need to bring it up fast, like say if we get down to -3 or -2 stability, and Restoration of Harmony is cheap, but dangerous. It should only be taken when we can actually afford the lost point of Stability, as we will be forced to take it before going and regaining more stability.
We should really try and gain 1 point of stability/turn or so until we get up to +1 stability, or maybe even 2 points a turn if we are sufficiently low. Expansion
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redcoast (can go further north or south), badlands, eastern hills
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Special: Badlands settlement requires a Main action to work at all and only returns as a Secondary, but increases response time and decreases logistics for movement in and out of the badlands
Special: Main action for Eastern Hills produces a new province
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Study Rocks - Somehow certain rocks can be transmuted to metal, if your understanding of what was learned from the Metal Workers is correct.
* S: -1 Mysticism, chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, greater chance of new insights
Well, this list is rather long. Many of these things are one off parts that are tied to specific conditions, such as New Settlement creating a new province to our east and New Trails gaining us a province to the northwest. There are some important things here. Expanding Black Soil production will let us settle inhospitable land, so if we intend to go anywhere as such we should definitely take it beforehand. Build Walls and Expand Forest are both defensive maneuvers, that should both be done after we have secured an area, to further secure said area. Build Walls should even arguably be done as we are securing an area.
The important thing here is Study Rocks. Short of gaining a rapidly closing window (which is quite possible), we need to get that out before we move on to any other expansion project. It allows for easier construction of trails, walls, various buildings for settlements, and rapid farming. However, it also has an unknown development time behind it, which makes putting off things too much very dangerous. The action of Study Rocks, however, should definitely be mained, as it is both cheaper and we can not afford to simply fail at the knowledge check.
——————————————————————————————————————————————Later, I'll try sorting things into blocks based on importance and what needs various pre-requisites to do what. For the moment though, I'm feeling the effects of staying up for far to long last night.
Endless Blue Sky: Mapping Clouds In making our list of shit that needs to get done we are unlikely to be able to map out any solid plan due to the time frame being many, many turns, and the situation changing to a rather notable degree. We can, however, figure out what actions need to be taken in relation to other actions. This analysis intends to do that, or at least get the ball rolling for it.
I'll be working off of the same categories as last time, Centralization, Mysticism, Martial, Stability, and Expansion, listing actions important to each category and the relative order in which they need to happen, along with creating some general goals of some sort to work towards. Centralization Actions
These are the two actions we can take to increase Centralization. Enforce Authority is much more effective, however it will require a risk of losing one stability and should therefore only be done at 1 or above stability. While this would be 'optimal,' especially since it doesn't cost any econ, compared to new trails, we shouldn't underestimate the power of new trails or the background effects it will have. We also shouldn't underestimate the general need for Centralization on the immediate level. Mysticism
These are the only actions that can increase Mysticism. Now, while main new settlement may look tempting, it is also putting a main action towards gaining only 1 mysticism. Sure, we gain econ, but that is what our provinces and expansion actions are for. It should thus not be considered a Mysticism boost action, but an expansion action that can get a little bit of extra done.
In the end, it would be better to spend the 1 econ to gain 1 mysticism or suck it up and spend 2 econ in hopes of gaining an expansion to the holy sites. While Econ is a concern here, our bottleneck is closer to action economy and we should try not to take needless actions when we don't need to. Martial
It's quite a list, but these are all of our options for expanding our Martial capacity. While this list may look like we have tons of options, there are many limiting factors. First off, we need to increase the backbone of our martial troops. This means that Expand Warriors needs to hit a certain amount before we consider it having been expanded enough. Next, many of these are not only highly specialized troops, but require mysticism to gain or expand. We will need more Blackbirds and Carrion Eaters. As such, we will need to have Mysticism at a solid level. There is also the question of trying to advance Martial training, though we don't know for sure what 'potential additional effects' means. There is a good chance of it advancing our Martial abilities on some notable level.
In short, Main Expand Warriors should be taken to grow our backbone first, followed by secondary actions of more carts and expand warriors on occasion until we gain enough mysticism to get more sacred warriors. Ideally we should aim for tech from expand warriors, but we currently do not know the system well enough to absolutely rely on it. Stability
These are our three options for increasing stability. Establish Annual Festival is the safest by far, where as Proclaim Glory will let us double up on gaining another assured point of stability in the event that we desperately need to bring it up fast, like say if we get down to -3 or -2 stability, and Restoration of Harmony is cheap, but dangerous. It should only be taken when we can actually afford the lost point of Stability, as we will be forced to take it before going and regaining more stability.
We should really try and gain 1 point of stability/turn or so until we get up to +1 stability, or maybe even 2 points a turn if we are sufficiently low. Expansion
Well, this list is rather long. Many of these things are one off parts that are tied to specific conditions, such as New Settlement creating a new province to our east and New Trails gaining us a province to the northwest. There are some important things here. Expanding Black Soil production will let us settle inhospitable land, so if we intend to go anywhere as such we should definitely take it beforehand. Build Walls and Expand Forest are both defensive maneuvers, that should both be done after we have secured an area, to further secure said area. Build Walls should even arguably be done as we are securing an area.
The important thing here is Study Rocks. Short of gaining a rapidly closing window (which is quite possible), we need to get that out before we move on to any other expansion project. It allows for easier construction of trails, walls, various buildings for settlements, and rapid farming. However, it also has an unknown development time behind it, which makes putting off things too much very dangerous. The action of Study Rocks, however, should definitely be mained, as it is both cheaper and we can not afford to simply fail at the knowledge check. Later, I'll try sorting things into blocks based on importance and what needs various pre-requisites to do what. For the moment though, I'm feeling the effects of staying up for far to long last night.
These are the only actions that can increase Mysticism. Now, while main new settlement may look tempting, it is also putting a main action towards gaining only 1 mysticism. Sure, we gain econ, but that is what our provinces and expansion actions are for. It should thus not be considered a Mysticism boost action, but an expansion action that can get a little bit of extra done.
To note, there is also the extra benefit of ensuring that the maximum amount of our People recieve immunization when we Main Settlement. We build too many settlements without holy sites, we are going to see reduced effectiveness of our warding.
I can't believe people are voting so much for keeping the warding a secret. I mean my god. We're at -1 Stability right now, and with the votes as they are now, the best can scenario leaves us with 0 Stability, and that relies on us rolling well 3 separate votes, one of which is Everything which is only barely beating Large. If the two most likely to succeed votes fail - Everything and Stay at Home - we'll be at -2, and if we get unlucky enough to fail the Ward roll, we'll be knocked down to -3.
All I'm asking right now is for people to switch their vote from keeping the warding secret to sharing it with friendly tribes. That doesn't mean the TH or the Metal Workers or whatever, it means the little fishing villages and such we keep in contact with. Academia Nut has also said that we won't be giving them the system of distribution we developed, which is the really important thing. Avoiding the chance for a stability loss here should be our priority. The risk of anything bad happening is very low, and any bad stuff that happens will be rather small without the megaproject we did to make it a system.
Keeping it secret also has a good chance of our civilisation getting a bad trait. When you're unwilling to share this life-saving ritual with even your friends for no other reason than that it's sacred, what does that say about our values as a people? Our stance on religion? It's not good.
[X][Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[x] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[X] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[X] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
This plan will - at worst - keep us at -1 with a chance of getting us to 0. It has no chance of getting us to -3 or even -2.
[X] [Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
Want to avoid overcrowding, but not be dicks about it
[X] [Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
counter to above
[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
with the many entering, we soak the econ hit and gain back some stability
[X] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
Where'd you get the chances for your program? Are they educated guesses, or did i miss a post by AN at some point where he shared some actual details of what a "small chance" or the like means?
Educated guesses, but most people figured that they were about right (+/- 10%) and this is a perfectly spaced linear separation which makes a lot of sense mechanically.
The only one which isn't well-educated is the admin roll. Raise the "AdminFail" value to 1 if you want to see what a purely random administrator's chances are. This usually roughly doubles the death% chance.
You don't want to do this without at least 1 immediate stability gain, since a bad admin roll will have the refugees happen first and we instantly die due to -4 stability.
Also, Harmony is very risky if you're right on the border since if you're at -3 and try to use it you instantly die.
What Are We Dealing With: An Examination of Stats ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK
Time to start The List!
This List covers possible action paths for turns after this one.
I will be categorizing those actions by stats, after giving my view on what each stat does. Feel free to politely criticize or offer alternate interpretations to what the stats mean. I enjoy talking this kind of mechanical stuff out.
Edit while I was writing this: Bluefur87 has a good examination of the values of various actions and there varying priorities.
My examination will look at what the stats might mean in a mechanical sense and what certain hypothetical action plans will do.
Stability
Stability is basically our HP in some ways. The analogy kinda falls apart on the higher Stability levels but we do know that hitting -4 at any time even briefly will end our civ. More generally this is how satisfied our people are. And high Stability has been shown to improve all of the actions we do.
This is also our stat which we burn to gain oodles and oodles of food and some tech with LoO. So useful to have it around +2 often so we can take the hit's without reaching 0 Stability, which is not neutral for us I think, and when the Really Big crises like this Comet show up we can survive having every one else freak out and come running to us and come out ahead.
Legitimacy
I'm not quite sure where this falls in. It seems to be a modifier and cap to our Stability as it represents our people's trust in the government. Having it maxed I think means that we are less likely to suffer from dropping Stability as it acts as a sort of armor, dampening the blow. Having it lower than max but not zero means we start to lose the protection and our Stability decreases along with it. At zero and negative Bad Thingstm will happen when we lose Stability as the losses probably get worse.
It is maxed now so we do not need to be overly concerned about it. And no actions here are very likely to make us lose it unless that is one of the ??? which I find as an unlikely possibility. Even Remain Home doesn't make us lose it, which is nice, and the action actually makes logical sense. The others make narrative or a different kind of logical sense. Or their logical matrix is just different.
Having these high for long periods will probably lead to population booms and cultural explosions as people screw each other silly and make luxury things because they feel safe doing so.
This is how well our leader can act and extend his power over the entirety of the country. It also represents how well our countries disparate parts communicate with the center and each other. Having it higher will probably give us more actions, at least secondaries and it will tell us more about what our Provinces are doing with themselves.
Having it lower means we become more disorganized, which is not totally bad. It's very much a double or three edged sword to have it low. The benefits I'm thinking having it low might give is that our lower chiefs start getting more actions to themselves and take actions that might on average improve our civ without our direction. They might not take the actions we really want them to though so having this high but not extreme is probably really damn good.
This falling to 0 or negative is probably lethal in some fashion at least with our current form of governance.
Hierarchy
A stat similar to Legitimacy this represents how many levels of bureaucratic organization between a tiny village chief and the King. I'm not sure if Centralization can go over this but having a high Hierarchy seems to mean we are having corruption problems. Small ones but it's there.
Having this around our centralization will probably help us know what most every one is doing. Since it also is a measure of our tradition it might help dampen the blow like Legitimacy does, and make the losses worse when it is lower.
A possibility is that having high Hierarchy is what is driving our math and writing development. Something to ask Academia Nut.
How much good reputation we have to spend, is what this seems to be. We also spend it as a way to make or break ties. We have generally always had this high, I think. having it low would have uncertain but probably bad consequences. Among other things the other polities around us might start becoming really obstinate and dickish to us. Even more than they are now. Having it high though means we can make a lot of friends and diplo annex lesser minor tribes.
Economy
How much valuable stuff we have. In this age without real forms of currency and a barter system valuable things are; Food, Fancy dyed clothing, Cows, Dye, Colorful rocks, and a few other luxury items. We spend this like water. A very large portion of actions take some kind of Econ cost. We can get this with Trade Missions and by finding valuable things like the snails and the blue stone.
Martial
How killy we are. This is our military and fighting strength. Our Military tech also has something to do with it. Our recent importation of copper and some metal working secrets, if pursued will lead to great improvements here and put us on the leg up over our neighbors on this side of the Western Sea, the big body of water the Metal Workers are on the other side of.
We gain it by winning fights, lose it by losing fights, and can gain it by making new warriors or special elites. We also generally are very good at defending our homes.
How well we use our luxuries and how many luxuries we have. How much pretty things we are making. I wonder if we will get a Michelangelo at some point. We can spend this by Proclaiming How Awesome we are to gain Stability, Legitimacy and possibly Prestige.
Mysticism
Our current Science stat. It also represents how many Shamans and Elders we have free to be doing research or other scholarly things. It definitely can mitigate potential Mysticism crises like the comet before this one or the plagues. Having at zero or below means our people are really easy to freak out when something strange and unexplained happens and our poor shamans are overworked.
Having it high means we can spend it on tech research and get ahead on the tech curve. it defends us from nasty event shocks from this one too. Possibly it also effects how mystical or strange we look to other folks around the place.
Prestige
How awesome and possibly mystical we seem to outsiders. Having it low means we are not all that famous and it probably doesn't affect our Diplo rolls, it might affect them negatively. Especially if the other side has it higher than we do, though they might not even have the stat at this point, maybe the DP do.
Having it high gives us some advantages. People might start coming to us and we gain an advantage in Diplo. We can bank on our fame a little to carry us through tough Diplo rolls, not much but every little bit helps.
Ok now that my thoughts on the stats are out there let's look at Action Paths.
A lot of these are conditional.
Say we want to study rocks and potentially nudge it towards weapons tech. And prepare to attack the Lowlands ourselves. We can first do to prepare:
[][Main] Study Rocks
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] Build War Carts
This takes -3 Econ, gives a greater chance of metal insights, gives +2 Martial and a chance for improving War Cart design. The nudging to copper weapons seems unlikely, but the war cart design might improve and that way leads to using metal in the design. Armoring?
Or
An equivalent is:
[][Main] Study Rocks
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors x2
This takes -3 Econ, gives a greater chance of metal insights, gives +2 Martial and a chance for improving our standard warriors. The nudging to copper weapons seems unlikely. Maybe? Maybe not.
Step two:
[][Main] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] War Mission: Lowlands DP
[][Secondary] Study Rocks
This takes -2 Econ, -1 Mysticism, gives us +2 Martial, potential additional effects for warriors, chance for metal insights. And begins raiding the DP outer territories for a potential loss of Martial and some damage to DP Martial and Diplo.
Or if we want to let full loose right then.
[][Main] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] War Mission: Lowlands DP
[][Secondary] War Mission: Lowlands DP
This takes -2 Econ, gives us +2 Martial, potential additional effects for warriors . And begins attacking the DP outer territories for a probable loss of Martial and some damage to DP Martial, Econ and Diplo. War Carts has identical costs if mained instead but we'd be attacking in flat terrain with potentially a Main and a Secondaries worth of War Carts plus what we already have.
Possible Step 3:
[][Main] War Mission: Lowlands DP
[][Secondary] War Mission: Lowlands DP
[][Secondary] War Mission: Lowlands DP
Let's hit them like a hammer! This risks a lot of Martial loss but some significant damage to the DP. And Negaverse SV would probably be having some "WTF?! These guys aren't weak!? Oh God everything is ON FIRE!" reactions if it goes well.
Or
[][Main] War Mission: Lowlands DP
[][Secondary] New Settlement: Lowlands
[][Secondary] New Settlement: Lowlands x2
This will recover some of the Econ cost with +2 Econ end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken. And begins attacking the DP outer territories for a probable loss of Martial and some damage to DP Martial, Econ and Diplo. Rather risky and the settlements would need to be reinforced.
This particular above Action Path should only be taken if we are in a good position to weather the costs , i.e 5+ Econ and greater than 1 Mysticism at the extreme end of the spectrum of costs. And we need to have the initiative. We do in our current and probably future situation as the Lowlands recover, the Econ is a clincher though.
Perhaps we can weather the costs by switching out one of the Study Rocks or War Mission Secondaries in step 2 for things that increase Econ like Black Soil. Keeping one War Mission in Step 2 of course. Maining Economy Expansion in Step 2 would help. With our likely Econ situation after this crisis turn is over we should be able to take one of the variations to this path if we wish. Stability would also be a problem. This can also be set up to be more defensive by replacing the War missions with Expand Economy or other + Econ actions.
Step 1:
[][Main] Study Rocks
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
This takes -3 Econ, gives a greater chance of metal insights, gives +1 Martial, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects. The nudging to copper weapons seems unlikely.
Or
[][Main] Study Rocks
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors x2
This takes -3 Econ, gives a greater chance of metal insights, gives +2 Martial and a chance for improving our standard warriors. The nudging to copper weapons seems unlikely. Maybe? Maybe not.
Step 2:
[][Main] Expand Warriors
[][Secondary] War Mission: Lowlands DP
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
This takes -1 Econ, gives us +2 Martial, potential additional effects for warriors, chance for metal insights, potential additional effects for econ. And begins raiding the DP outer territories for a potential loss of our Martial and some damage to DP Martial and Diplo.
This Action Path to attack the DP is more moderate and sustainable with only a -4 Econ cost at the most extreme and we gain +1 Stability. We also don't risk loosing as much Martial, and we set the DP on the path to a bad footing, war wise. They are already gonna be hurting from the plague.
Step 1:
[][Main] Establish Annual Festival
[][Secondary] Expand Holy Site
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
Takes -1 Econ, gives +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects from festival, +1 Mysticism, potential additional effects for econ.
Or
[][Main] Establish Annual Festival
[][Secondary] Expand Holy Site
[][Secondary] Expand Warriors
Takes -3 Econ, gives +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects from festival, +1 Mysticism, +1 Martial.
[][Main] Expand Holy Site
[][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
Takes -2 Econ, gives +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects from festival, +2 Mysticism, potential additional effects for econ, potential additional effects for Mysticism.
This Action Path is meant to get us out of a Stability slump like we will probably be in next turn. Some of the options also give Martial which will help protect us. The most sensible variant that gives us +2 Martial, +2 Stability and +1 Mysticism with -4 Econ and -2 Art.
I'm not going beyond three turns in these Paths because predictive measures fail at that timescale.
I'll think up some more soon but the thread seems to be moving again so I want this out there for all to see and think about.
To note, there is also the extra benefit of ensuring that the maximum amount of our People recieve immunization when we Main Settlement. We build too many settlements without holy sites, we are going to see reduced effectiveness of our warding.
How much good reputation we have to spend, is what this seems to be. We also spend it as a way to make or break ties. We have generally always had this high, I think. having it low would have uncertain but probably bad consequences. Among other things the other polities around us might start becoming really obstinate and dickish to us. Even more than they are now. Having it high though means we can make a lot of friends and diplo annex lesser minor tribes.
Economy
How much valuable stuff we have. In this age without real forms of currency and a barter system valuable things are; Food, Fancy dyed clothing, Cows, Dye, Colorful rocks, and a few other luxury items. We spend this like water. A very large portion of actions take some kind of Econ cost. We can get this with Trade Missions and by finding valuable things like the snails and the blue stone.
Martial
How killy we are. This is our military and fighting strength. Our Military tech also has something to do with it. Our recent importation of copper and some metal working secrets, if pursued will lead to great improvements here and put us on the leg up over our neighbors on this side of the Western Sea, the big body of water the Metal Workers are on the other side of.
We gain it by winning fights, lose it by losing fights, and can gain it by making new warriors or special elites. We also generally are very good at defending our homes.
Right, well, while I'm still reading this, I had to stop and point something out here. AN did actually come down and tell us what these stats mean. In a post, long, long ago.
Diplomacy is represented by the our external relations and ties. We have actually hit relatively low a few turns ago, in fact it is largely thanks to our diplo hero that we just skyrocketed. People weren't really happy with the whole nomad thing, and the ST decided to take a diplo hit as opposed to risking a stability hit.
Economy is specifically manpower and potential manpower. Things that increase food or such increase economy, while assigning population to non food tasks like shamans, decreases it. Fancy dyed clothing, dye, and colorful rocks do not change it.
Martial you mostly got right, but as has been mentioned before, that number is relative to our current levels of martial. Much like our points in econ are likely much stronger than other people's points in econ, our points in martial are likely much weaker than other peoples. We're closing that gap, but we still need to mind it.
Edit: Finished reading. You are also specifically forgetting the badlands settlement, which lets us take actually effective actions against and defensively towards the lowlands.
Stability is basically our HP in some ways. The analogy kinda falls apart on the higher Stability levels but we do know that hitting -4 at any time even briefly will end our civ. More generally this is how satisfied our people are. And high Stability has been shown to improve all of the actions we do.
This is also our stat which we burn to gain oodles and oodles of food and some tech with LoO. So useful to have it around +2 often so we can take the hit's without reaching 0 Stability, which is not neutral for us I think, and when the Really Big crises like this Comet show up we can survive having every one else freak out and come running to us and come out ahead.
Legitimacy
I'm not quite sure where this falls in. It seems to be a modifier and cap to our Stability as it represents our people's trust in the government. Having it maxed I think means that we are less likely to suffer from dropping Stability as it acts as a sort of armor, dampening the blow. Having it lower than max but not zero means we start to lose the protection and our Stability decreases along with it. At zero and negative Bad Thingstm will happen when we lose Stability as the losses probably get worse.
It is maxed now so we do not need to be overly concerned about it. And no actions here are very likely to make us lose it unless that is one of the ??? which I find as an unlikely possibility. Even Remain Home doesn't make us lose it, which is nice, and the action actually makes logical sense. The others make narrative or a different kind of logical sense. Or their logical matrix is just different.
Having these high for long periods will probably lead to population booms and cultural explosions as people screw each other silly and make luxury things because they feel safe doing so.
This is how well our leader can act and extend his power over the entirety of the country. It also represents how well our countries disparate parts communicate with the center and each other. Having it higher will probably give us more actions, at least secondaries and it will tell us more about what our Provinces are doing with themselves.
Having it lower means we become more disorganized, which is not totally bad. It's very much a double or three edged sword to have it low. The benefits I'm thinking having it low might give is that our lower chiefs start getting more actions to themselves and take actions that might on average improve our civ without our direction. They might not take the actions we really want them to though so having this high but not extreme is probably really damn good.
This falling to 0 or negative is probably lethal in some fashion at least with our current form of governance.
Hierarchy
A stat similar to Legitimacy this represents how many levels of bureaucratic organization between a tiny village chief and the King. I'm not sure if Centralization can go over this but having a high Hierarchy seems to mean we are having corruption problems. Small ones but it's there.
Having this around our centralization will probably help us know what most every one is doing. Since it also is a measure of our tradition it might help dampen the blow like Legitimacy does, and make the losses worse when it is lower.
A possibility is that having high Hierarchy is what is driving our math and writing development. Something to ask Academia Nut.
How much good reputation we have to spend, is what this seems to be. We also spend it as a way to make or break ties. We have generally always had this high, I think. having it low would have uncertain but probably bad consequences. Among other things the other polities around us might start becoming really obstinate and dickish to us. Even more than they are now. Having it high though means we can make a lot of friends and diplo annex lesser minor tribes.
Economy
How much valuable stuff we have. In this age without real forms of currency and a barter system valuable things are; Food, Fancy dyed clothing, Cows, Dye, Colorful rocks, and a few other luxury items. We spend this like water. A very large portion of actions take some kind of Econ cost. We can get this with Trade Missions and by finding valuable things like the snails and the blue stone.
Martial
How killy we are. This is our military and fighting strength. Our Military tech also has something to do with it. Our recent importation of copper and some metal working secrets, if pursued will lead to great improvements here and put us on the leg up over our neighbors on this side of the Western Sea, the big body of water the Metal Workers are on the other side of.
We gain it by winning fights, lose it by losing fights, and can gain it by making new warriors or special elites. We also generally are very good at defending our homes.
How well we use our luxuries and how many luxuries we have. How much pretty things we are making. I wonder if we will get a Michelangelo at some point. We can spend this by Proclaiming How Awesome we are to gain Stability, Legitimacy and possibly Prestige.
Mysticism
Our current Science stat. It also represents how many Shamans and Elders we have free to be doing research or other scholarly things. It definitely can mitigate potential Mysticism crises like the comet before this one or the plagues. Having at zero or below means our people are really easy to freak out when something strange and unexplained happens and our poor shamans are overworked.
Having it high means we can spend it on tech research and get ahead on the tech curve. it defends us from nasty event shocks from this one too. Possibly it also effects how mystical or strange we look to other folks around the place.
Prestige
How awesome and possibly mystical we seem to outsiders. Having it low means we are not all that famous and it probably doesn't affect our Diplo rolls, it might affect them negatively. Especially if the other side has it higher than we do, though they might not even have the stat at this point, maybe the DP do.
Having it high gives us some advantages. People might start coming to us and we gain an advantage in Diplo. We can bank on our fame a little to carry us through tough Diplo rolls, not much but every little bit helps.
Stability is a measure of popular faith in the government and leadership. In the sense that, should the people lose all faith in their leaders, they will rebel, then yes it is like HP. That said, positive and negative stability are generally not exclusively bad or good; they have incremental effect on different things in different time periods. Still, more stability is safer, considering the sheer amount of negative stability we can accrue at once. While it does have a minor effect on actions, it is not pronounced enough to be noticeable on a per-point basis (and thus, I would mark each stability point as a 5 point modifier to unknown, but appropriate action types that it would apply to).
Legitimacy is barely a full turn old as a statistic, but you've strongly confused it with Stability's role. If Stability a representation of general opinion towards the government and the current situation, then Legitimacy is trust and respect for the highest position of authority in particular. The more people are willing to put their faith in the king, the more likely they are to feel generally safe and protected. Mechanically, AN has never implied that it does anything for stability other than denote the maximum possible value of stability.
)I don't understand why people keep saying that having Stability very high or Legitimacy very high will magically give us stability hit resistance. That's not how it works. A stat does not contribute to it's own degradation resistance, that promotes recursive spam behavior and AN has noted that he's been cautious in preventing that in any direction)
Centralization has been described mostly accurately, but your mechanical assumptions are faulty. Centralization improves actions taken at the King level, it doesn't give us more. Centralization being represented as the amount of power that flows to the highest authority, the lower it is, the worse our agency is as players (as we represent the highest authority in voting), and the greater the agency of lesser elements of the state.
Hierarchy represents the number of levels and distinct branches our government is stratified into. Even if we only add a new province, which does not create new levels, merely expands existing ones with a new local branch, it increases Hierarchy. As hierarchy is almost literally translated to bureaucracy using this definition, Hierarchy represents how stable the government itself is in a crisis, it's ability to resist catastrophic upheaval in leadership through 'business as usual' contingencies and backup leaders at lower strata. Hierarchy grants (pointlessly) resistance to disease affecting government, the ability to take sudden leader losses in stride with minimal upset or troubled times, and, to a very limited degree, enables additional actions on the King level as direct oversight is phased out to designated overseers.
Diplomacy is represented by our trade goods, the trade goods we receive, and occasional goodwill events of note. It strongly affects how others respond to us, and we can use it as 'capital' to make unpopular international decisions. Going negative on diplomacy leads to the formation of coalitions against us as warmongers, monsters, or otherwise undesirable people.
(I honestly can't believe I have to say it for the eighth time... but,)
Economy is represented by our ability to leverage manpower, which becomes easier as our population increases and our farms are expanded. Economy is represented by our ability to leverage manpower, which becomes easier as our population increases and our farms are expanded. Economy is represented by our ability to leverage manpower, which becomes easier as our population increases and our farms are expanded.
Economy, in this era, is near-exclusively the amount of people we can direct to do work, and typically represents a quasi-permanent commitment of human labor to the continuance of the action that spent it in the first place. (Example: Expand Warriors takes a scaling quantity of our population, semi-permanently, into the profession of soldiering. It costs economy because the people who become warriors both no longer produce food themselves, and need a greater portion of the yearly harvests for themselves to strengthen their bodies.)
Military is the amount of force we are capable of projecting coherently. As our population expands, not only does our warrior class expand, but also our dedicated home guard. This means that even while population rises, the amount of force we can safely project is generally the same unless we make efforts to increase that. We also have learned from the ST's collapse that Military does not equal sheer quantity, and AN tracks quality/quantity-generated Military separately. Likely, as eras wear on and military tradition develops, discipline and manpower, the two core tenets of quality and quantity respectively, will be more easily differentiated in the stat post. It rises and falls generally not due to actual death counts, but due to gained or lost institutional knowledge, as highly skilled veterans and experts either die in failure, or are created in success.
Art is described as 'third kind' work, work that pleases and gives happiness. Generally, that would mean it is used to depict stories, events, and porn (is it really a surprise?). High Art is liable to kick off a philosophical golden era (at least in stone age terms of a golden era) as more and more ways of describing or depicting an event promotes a number of practices such as codified histories and more specific forms of pictography. Especially low and negative art values would represent major losses of historical knowledge or especially uniform art practices leading to a major cultural slump.
Mysticism is accurately represented.
Prestige is like a grab-bag of small boosts to things other statistics already do. It makes us appear more opulent and rich (Economy also does this, which is a negative thing as it means we need a higher Military rating to deter aggressive neighbors). It... makes us appear more opulent and powerful (Diplomacy, leveraged correctly, also does this, and makes us appear more appealing as an ally to others, assuming we don't appear more appealing as a target instead). It shows off the grand-mindedness of our leaders, which inspires the populace (something stability also does, but likely does much better than prestige). Overall, high or low prestige doesn't have an instant ooomph impact that we've seen.
Right, well, while I'm still reading this, I had to stop and point something out here. AN did actually come down and tell us what these stats mean. In a post, long, long ago.
Diplomacy is represented by the our external relations and ties. We have actually hit relatively low a few turns ago, in fact it is largely thanks to our diplo hero that we just skyrocketed. People weren't really happy with the whole nomad thing, and the ST decided to take a diplo hit as opposed to risking a stability hit.
Economy is specifically manpower and potential manpower. Things that increase food or such increase economy, while assigning population to non food tasks like shamans, decreases it. Fancy dyed clothing, dye, and colorful rocks do not change it.
Martial you mostly got right, but as has been mentioned before, that number is relative to our current levels of martial. Much like our points in econ are likely much stronger than other people's points in econ, our points in martial are likely much weaker than other peoples. We're closing that gap, but we still need to mind it.
Edit: Finished reading. You are also specifically forgetting the badlands settlement, which lets us take actually effective actions against and defensively towards the lowlands.
Thanks! I wasn't completely sure on some of these. Good to know about the relativity of the Martial and Econ scores.
I did talk a little about our Diplo being used to make and break ties and it makes obvious sense now that I think about it for it to be our existing ties as well. Whoops! Interesting to know we hit a low point with it recently.
About Econ not being changed by dyes and similar luxuries I thought there were instances where we found valuable things like the blue stone and our Econ went up? *shrug* Either way thanks for clarifying all of that.
I did straight up forget about the badlands settlement. I think it got filed in my mental map as being to our east towards where the ST used to be. One of my variants for the "Invading the Lowlands" Action Path has us going down into the Lowlands and making a settlement using two secondary actions. Mostly to recover from the Econ cost of previous actions. I do seem to remember reading that the Badlands Settlement will require a Main action to do but will be treated as a Secondary action because of the harsh environment.
I'll be coming out with more two and three step long Paths as we go along. If I was going to pick from the three I've described as of right now, I'd pick either the "We want to poke the Lowlands DP" or "To raise Stability and prepare".
Stability is a measure of popular faith in the government and leadership. In the sense that, should the people lose all faith in their leaders, they will rebel, then yes it is like HP. That said, positive and negative stability are generally not exclusively bad or good; they have incremental effect on different things in different time periods. Still, more stability is safer, considering the sheer amount of negative stability we can accrue at once. While it does have a minor effect on actions, it is not pronounced enough to be noticeable on a per-point basis (and thus, I would mark each stability point as a 5 point modifier to unknown, but appropriate action types that it would apply to).
Legitimacy is barely a full turn old as a statistic, but you've strongly confused it with Stability's role. If Stability a representation of general opinion towards the government and the current situation, then Legitimacy is trust and respect for the highest position of authority in particular. The more people are willing to put their faith in the king, the more likely they are to feel generally safe and protected. Mechanically, AN has never implied that it does anything for stability other than denote the maximum possible value of stability.
)I don't understand why people keep saying that having Stability very high or Legitimacy very high will magically give us stability hit resistance. That's not how it works. A stat does not contribute to it's own degradation resistance, that promotes recursive spam behavior and AN has noted that he's been cautious in preventing that in any direction)
Centralization has been described mostly accurately, but your mechanical assumptions are faulty. Centralization improves actions taken at the King level, it doesn't give us more. Centralization being represented as the amount of power that flows to the highest authority, the lower it is, the worse our agency is as players (as we represent the highest authority in voting), and the greater the agency of lesser elements of the state.
Hierarchy represents the number of levels and distinct branches our government is stratified into. Even if we only add a new province, which does not create new levels, merely expands existing ones with a new local branch, it increases Hierarchy. As hierarchy is almost literally translated to bureaucracy using this definition, Hierarchy represents how stable the government itself is in a crisis, it's ability to resist catastrophic upheaval in leadership through 'business as usual' contingencies and backup leaders at lower strata. Hierarchy grants (pointlessly) resistance to disease affecting government, the ability to take sudden leader losses in stride with minimal upset or troubled times, and, to a very limited degree, enables additional actions on the King level as direct oversight is phased out to designated overseers.
Diplomacy is represented by our trade goods, the trade goods we receive, and occasional goodwill events of note. It strongly affects how others respond to us, and we can use it as 'capital' to make unpopular international decisions. Going negative on diplomacy leads to the formation of coalitions against us as warmongers, monsters, or otherwise undesirable people.
(I honestly can't believe I have to say it for the eighth time... but,)
Economy is represented by our ability to leverage manpower, which becomes easier as our population increases and our farms are expanded. Economy is represented by our ability to leverage manpower, which becomes easier as our population increases and our farms are expanded. Economy is represented by our ability to leverage manpower, which becomes easier as our population increases and our farms are expanded.
Economy, in this era, is near-exclusively the amount of people we can direct to do work, and typically represents a quasi-permanent commitment of human labor to the continuance of the action that spent it in the first place. (Example: Expand Warriors takes a scaling quantity of our population, semi-permanently, into the profession of soldiering. It costs economy because the people who become warriors both no longer produce food themselves, and need a greater portion of the yearly harvests for themselves to strengthen their bodies.)
Military is the amount of force we are capable of projecting coherently. As our population expands, not only does our warrior class expand, but also our dedicated home guard. This means that even while population rises, the amount of force we can safely project is generally the same unless we make efforts to increase that. We also have learned from the ST's collapse that Military does not equal sheer quantity, and AN tracks quality/quantity-generated Military separately. Likely, as eras wear on and military tradition develops, discipline and manpower, the two core tenets of quality and quantity respectively, will be more easily differentiated in the stat post. It rises and falls generally not due to actual death counts, but due to gained or lost institutional knowledge, as highly skilled veterans and experts either die in failure, or are created in success.
Art is described as 'third kind' work, work that pleases and gives happiness. Generally, that would mean it is used to depict stories, events, and porn (is it really a surprise?). High Art is liable to kick off a philosophical golden era (at least in stone age terms of a golden era) as more and more ways of describing or depicting an event promotes a number of practices such as codified histories and more specific forms of pictography. Especially low and negative art values would represent major losses of historical knowledge or especially uniform art practices leading to a major cultural slump.
Mysticism is accurately represented.
Prestige is like a grab-bag of small boosts to things other statistics already do. It makes us appear more opulent and rich (Economy also does this, which is a negative thing as it means we need a higher Military rating to deter aggressive neighbors). It... makes us appear more opulent and powerful (Diplomacy, leveraged correctly, also does this, and makes us appear more appealing as an ally to others, assuming we don't appear more appealing as a target instead). It shows off the grand-mindedness of our leaders, which inspires the populace (something stability also does, but likely does much better than prestige). Overall, high or low prestige doesn't have an instant ooomph impact that we've seen.
Thanks for the info! Sadly, I read through all the story posts, started reading through the discussion and got through about the first hundred pages, before I started wanting to throw my hat in. A bit unwise, but hey this is actually a really really good story when the thread isn't imploding in salt and I felt compelled to share my thoughts at least a little.
I apologize for annoying you about the Econ flub? I did a lot of that post to try and clarify my own understanding of the mechanics.
I'm going back to quietly watching now till the next update drops, or I finish making more Action Paths. See ya!
Sorry. But almost literally everyone in the thread has, at one point or another, said something to the effect of 'economy is like barter and stuff, so our luxury trade goods make it higher.' The first time someone said that, we ended up committing to a massively econ negative turn back in the canal project, and people were actually confused as to why spending 3 econ in one turn didn't increase their economy.
I would like to do pretty much every damn thing I can to make sure that error in judgement doesn't propagate again.
Sorry. But almost literally everyone in the thread has, at one point or another, said something to the effect of 'economy is like barter and stuff, so our luxury trade goods make it higher.' The first time someone said that, we ended up committing to a massively econ negative turn back in the canal project, and people were actually confused as to why spending 3 econ in one turn didn't increase their economy.
I would like to do pretty much every damn thing I can to make sure that error in judgement doesn't propagate again.
I'm assuming people equated luxuries with econ, simply because they were thinking in terms of currency based economies. I don't doubt that once were evolve our economic model to involve the use of gold, silver, and copper coins that the luxuries we have access to will affect our econ score as well.
I'm assuming people equated luxuries with econ, simply because they were thinking in terms of currency based economies. I don't doubt that once were evolve our economic model to involve the use of gold, silver, and copper coins that the luxuries we have access to will affect our econ score as well.
I'm assuming people equated luxuries with econ, simply because they were thinking in terms of currency based economies. I don't doubt that once were evolve our economic model to involve the use of gold, silver, and copper coins that the luxuries we have access to will affect our econ score as well.
Exactly. The issue I have, and why I crack down so hard when I see people say that, is because AN had already told us that food=economy before we committed to that vote, and had to tell us three additional times when the currency-minded started assuming otherwise.
I bet we would be way better at it than them! They might have a skull wall, but we would have a skull dam, which is cool and intimidating and helps us!
I bet we would be way better at it than them! They might have a skull wall, but we would have a skull dam, which is cool and intimidating and helps us!
