- Location
- Sweden
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
To strengthen diplomatic tie and ensure that the Highland Kingdom doesn't collapse.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
We have trade with the metal miners neighbors, not the metal miners. Trade with the metal miners proper is likely to result in us gaining techniques in addition to (the currently inflowing) pre-made items.
You lack an appropriate understanding of Trojans. They weren't stupid, just uncautious. They'd seen the Greeks literally give up and sail away because they'd sucked so hard at invading Troy, and then people left a horse outside dedicated to Troy's big-ass goddess, Athena, and why would the Trojans be all "lol, we're going to let this appeal to the goddess stand, hated foe"? They wouldn't, so they took the horse in and didn't smack its sides or anything cus it's a dedication to a goddess. The Greeks were stupider because they came and spent ten years trying to invade a city solely cus they were irritated by the taxes it placed in trade in the area, for all that they used a personal grievance as an excuse. Lazy-ass sluggards.
Well, that and also the fact that our projective power is weak.
So your advice is to invade and conquer the steppes, reforming the nomad horde into responsible citizens?
That sort of makes sense, it's basically the HK issue in how it depends on self-interest.
No. That would be stupid.
- Location
- Austria
Ehh...
They are not explicitly time-limited, sure, but they are implicitly...well, our local chiefs are grabbing more power and this is a critical juncture in our history at the time period, where we kind of decide how much do we allow decentralisation to reign.
Or something like that. Point is - our civ is not going to be statically waiting while we are ignoring its decentralisation.
EDIT: And AN explicitly calls it 'further decentralization'.
It won't change the odds of them collapsing all that much, especially since Dead Priests can intercept the trade.
Last edited:
- Location
- Panama City
Bottom line: Order of operations for Nomads:
We don't trade with them, they raid: Well, we were planning to main expand warriors anyways, so while a secondary war mission sucks, we can econ to offset the drain from warriors, and then focus on econ, military, and stability, but we now have bonus Cnetralization for trails that we can use for annexing lowlands villages once the nomads get bored.
We Trade with them, they raid anyways:Welp, that was an action wasted! Otherwise, same deal as if we didn't trade with them.
We Trade with them, they don't raid. Cool! We can focus on military and econ actions, then plow into the lowlands combined with a trails action!
We Don't trade with them, the don't raid us:Even better! We already have +1 cent, so we can really focus on mil and econ, then plow into the lowlands!
We don't trade with them, they raid: Well, we were planning to main expand warriors anyways, so while a secondary war mission sucks, we can econ to offset the drain from warriors, and then focus on econ, military, and stability, but we now have bonus Cnetralization for trails that we can use for annexing lowlands villages once the nomads get bored.
We Trade with them, they raid anyways:Welp, that was an action wasted! Otherwise, same deal as if we didn't trade with them.
We Trade with them, they don't raid. Cool! We can focus on military and econ actions, then plow into the lowlands combined with a trails action!
We Don't trade with them, the don't raid us:Even better! We already have +1 cent, so we can really focus on mil and econ, then plow into the lowlands!
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Ignoring the HK causes problems because then their diplo isn't strengthened enough to adopt the lowland minors faster than the DP, which means the DP grows in power and races toward our lowland border faster, which means that when we want to go down there we'll have to fight and do it without an ally.
It's the nomad problem but where nomads are avaricious but hate a slow siege, the DP want land and will do what's needed to get it.
- Location
- Hell
Just like ignoring the Nomads would be.
Neithe will the Nomads and centralization isn't going to get any worse.
It would if we get them some diplomacy worth as well. That's why people are running to the Death Priests instead.
That.. Is not going to happen. There is only guarantee of raiding if we don't at least try to do something since they already know we're rich and I don't want to lose yet another secondary to War Mission until we managed to bulk up our Military first.
- Location
- Panama City
Well, I'd rather be pessimistic and say trade isn't going to do much to convince them to not go elsewhere with their raiding. Look, we have way to many plates in the air right now, so we need to focus on one or the other, and low centralization IS going to hurt us with our more distributed model. If we don't bulk it up, we could fly apart at the seams as provinces break away.
And if we don't prop up the Highlands Kingdom, they might get subsumed by the Dead Priests, and them we'd have a REAL fucking problem with the DPs at our doorstep, which makes the occasional nomad raids look like a fart in a windstorm.
And if we don't prop up the Highlands Kingdom, they might get subsumed by the Dead Priests, and them we'd have a REAL fucking problem with the DPs at our doorstep, which makes the occasional nomad raids look like a fart in a windstorm.
Last edited:
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
The positive side of the double-diplo action is that it uses our hero's diplo well (assuming he's not overly involved in the megaproject) and thus is more likely to get us a net +2 diplomacy. The downside is that AN DID prioritize decreasing decentralization. And if we do New Trails now, we can do [Main] Expand Warriors + Econ Expand + Trade Mission - Lowland Minors next turn or do the nomads instead, to take advantage of the heroic diplo, and the lowland minors the turn after, deciding when we've had the TM to the HK come back and inform us on the status in the lowlands.
New Trails thus seems more versatile and risks Econ more-or-less as much as doing it next turn would. For all that there's a risk in having a null diplo gain, splitting the Hero's attention is as risky.
Doing HK is more important to me because it slows the DP down and gives us more information on the situation. Slowing the DP down in turn means that we're more likely to be able to absorb the LLM later.
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
New Trails thus seems more versatile and risks Econ more-or-less as much as doing it next turn would. For all that there's a risk in having a null diplo gain, splitting the Hero's attention is as risky.
Doing HK is more important to me because it slows the DP down and gives us more information on the situation. Slowing the DP down in turn means that we're more likely to be able to absorb the LLM later.
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
Last edited:
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Sorry to hear about that, let us all take a moment to mourn our fellow quester.
.......
So did he leave anything for me in the will? Besides a demand we go for the lowlands?
And I will be changing my vote as well.
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
- Location
- Panama City
Guys, ignoring the HK is likely for them to get outraced by the DPs and absorbed! This would make the nomad problem look tame in comparison, since nomads get bored and go elsewhere while the DPs...won't.
- Location
- Austria
That's overly optimistic and assumes chiefs are not going to politick for increasing their own influence - and they will, it's even warned about in the description of the government type:
So no, I assume that they will be pulling the metaphorical blanket on themselves because that's how such governments tended to work historically.
True, but I am adamant about trails and the question for me is whether we should try to improve HKs Diplo or take the gamble of trying to make a long-ish peace-of-sorts with the nomads.
Chances of either to succeed sound pretty low, to be honest.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
- Location
- Panama City
Tough, we're likely to one way or the other. It's how nomads work.
- Location
- Sweden
What?
[] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
- Location
- Hell
Which is exactly my point. We need allies in the south to delay the Death Priests for us, we need allies in the North to delay Nomads for us. We aren't going to get a better chance than now for it as we have a Diplo Hero, and their gratitude (for the Thunder Horse at least) and Diplomacy 6 going on as well.
- Location
- Panama City
Well, technically with their sea neighbors(since they're up in the hills where the mines are), but since it's a trade route to them, yeah.
- Location
- Austria
We are not going to get allies in the North, not really, and local chiefs doing various shit is main and explicitly mentioned downside* of our government, ignoring which will only make the problem worse.
*upside too, but that's not what I am talking about atm
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
This seems to strongly imply that it's not a permanent oversea trade route with the Metal Workers in truth, not to mention the fact that it's "overseas" whereas the MW are inland and mountain-dwelling. If all we're interested in is buying metal tools, why would we choose to bring and/or rent carts and even more food so that we can buy from the MW in person? It's cheaper to buy it indirectly.
- Location
- Panama City
Meanwhile, our government(and by association our civ) implodes because the governors get ambitious, and we don't address that with centralization. It's in the description of the fucking government type dude.
- Location
- Hell
New trails wouldn't solve that. Only Restore Harmony and Authority action will.
And we won't get time to deal with them if we have to deal with the Nomads raiding at the same time.
Except Centralization 3 is not bad, new trails wouldn't stop our corruption problem only Authority and Restore Harmony will. You are exaggerating the danger, we have maxed Legitimacy right now, they aren't going to suddenly break us in half if we don't take New Trails this turn.