If it's not reported where do you gain your evidence that it's so much worse and larger?
Also, the U.S.A is massive compared to Thailand, that means that similar numbers of prostitutes doesn't help your argument
I get my evidence that it's much worse and larger because of adjusted scores? And it's called relative population comparisons? Thx. Also, people have a bad image of prostitution in Thailand mostly because of bangkok, not the other cities.

[X] Regulate such activities.
[X] No - Unless AN says JUST A GIFT is okay.
[X] [Write In] Great Canal
[X] {Secondary} Step Farms
[X] {Secondary} Establish Annual Festival
 
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[X] Regulate such activities
[X] No
[X] [Write In] Great Canal
[X] {Secondary} Step Farms
[X] {Secondary} Establish Annual Festival
 
If it's not reported where do you gain your evidence that it's so much worse and larger?
Also, the U.S.A is massive compared to Thailand, that means that similar numbers of prostitutes doesn't help your argument
We know for a fact that Banning is much worse than regulation. Studies and similar situation with Alcohol, Drugs, animal hunting in Africa etc have shown that repeatedly.

It is an economy problem of supply and Demand. You can't solve a problem like that by attacking supply. It never works, all that does is incentives people to get creative when it comes to flaunting the law for power and money, which has the end result of weakening rule of law and authority.
 
The fact they had to trade their bodies for power instead of gaining it on merit just proves my point.
And the fact prostitution gave them power just shows my worries about corruption and validates them.
Wait, so when a guard trades his body for wealth it's a proof of his skill, but when a prostitue does the same it's nothing?

Also, I might have missed something, but I don't see anything in the update that suggests that only women prostitute themselves in this society.

.....wait why would they be cross with us?
There are multiple possible reasons:

A: We did not build enough monuments and have overall been lax in our vehemence of the supernatural.
B: The Spirit Talkers told them of various sins we may or may not have comitted.
C: The Spirits are dicks.
 
I'd rather bribe the wizards, honestly.
Notice that most votes for a main spirit building action AREN'T bribing the wizards?

Why have Dedicate be a main action &&&& send tribute??

It's basically asking for the spirit talkers to set up an enclave within us, and take over from there.
I'm thinking of it as the same thing as the Crow Tribe: if it's a peaceful, fairly equitable relationship, than who really loses? We gain advanced religion without having to work for it, they get a cut of our resources. Fair deal, as far as I'm concerned.

Currently our society allows women to be Elders, it also allows them some freedoms, allowing prostitution will force more and more women into the Industry and weaken the position of women in society. If stoping that isn't progressive to you I don't even...
I have a bit more faith in women's ability to maintain their own role in soceity, but we'll see.

...Ok, this conversation has blown way out of proportion, I think I'll sit the rest of this one out, thanks.
 
Have you read my post at all? The foundation of their power comes from their legitimacy and influence as the attendants of the Gods. Sex was another tool in their arsenal when it comes to making connections and the power struggles against the rising warrior casts of Kings, with which they could become even more powerful.
We have a merit based Kingdom so now warrior caste for them to need to fight against.
Also, sex shouldn't be another tool, they shouldn't have to bend over for power, the fact that you see that as alright to bring into our society is pretty bad.
Overall, again you are making my points. Prostitution will help hurt women's positions, women will sleep to the top or into power instead of gaining it via merit. As they do now. Women will eventually be expected to sleep their way to the top because that's what the other powerful women are doing, wether they want to sleep with a bloke or not.
We have a society at the moment where sex is for the good of the People, the collective, or for mutual attraction and affection. You want to make it for empty reasons, with a stranger for money, you want to undermine our people's general attitude towards sex, and you don't think it'll lead to hedonism later in?
 
There are multiple possible reasons:

A: We did not build enough monuments and have overall been lax in our vehemence of the supernatural.
B: The Spirit Talkers told them of various sins we may or may not have comitted.
C: The Spirits are dicks.
A. is why I advocate dedicate spirit as secondary action
B. I doubt it as spirits can see us for themselves I think and know spirit talkers are lying which would be bad for them
C. Maybe
 
We have a merit based Kingdom so now warrior caste for them to need to fight against.
Also, sex shouldn't be another tool, they shouldn't have to bend over for power, the fact that you see that as alright to bring into our society is pretty bad.
Overall, again you are making my points. Prostitution will help hurt women's positions, women will sleep to the top or into power instead of gaining it via merit. As they do now. Women will eventually be expected to sleep their way to the top because that's what the other powerful women are doing, wether they want to sleep with a bloke or not.
We have a society at the moment where sex is for the good of the People, the collective, or for mutual attraction and affection. You want to make it for empty reasons, with a stranger for money, you want to undermine our people's general attitude towards sex, and you don't think it'll lead to hedonism later in?
ummmm, question, you keep saying the women, but what about the men prostitutes?
 
[X] Regulate such activities
[X] No
[X] {Main} Dedicate Place to Spirits
[X] {Secondary} Expand Warriors
[X] {Secondary} Organize Settlement
-[X] Valley

Need a big action to satisfy those that would be pissed off about not paying tribute. Warriors are needed to defend against any migrant wave seeking to take land or if the spirit people get pissy about not getting tribute.
 
[X] Regulate such activities
[X] No
[X] {Main} Dedicate Place to Spirits
[X] {Secondary} Expand Warriors
[X] {Secondary} Organize Settlement
-[X] Valley
 
A: We did not build enough monuments and have overall been lax in our vehemence of the supernatural.
B: The Spirit Talkers told them of various sins we may or may not have comitted.
C: The Spirits are dicks.
I'm not sure I can entirely agree with this assessment.
We've hardly had formal contact with the Spirit Talkers, and they haven't even glanced at us, no diplomats telling us to get our shit together, no warning about us to other clans.
They don't seem to be bothered about us yet. Don't be too hasty with hurrying to kiss the spirits arse, we still don't know if they are truly real yet, it could easily be a fluke.
 
Notice that most votes for a main spirit building action AREN'T bribing the wizards?


I'm thinking of it as the same thing as the Crow Tribe: if it's a peaceful, fairly equitable relationship, than who really loses? We gain advanced religion without having to work for it, they get a cut of our resources. Fair deal, as far as I'm concerned.


I have a bit more faith in women's ability to maintain their own role in soceity, but we'll see.

...Ok, this conversation has blown way out of proportion, I think I'll sit the rest of this one out, thanks.
a) I was replying to votes where both were occurring.
b) I'm worried that the advanced religion that we might receive will give them undue influence over us.
c) I also just don't want religion to be a thing...

A. is why I advocate dedicate spirit as secondary action
B. I doubt it as spirits can see us for themselves I think and know spirit talkers are lying which would be bad for them
C. Maybe
We could just continue taking the approach that charity is what's necessary to appease the spirits.. or maybe that taking care of the land is.
Cause he doesn't realize that both are currently happening?
To be fair, male prostitutes are somewhat less common, though I've heard their numbers are steadily growing as customers gain faith in their service. Men never needed that faith.


How do people stand on the issue of Canal v Dam? @Academia Nut Can we do both, one after another?
 
Cause he doesn't realize that both are currently happening?
It's more that women are in a more vulnerable position in this society, there has been no women big men, hell its called big man, also there seems to be relatively few female elders, I'm worried that the women will face another downgrade from men in social status, and so have been focusing on the most vulnerable part of society at this time
 
Just a general reminder that Establishing Annual Festival would accomplish the same thing as Dedicate Place to Spirits in terms of making the people happier. There's also the possibility that the Spirit Talkers will see any religion that isn't theirs as an enemy.
 
[X] Regulate such activities
[X] No (high chance of social strife, mitigated by certain other choices)
[X] {Main}Organize Settlement [X] {Secondary} Dedicate Place to Spirits -[X] Valley
[X] {Secondary} Build Wall
-[X] Valley
 
Just a general reminder that Establishing Annual Festival would accomplish the same thing as Dedicate Place to Spirits in terms of making the people happier. There's also the possibility that the Spirit Talkers will see any religion that isn't theirs as an enemy.
point, we really do not know enough about the spirit talkers to base any plans around them besides their seeming ability to affect the weather
 
We have a merit based Kingdom so now warrior caste for them to need to fight against.
Also, sex shouldn't be another tool, they shouldn't have to bend over for power, the fact that you see that as alright to bring into our society is pretty bad.
Overall, again you are making my points. Prostitution will help hurt women's positions, women will sleep to the top or into power instead of gaining it via merit. As they do now. Women will eventually be expected to sleep their way to the top because that's what the other powerful women are doing, wether they want to sleep with a bloke or not.
We have a society at the moment where sex is for the good of the People, the collective, or for mutual attraction and affection. You want to make it for empty reasons, with a stranger for money, you want to undermine our people's general attitude towards sex, and you don't think it'll lead to hedonism later in?
If we regulate it we can control it. What you fear is far more likely to happen if we ban it, because then the central authority has no real power over how the situation evolves.

Sex will always be another tool for power. It has been in our past, and it is even in our times many women and men have to sleep into power or will use sex as another tool to gain more power. Banning changes nothing. Regulates makes things safer for women because then we can establish what can and cannot be done. And can actually have a hand in dealing with abuses.

And again Supply and Demand. You can't beat a situation like this by attacking Supply. It's just like how Prohibition actually increased alcohol sales and death by alcohol, and how the War on Drugs actually made illegal drugs more potent and the Drug Cartels richer and more powerful. So long as Demand exist, Supply will find a way, and banning only means that those who act illegally against the law stand to gain a ridiculous among of power, influence and wealth, and the legitimacy of our government will get heavily eroded.
 
I'm not sure I can entirely agree with this assessment.
We've hardly had formal contact with the Spirit Talkers, and they haven't even glanced at us, no diplomats telling us to get our shit together, no warning about us to other clans.
They don't seem to be bothered about us yet. Don't be too hasty with hurrying to kiss the spirits arse, we still don't know if they are truly real yet, it could easily be a fluke.
You still have to keep our people worried, so any gesture is good at this point. I'd say a dedicated place is better, since it doesn't bring us to the Spirit Talkers attention.
[X] Regulate such activities.
[X] No - Unless AN says JUST A GIFT is okay.
[X] [Write In] Great Canal
[X] {Secondary} Step Farms
[X] {Secondary} Establish Annual Festival
How does this plan deal with our people getting worried about angry spirits? Even if the Spirit Talkers don't make a move, or the spirits don't care, you still have to deal with the people who will be worried at the inaction.
 
If we regulate it we can control it. What you fear is far more likely to happen if we ban it, because then the central authority has no real power over how the situation evolves.

Sex will always be another tool for power. It has been in our past, and it is even in our times. Banning changes nothing. Regulates makes things safer for women because then we can establish what can and cannot be done. And can actually have a hand in dealing with abuses.

And again Supply and Demand. You can't beat a situation like this by attacking Supply. It's just like how Prohibition actually increased alcohol sales and death by alcohol, and how the War on Drugs actually made illegal drugs more potent and the Drug Cartels richer and more powerful. So long as Demand exist, Supply will find a way, and banning only means that those who act illegally against the law stand to gain a ridiculous among of power, influence and wealth, and the legitimacy of our government will get heavily eroded.
TLDR: If people want it, then they'll get it, no matter who says otherwise, and someone will always want it.
 
A. is why I advocate dedicate spirit as secondary action
But having it as our Main Action gives us more oomph, and given that we have ignored this option entirely so far I think we need that.

B. I doubt it as spirits can see us for themselves I think and know spirit talkers are lying which would be bad for them
We know literally nothing about the Spirits and what they like. We could have done over a thousand things to piss them off entirely by accident. As far as we know, they could be of the "the peoples were meant to be separate" type and are currently planning on going all Old Testament God on us for unifying.
Thankfully, the presence of rain makes it unlikely that they are worshipping an insane fire lion of death, that's always good.
 
Wonder if we are actually playibg against REAL people...like, AN posted this quest in other forums and we are being pitted against REAL people who made different choices...
 
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