ABalloonyChaos
Drifts wherever the wind may take me.
- Location
- USA, up in the air.
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I'll be honest and say that while I'm 90% certain that where we send the TM dictates which group our Provincials start diplomatic ties with, I hope that they actually just move to trade with the coastal minors cus that is the least-risky involvement.
@Academia Nut Does the group we choose to send a Trade Mission to influence where the provincial chiefs send their hidden diplo mission? Does a diplo mission at that level cost 1 diplo and return 1-2, or does it cost less and return proportionally less? If the latter, will they be sending more than one at once or not?
@Academia Nut Does the group we choose to send a Trade Mission to influence where the provincial chiefs send their hidden diplo mission? Does a diplo mission at that level cost 1 diplo and return 1-2, or does it cost less and return proportionally less? If the latter, will they be sending more than one at once or not?
- Location
- Panama City
Except this is about the only time we can do this in the next 3+ turns, and in case you haven't been paying attention, AN doesn't go by strictly the stats to determine narrative effects. So if we do nothing to boost cent for 3 turns, then there's a good chance maxed legitimacy or not a governor or two decide THEY should be in charge and start a civil war, because we did nothing to stop them.
Also, AN never said that EA and RH are what combats corruption, that was speculation by @veekie which he never corroborated with AN.
Least risk, least reward. Keep in mind that our diplomatic ties, despite our diplomacy score, are basically nonexistent. Gaining diplomatic sway over our neighbors, while we have our diplomat hero, is of critical importance.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
For those interested ways to deal with nomadic problems, the Han empires pretty much have the most successful experiences for pre-industrial era.
It's basically using diplomacy/war fueled by centralized might of the entire empire to keep the nomadic tribes more focused on each other. Not foolproof, but better than most.
Han–Xiongnu War - Wikipedia
It has its own set of problems/costs but it work for a long time.
It's basically using diplomacy/war fueled by centralized might of the entire empire to keep the nomadic tribes more focused on each other. Not foolproof, but better than most.
Han–Xiongnu War - Wikipedia
It has its own set of problems/costs but it work for a long time.
- Location
- Panama City
We have too many neighbors to do that and too little actions.
Look, we're never going to get more than one or two missions before our leader dies, and this rush to do so is hurting our action economy. We need to pick one or the other, and then focus on a different action. We can then maybe do a diplo mission next turn.
- Location
- Austria
Explicitly contradicted by one of the updates:
Trails make it easier to communicate and thus control the chiefs.
So no, Trails are explicitly helpful in controlling chiefs, because in this age communications are the main bottleneck of governance.
We are not going to not be dealing with the nomads, long-term, this is only a delaying tactic not likely to actually work, while issues of our own civilisation are actually possible to realistically deal with.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I don't agree. Decentralization was specifically noted as an issue, and I feel that while a double-main RH & EA combo will turn us around (or kill us), it's better to not need that heavy hammer.
But also, the whole autonomous diplo mission thing *is* appealing... *sighs*
Yeah, but if we do it this way what do we lose? Are we *actually* going to 3 total diplo missions over this turn and the next? Are we *for sure* going to send a diplo mission to either the LLM or the CM?
Or are we going to do [Main] Expand Warriors + [Secondary] New Trails + [Secondary] Expand Economy? In such a case, we get exactly the same use of our Hero, but it's all at once and thus with divided attention. Assuming that heroic diplomacy means he goes himself, rather than somehow commuting it to a subordinate, it also means that our hero will be away from our seat of government for an extended period of time twice during his first turn of reigning.
- Location
- Panama City
They basically annexed the nomad tribes they conquered, and established dependent states. I don't see that working here
Not to mention they switched almost entirely to cavalry to counter the nomads, which I don't see us doing
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What the local chiefs do is influenced by the decisions of the king and the high council, but economic expansion seems to be a high priority for many.
- Location
- Panama City
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 589 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
Task: Secondary
[45][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
[30][Secondary] New Trails
[30][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[5][Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[3][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[2][Secondary] Expand Economy
[2][Secondary] New Settlement - Blue stone quarry
[1][Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Miners
Total No. of Voters: 60
Welp, we're now tied. AGAIN.
##### NetTally 1.7.4
Task: Secondary
[45][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
[30][Secondary] New Trails
[30][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[5][Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[3][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[2][Secondary] Expand Economy
[2][Secondary] New Settlement - Blue stone quarry
[1][Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Miners
Total No. of Voters: 60
Welp, we're now tied. AGAIN.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
I viewed it as template that showed us basic requirements for dealing with tribes.
All in all, build up econ -> big military spending -> subjugate closest tribes -> buffer next 1+ generations.
While it does not work right away and is cost heavy, the principle can be applied. (Course, we are at the moment involved in three way dipo/martial around former WC remnants.) Maybe if some Nomads decides to settle at ST area?
While I don't disagree with the core of your argument, our actual bottleneck is more logistics in general, with the possible addition of a better police force. Blackbirds would probably go a long way towards rooting out corruption, but we can't exactly afford that at the moment, can we?
Basically, it's going to take a lot of actions and no single action will solve the problem.
Also, as a friendly reminder to people. Behold, the true cost of megaprojects! Even more so than the massive econ and other such dump, it destroys our action economy! This would so not be a problem if we didn't have to do one. I would still say this one is likely worth it, though holy shit I hope the payoff is in my upper bounds of hope.
While I won't say trails doesn't need to happen, I would really like to point out that fostering diplomatic relations in general is very important and the sort of thing that not doing got people's teeth kicked in during olden times. Just, look, diplomacy's benefits aren't immediately obvious, but having sway over your neighbors is an incredibly powerful tool.
Well, I was going to say that expand economy should be left to our chiefs, but AN basically just answered that for me.
This, at least, encourages me that we should be able to afford main expand warriors next turn no matter what.
- Location
- Panama City
Best way to build up econ is to stick our nose in the lowlands, which precludes us from dealing seriously with the Nomads. Pick your poison dude.
- Location
- Panama City
@Academia Nut if the chiefs do Expand Economy, would we get the results of any extra effects as if we spend an action on it(such as possible farming innovations, for example?)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, it looks like we have winners, but since there has been a bit of movement away from a Highlands Kingdom trade mission I will give the thread another forty-five minutes before I lock fully.
- Location
- Panama City
Final tally for if nothing changes:
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 589 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
Task: Secondary
[46][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
[31][Secondary] New Trails
[30][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[5][Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[3][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[2][Secondary] Expand Economy
[2][Secondary] New Settlement - Blue stone quarry
[1][Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Miners
Total No. of Voters: 61
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 589 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
Task: Secondary
[46][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
[31][Secondary] New Trails
[30][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[5][Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[3][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[2][Secondary] Expand Economy
[2][Secondary] New Settlement - Blue stone quarry
[1][Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Miners
Total No. of Voters: 61
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And thus my only objection to expanding trails this turn disappears
I think i already voted for it but just in case:[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
[X][Secondary] New Trails
- Location
- Panama City
Yup, tally already had youAnd thus my only objection to expanding trails this turn disappears
[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
[X][Secondary] New Trails
- Location
- Hell
Where are you getting 3+ turns from?
I brought that up as well, but again it doesn't solve the problem
But this our final best chance to Diplo the Thunder HorseAnd thus my only objection to expanding trails this turn disappears
- Location
- Panama City
No, there may be other opportunities in the future for trade missions that won't immediately get nommed.
