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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Sec] Distribute Land
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x3
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x4
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x5
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x6
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x7
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x8
[x] [sec] Distribute Land x9

fuck it go all in
 
sidestory said:
No we control the king and through him the kingdom, we never controlled forces outside of him, at most we supported and were supported by forces outside of him, which of course made us act on their advice/knowledge, that however never meant that we controlled them
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Uh, I have already given several examples that disprove the idea that we have direct control of the king, one of which was insightfuled by AN.
Citino said:
What's easier for AN to show us:

"The king then decided X after listening to his advisors."

or

"The Patricians gathered the support of the priesthood, while also rallying the Urban poor to support them against the guilds and traders. They brought their petition to the king, who was then persuaded by a combination of well thought out arguments, the wide diversity of interests requesting it, and some good old fashioned bribes to grease the wheels"

The king is just the easiest way for AN to explain why the policies we chose went through, because it's easy to create a reason for a single man to do something, versus the entire kingdom. We've seen kings do something they explicitly don't want to do, and it almost always goes through not because the king has a change of heart, but because the king's hand is forced by either outside intervention or another faction backed by strong enough support.
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We have 2 major examples of the king not wanting to do something, and then some event happening that forces them to do so anyways due to our wishes.

1. The charioteer heir, who got killed by an accident (Or 'Accident' if you're cynical) before he could take power and surprise everyone by not taking a single thing that he was stated to want to do.

2. Our Admin Genius, who was very much against the war, but was forced to go to war by the campaigns of the priests. He was shown to continuously not want to support the war, and tried again and again to end it, but was blocked each time when we decided to go onwards.

For both of these, it was clearly not control of the king that forced policy change, which strongly implies that we are in charge of the kingdom as a whole, rather than a single man.

However, normally the narrative is simplified by AN just saying 'And then the King decided X', so it appears that we control the king usually.

But kings are noted to have personalities of their own, and have in fact chosen to do things that have shocked us without input.

Looking at you, Phygrif.

As to your over arching concerns,

sidestory said:
In fact why even offer us the possibility of a civil war if we have no chance at winning at all,
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If AN didn't offer us the chance to resist through civil war, no matter how unbalanced that civil war is, then you would be right to complain about him railroading us.

Note that the decision here isn't 'You must do DL'. Instead, we are given a choice of 'Do DL' or 'Don't do it, get a ton of people killed for nothing, and then have DL installed.'

That is very much in line with how RL situations have worked. There is not always a solution to a problem, other than to wait. History is full of rulers or civilizations doing something that they know is a bad idea, just because not doing it is an even worse idea. That's the situation we face here. We can choose to fight the inevitable, or we can give in and make sure we have some control over what happens.

Honestly, the fact that we've gotten away with no private land for as long as we have is only due to our stone age momentum carrying over into our government. There is literally no other histroical example that I know of that managed to avoid land ownership like we have, and even with all the momentum we managed to build up, there was going to come a point where it just wouldn't be enough. We've just finally reached that point due to DGE.

tl;dr AN is very fair in what he's done, and we don't actually control the king.
 
PrimalShadow said:
What is the point of doing a Main repair rather than a secondary? Doesn't seem like it is worth it, from the descriptions:
*S: -5 Econ, -3 Tech, -2 Wealth, +4 EE, +2 Econ next turn, mine output restored, other effects
*M: -6 Econ, -4 Tech, -3 EE, +5 EE, +4 Econ next turn, mine output restored, other effects
So we pay 1 Econ, 1 Tech, and 3 LTE right now to save 2 Wealth and get back an extra 1 EE and an extra 2{Econ + LTE} next turn. Not exactly a bargain. At best, maybe there are benefits hidden under "other effects" - but that doesn't sound like it is the best use of our time right now.
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Narrative of "they suffered from disaster, we must throw as much as reasonable into helping them recover ASAP". I think maintaining and reinforcing this part of Ymaryn culture is important.
 
[X] [Merc] Yes

[X] [Agenda] Sea Control
[X] [Guild Sec] Art Patronage

[X] [Sec] Enforce Justice
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X] [Sec] More Warships
[X] [Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Sec] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
[X] [Sec] Develop Intrigue Web
 
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Malevolo said:
We need to evolve division of power so we can be able to suppress them again.
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I am not sure if this is how it works and I suspect value conflict will be inevitable.

10ebbor10 said:
It was mostly dead the moment people voted for to liberate the half-exiles.
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I think it's a good trade-off. We just need to make sure that the rural patricians won't get away with not paying half-exile or cheating them out of their pays.
 
Citino said:
Honestly, the fact that we've gotten away with no private land for as long as we have is only due to our stone age momentum carrying over into our government. There is literally no other histroical example that I know of that managed to avoid land ownership like we have, and even with all the momentum we managed to build up, there was going to come a point where it just wouldn't be enough. We've just finally reached that point due to DGE.
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And let's not forget two things:
1) It was effectively happening already, just not official. The entire concept behind the Patricians is "having enough connections to effectively own stuff".
2) The enabling of 1) was due massive corruption, which we've struggled with since forever.

We had a chinese-style bureocracy, and much like the chinese, the guy deciding if your son gets to keep the house you built is also the guy that brings the beer on your weekend bbq.
 
8bitBob said:
@Academia Nut

What happens if we're on Megaproject Support and manage to finish all currently active projects? Does it turn off automatically?
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All active projects: It gives us one turn to start a new megaproject. If we don't, it acts like Balanced but without a doubling from The Law. After that turn, it gives us a free switch to a different policy.

All possible projects: It immediately gives us a free switch.
 
Marlin said:
[X] [Merc] Yes

[X] [Agenda] Sea Control
[X] [Guild Sec] Art Patronage

[X] [Sec] Enforce Justice
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X] [Sec] More Warships
[X] [Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X] [Sec] Governor's Palace (Level 1)
[X] [Sec] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
[X] [Sec] Develop Intrigue Web
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I can understand not voting for distribute land, but what do you have against completing the urban poor quest and locking in division of power?
 
DakkaMania said:
What are Alyx (and his advisors) suggestions on limiting potential abuses of Distribute Land by the Patricians (like them smashing the Distribute button until the whole Empire is carved up between them)

What is the Urban Patricians problem with DL? How does it affect cities (or what do they believe)?

Would the Landholders power be diminished by more cities/more powerful Guilds?

What is Alyxs recommendation to fight the Tech Crunch at it's root? More Academies or Palaces?

If Actions cost tech, does that mean that narratively the Guilds gain influence through it as they are the representatives of the Tech people? Would that, in turn, mean that the Guilds will become anti-Slavery to protext that political power now that they have become even more powerful?

What does Alyx think is a good way to keep the Patricians under control of the Crown? Which factions are most likely to be a counterweight to the Patricians ambitions?

With more Temples being built, are the Blackbirds moving back under their control?

Is Divinely Glorious Elites an Ymaryn take on Mandate of Heaven, just with an eye towards unquestioning obedience as long as those on the top don't demonstrate incompetence?

Is Alyx in fact an expy for Alexanders father, and Shunmyn is the actual Not!Alexander (because his attitude reads like 'Have Army, will campaign!' with very little regard for anything else)
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1. Dunno, never done it before.

2. It makes the Rural Patricians stronger while they stay in the same place because they don't really have land like that. Thus they are opposed to this loss of relative power.

3. Dunno. Relative power will probably swing in favour of the rural areas, but given that 85-90% of the population is rural they already have a lot of intrinsic power, even if the most active political elements are urban.

4. Yes?

5. Maybe?

6. Never really left priest influence

7. No

8. Possibly. But yes, Shunmyn is far less likely to wage war only for practical reasons and limited goals.
 
highs2lows said:
It was fun while it lasted
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DL is not the end of the Ymaryn, you know. We didn't take it because it makes things harder for us to manage, not because it will suddenly lead to a collapse or because it turns our civ into assholes somehow.

Hell, we haven't even seen how the DL is going to work. I seriously doubt we're going to find ourselves becoming a feudal society in a generation or 3.

Like, the worries I hear are that the Patricians are going to slam the DL button, but we know that slaming buttons is a bad thing. Do you really think that the Patricians won't suffer if they try slamming a button as well?

Like, consider if they do it, and thus force us to EJ every turn. I could see the narrative forming that the King slowly starts trading land for traditional noble rights over time, meaning that even as they gain power through land, they lost power politically.

There is no way that we won't adapt a solution if DL is spammed by the Patricians. Hell, it's even possible that we could see a break in the Patricians, as the Urban Patricians get more and more pissed at the rural ones using their faction to strengthen themselves at the cost of the urban.
 
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land
[X] [Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] Enforce Justice
[X] [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Sec] More Warships
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage
[X] [Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X] [Guild Sec] More Warships
[X] [Agenda] Sea Control
[X] [Merc] Yes
 
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