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Paths of Civilization

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Redium said:
It might be worth trying to force our Infrastructure policies to build a Governor's Palace next turn. It only costs 3 Econ and 3 Culture to get three progress which could then be picked up and completed by our current suite of policies in a single turn.
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Three Econ, Three Culture, and a secondary action. I suspect that of all of these, the biggest problem is going to be with the secondary; we are going to be too busy setting up free cities and switching our policy off of offensive and restoring stability and wait-all-of-our-actions-are-suddenly-gone.

Other than that, when we have a free action I'd happily toss it at a GP; there is certainly value there for us.

Redium said:
Add a [Main] Redshore Aqueduct and our policies could deal with that issue too.
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Spending an entire Main on this is exceedingly painful. And honestly, why do we need to? An aqueduct like that is one of the most likely things for our infrastructure policies to start on their own.

Redium said:
Considering everyone is chomping at the bit to Build Roads, it may be worth looking at building more GPs to increase our connectivity cap for centralization.
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Our Connectivity cap is the last thing we need to worry about; we are so far from it that it isn't funny. All that it does immediately is raise how many roads we get Cent for, and if we are mass-building roads we don't WANT to be getting excess Cent for it.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Three Econ, Three Culture, and a secondary action. I suspect that of all of these, the biggest problem is going to be with the secondary; we are going to be too busy setting up free cities and switching our policy off of offensive and restoring stability and wait-all-of-our-actions-are-suddenly-gone.

Other than that, when we have a free action I'd happily toss it at a GP; there is certainly value there for us.
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We are going to have at least 4 Secondary actions next turn after we get the government upgrade and enter cut time. AN's also indicated that every non-Free True City we have will also give us an extra action.

Academia Nut said:
4 player controlled secondary actions + 1 per non-Free True City or something like that (player controlled actions are actually easier to vary from turn to turn than passives, so I think something like this will work better)
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As long as that holds true, we can fit it in easily since we want to have at least 3 non-Free Cities for next turn. Even if it doesn't, if the war goes well and we peace out, we can still fit it in with only 4 Secondary actions by going on Megaproject Support. Given that the Factions are going to steal some of our Province actions, we may not need to worry about starting a GP. I'm sure the Patricians will be all over that to start building them to ensure there are more possible posts for their children to earn.

PrimalShadow said:
Spending an entire Main on this is exceedingly painful. And honestly, why do we need to? An aqueduct like that is one of the most likely things for our infrastructure policies to start on their own.
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Remember last time we didn't build an Aqueduct when Redshore built a higher level Ironworks? We almost ate a Stab hit because they were complaining about everything being dirty. Additionally, our cities are a major source of plauge and we're probably fairly susceptible to one right now. Mass Levy turning off is going to mean hundreds of thousands of men go back to their cities after being exposed to foreign germs from all across the empire. We rolled really badly for disease and had a large fever kill a lot of soldiers; sickness is probably going to spike in the general population as those people go home and bring their germs.

Thinking about the Aqueduct, though, we may not need to do it. Aqueducts is an [Urban] action so if the Urban Poor really want it, they can build it with the actions they're likely to receive since we have so many cities or their allotment of the Faction track.

PrimalShadow said:
Our Connectivity cap is the last thing we need to worry about; we are so far from it that it isn't funny. All that it does immediately is raise how many roads we get Cent for, and if we are mass-building roads we don't WANT to be getting excess Cent for it.
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Err... that's apparently not how Connectivity cap works. There's apparently a cap for how much the cap can go up.

Academia Nut said:
Build Roads [Yeomen] - New roads can better tie the people together, so more could be useful. (21/55) +7 Centralization Tolerance (Max additional tolerance for government reached)
* S: -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, -1 Tech, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
* M: -3 Econ, -4 Wealth, -2 Tech, +2 Centralization, +2 Diplo, other effects
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Our Connectivity is apparently maxed out for our government type. That could change if we go to Late Classical Kingdom or Early Post Classical, but it's still something to note.
 
Redium said:
Our Connectivity is apparently maxed out for our government type. That could change if we go to Late Classical Kingdom or Early Post Classical, but it's still something to note.
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Well, sorta. The 21/55 is our Connectivity and our Connectivity cap is 55(if that number is even accurate), while what is maxed out right now is our Bonus Cent Tolerance cap.
 
Susano said:
Which costs resources and an action slot. A marriage is a way to heighten loyalty without that. Whereas a marriage with the Storm Ymaryn gains us... what exactly?
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Where are you getting the idea that an Influence Subordinate action, on the Forhuch, is avoidable? It isn't. Even if we get max loyalty from marrying the Forhuch we still have to use Influence Subordinate, so they don't start a civil war when Not!Alexander dies. Do you actually believe that they will allow someone who is not Not!Alexander's descendant, if he marries the Forhuch wifu, to take the position of King without an Influence subordinate action? They are nomads that are just beginning civilization. Become King because being King is in your blood is expected. Becoming more like the Forhuch until the Ymaryn are the Forhuch might be something they expect, and we would need to use Influence subordinate if that is true to prevent them further from creating strife among the Ymaryn.

A marriage with the Storm Ymaryn gives us a connection with the Storm Ymaryn. We actually get to see what they are like after they split from the Ymaryn, and got conquered by nomads, then supplanted the leaders of the nomads with the Ymaryn administration. This gives us a trade connection with our Western colonies, something we need more of. If we are on their good side, the Storm Ymaryn might make the trade route safer. We are lacking in high Naval abilities, and faster ships. The storm Ymaryn connection through our leaders would help us assimilate the Storm ymaryn which is a goal I want to complete because they have that econ vampiric trait which is a problem for us because Gilded Ages are easy to generate for the Ymaryn. -1 Stability loss every turn IIRC from Gilded Age.

The speculation on what we might gain from the Storm Ymaryn:
- A badass Hero born from combining the Storm Ymaryn and the Ymaryn. Whom might possibly unite the two groups inside of one generation. ( I got this idea from AN who hinted that we might be able to generate someone exceptional by joining with the Storm Ymaryn who have a Hero in charge with a descendant. The Forhuch no longer have any heroes, so they can't possibly give this if we choose them.)
- We would use a Influence Subordinate through the Storm Ymaryn wedding, or the Forhuch wedding. There is nothing the Forhuch can give us that is wroth choosing them in a marriage. (I'm saying this is speculation because no one seems to agree with me that an Influence Subordinate action is a guarantee in either choice)
- The Storm Ymaryn would possibly aid us in the fight against the Highland Kingdom if we become more closely tied. (pure speculation and guesswork. I have nothing to support this)
 
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Marlin said:
Where are you getting the idea that an Influence Subordinate action, on the Forhuch, is avoidable? It isn't. Even if we get max loyalty from marrying the Forhuch we still have to use Influence Subordinate, so they don't start a civil war when Not!Alexander dies. Do you actually believe that they will allow someone who is not Not!Alexander's descendant, if he marries the Forhuch wifu, to take the position of King without an Influence subordinate action? They are nomads that are just beginning civilization. Become King because being King is in your blood is expected. Becoming more like the Forhuch until the Ymaryn are the Forhuch might be something they expect, and we would need to use Influence subordinate if that is true to prevent them further from creating strife among the Ymaryn.

A marriage with the Storm Ymaryn gives us a connection with the Storm Ymaryn. We actually get to see what they are like after they split from the Ymaryn, and got conquered by nomads, then supplanted the leaders of the nomads with the Ymaryn administration. This gives us a trade connection with our Western colonies, something we need more of. If we are on their good side, the Storm Ymaryn might make the trade route safer. We are lacking in high Naval abilities, and faster ships. The storm Ymaryn connection through our leaders would help us assimilate the Storm ymaryn which is a goal I want to complete because they have that econ vampiric trait which is a problem for us because Gilded Ages are easy to generate for the Ymaryn. -1 Stability loss every turn IIRC from Gilded Age.

The speculation on what we might gain from the Storm Ymaryn:
- A badass Hero born from combining the Storm Ymaryn and the Ymaryn. Whom might possibly unite the two groups inside of one generation. ( I got this idea from AN who hinted that we might be able to generate someone exceptional by joining with the Storm Ymaryn who have a Hero in charge with a descendant. The Forhuch no longer have any heroes, so they can't possibly give this if we choose them.)
- We would use a Influence Subordinate through the Storm Ymaryn wedding, or the Forhuch wedding. There is nothing the Forhuch can give us that is wroth choosing them in a marriage. (I'm saying this is speculation because no one seems to agree with me that an Influence Subordinate action is a guarantee in either choice)
- The Storm Ymaryn would possibly aid us in the fight against the Highland Kingdom if we become more closely tied. (pure speculation and guesswork. I have nothing to support this)
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Storm Ymaryn are too far away to help with the Highland Kingdom.
 
By the way, there is one obstacle to the millennium of forests plan: if I'm reading it correctly, Expand Forest is LTE-positive. So after enough turns, it would pop every city.
 
Marlin said:
Where are you getting the idea that an Influence Subordinate action, on the Forhuch, is avoidable? It isn't. Even if we get max loyalty from marrying the Forhuch we still have to use Influence Subordinate, so they don't start a civil war when Not!Alexander dies. Do you actually believe that they will allow someone who is not Not!Alexander's descendant, if he marries the Forhuch wifu, to take the position of King without an Influence subordinate action? They are nomads that are just beginning civilization. Become King because being King is in your blood is expected. Becoming more like the Forhuch until the Ymaryn are the Forhuch might be something they expect, and we would need to use Influence subordinate if that is true to prevent them further from creating strife among the Ymaryn.
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These two pieces "Do you actually believe that they will allow someone who is not Not!Alexander's descendant, if he marries the Forhuch wifu, to take the position of King without an Influence subordinate action" and "They are nomads that are just beginning civilization. Become King because being King is in your blood is expected" are partially contradictory. They will allow a king descended from ALyx to rule over them if he has their blood. That is not in question. Whether or not they cause issues which require an Influence is up in the air though, and personally I want to do it anyway since it is good practice.

Marlin said:
Where are you getting the idea that an Influence Subordinate action, on the Forhuch, is avoidable? It isn't. Even if we get max loyalty from marrying the Forhuch we still have to use Influence Subordinate, so they don't start a civil war when Not!Alexander dies. Do you actually believe that they will allow someone who is not Not!Alexander's descendant, if he marries the Forhuch wifu, to take the position of King without an Influence subordinate action? They are nomads that are just beginning civilization. Become King because being King is in your blood is expected. Becoming more like the Forhuch until the Ymaryn are the Forhuch might be something they expect, and we would need to use Influence subordinate if that is true to prevent them further from creating strife among the Ymaryn.

A marriage with the Storm Ymaryn gives us a connection with the Storm Ymaryn. We actually get to see what they are like after they split from the Ymaryn, and got conquered by nomads, then supplanted the leaders of the nomads with the Ymaryn administration. This gives us a trade connection with our Western colonies, something we need more of. If we are on their good side, the Storm Ymaryn might make the trade route safer. We are lacking in high Naval abilities, and faster ships. The storm Ymaryn connection through our leaders would help us assimilate the Storm ymaryn which is a goal I want to complete because they have that econ vampiric trait which is a problem for us because Gilded Ages are easy to generate for the Ymaryn. -1 Stability loss every turn IIRC from Gilded Age.

The speculation on what we might gain from the Storm Ymaryn:
- A badass Hero born from combining the Storm Ymaryn and the Ymaryn. Whom might possibly unite the two groups inside of one generation. ( I got this idea from AN who hinted that we might be able to generate someone exceptional by joining with the Storm Ymaryn who have a Hero in charge with a descendant. The Forhuch no longer have any heroes, so they can't possibly give this if we choose them.)
- We would use a Influence Subordinate through the Storm Ymaryn wedding, or the Forhuch wedding. There is nothing the Forhuch can give us that is wroth choosing them in a marriage. (I'm saying this is speculation because no one seems to agree with me that an Influence Subordinate action is a guarantee in either choice)
- The Storm Ymaryn would possibly aid us in the fight against the Highland Kingdom if we become more closely tied. (pure speculation and guesswork. I have nothing to support this)
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I doubt anyone less than a Double Genius could handle the administrative innovations required to tie us together in a generation. Additionally it is inaccurate to say that the Forhuch have no possibility to give us a Hero. That is up to a roll and could well happen. It is simply the case that the Storm Ymaryn think they can provide a higher chance of Hero Generation, and besides that they would want to poach the Hero so we don't get them.

Like I said I don't really care about the Influence, since I plan to do it anyway. As to what the Forhuch give? Themselves. Which means:
A secure Eastern Border.
Support to The Memory of Spirits.
Support to Thunder Horse.
Cavalry tech.
A more tightly bound Empire when they are quite literally one of our most distant vassals.

The Storm Ymaryn cannot help us in any way. They have neither the time with their wars, nor the sea lift capability. Also they may or may not ask us to help them in their wars and I don't particularly feel like helping them do that.
 
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ThrawnCA said:
By the way, there is one obstacle to the millennium of forests plan: if I'm reading it correctly, Expand Forest is LTE-positive. So after enough turns, it would pop every city.
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We can burn off LTE fairly easily. Most Plant Cash Crops options are LTE-negative. Extensive Forestry stuff just means we'll have LTE space for more Wealth generation via agriculture.
 
ThrawnCA said:
By the way, there is one obstacle to the millennium of forests plan: if I'm reading it correctly, Expand Forest is LTE-positive. So after enough turns, it would pop every city.
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All additional infrastructure increases the LTE that a city pops at. We will most likely be building faster than the forests can generate LTE.
 
Why are there a surge of people voting to marry the Storm Ymaryn princess?

Has lord Nut made some comment on that debacle I am not aware of?
 
The SY can help us through more deeply fostered trade ties and a decreased pull on our colonies. But, frankly, I trust them less than they can swim.
 
...just musing here folks.

How well would the Ymaryn fare, as of several points up to the latest post, if it's ISOT'ed to the modern world? Can the Ymaryn survive as a polity if we are making them survive through quest decisions?
 
kilopi505 said:
...just musing here folks.

How well would the Ymaryn fare, as of several points up to the latest post, if it's ISOT'ed to the modern world? Can the Ymaryn survive as a polity if we are making them survive through quest decisions?
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Considering our well-developed philosophical basis, wide variety of luxuries, decent grasp of medicine, and relatively plentiful forests, yes.
We could sell them "native" goods, convert some wiccans to our religion and get them to donate textbooks and computers to us, and export gold and lumber. Our priest caste is interested enough in learning that they would make the transition easy. Probably our guilds would falter if we didn't institute relatively harsh trade restrictions.
 
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