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The absence of trees ranked along with the area's lack of oxygen, extreme cold and geographic isolation as top reasons for the mental breakdown of Chinese military personnel in this city 4,500 metres above sea level. Soldiers from Nagqu who would go to Lhasa on leave were known to leap off their buses to hug a tree, in tears, according to the People's Liberation Army Daily.

Now China is taking the unprecedented – and expensive – step of harnessing solar power to melt permafrost to allow trees to grow in Nagqu.

The project's aim is to make the landscape more welcoming for Han settlers and soldiers struggling to cope emotionally with the treeless setting.


It means that all the shitty action costs were pointless waste of time and now every neighbour gets free access to concrete, advanced ironworking (inb4 they net steel out of our ironworking experience), embroidery, catamaran tech, biremes, advanced gold purifying thing via mercury and basically we are ceding the comparative advantage from PK.
Doesn't work like that. The whole point is that we have technology advanced enough that seeing the finished product doesn't give you any ability to make it. You can see concrete, but the guilds keep the kilns ad formulas a closely held secret. Same goes for iron and embriodery. They don't have the tools to make the tools to make the product.

That matches with them getting an innovation once every few centuries. We should also already be getting the benefits of military and tactical advances from the normal games, as that's what they're all about. The Artisan games won't show us how to command a Phalanx.
We have, but they aren't bringing their military equipment to show off(because the Games aren't based on their gear enough to do so), and we know that we're getting very few military tech innovations because there's no drivers for our martial innovation.

So we're getting SOME tactical advances, but we need them to show off their biggest swords and fanciest armor to copy the idea.
We all share the results. That means each of us gets stuff, not that we get everything and they sit around being confused.

If anything, this diminishes the value of our natural tech stealing abilities, as there will be 3 sides from which we can't steal anything.
Not true. For instance, we put out a fine yellow dye made from sulfur and lime. The Storm Ymaryn might have enough of an alchemical tradition to figure it out, but the Harmurri and Freehills lacks the prerequisites to understand it. We make a wavy pattern welded straight sword and...how on earth are anyone without hammer mills going to make any of that economically?

Thats the point of the infrastructure statement. We have level 3 ironworks, which means some of our tech rolls will require ironworks of similar development to be feasible. They will of course, gain a lot, but at the same time as the infrastructure final boss of the region nearly anything they make we can potentially copy once we know its possible.

At the very least it stoppers the ancient chinese isolationism trap.
 
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Smiths work overtime! (-2 Tech/turn but can meet demand for trade)
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top up Wealth)

Small kick, gotta WAAAGGGHHH!
 
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Smiths work overtime! (-2 Tech/turn but can meet demand for trade)
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top up Wealth)

Small kick, gotta WAAAGGGHHH!
But if you gotta WAAAGGGHHH, why do the small kick? Kick harder, and drown any who oppose in bolts, bodies and blood. We'll sure need it against the enemy cavalry horde, and maybe HK.
 
I'm not sure we can afford that many kicks?
We're at 1. 1 kick is 0.
Maybe lose 1 more stab from war losses, and we're at -1.
Safety margin if 2.
Well, next phase is midturn where we may have a react action to raise stability, and even with two kicks we would need to lose two stability to reach truly dangerous zone. With more War Missions, I think we have a better chance of not losing stability in the first place and getting out of this war before main turn. Plus, if there's time to risk things, 10+ horde with probably Heroic Martial sounds like it.
 
But if you gotta WAAAGGGHHH, why do the small kick? Kick harder, and drown any who oppose in bolts, bodies and blood. We'll sure need it against the enemy cavalry horde, and maybe HK.

Because we are at 0 with one kick, and would go into the negatives with more, and given all the problems we have currently I really do not want us to add to them with negative stability.

And depending on how things go we might get into the negatives even further.

I were far happier with the 2 stability kick if we had stability to spare.
 
Also, giving the regional technology turbo-boost is going to create interesting problems in our neighbors to deal with, instead of us shouldering all the risk of technological development.
 
What do people want to do with our reaction action next turn? I'm thinking raise stability if we are at negatives, or a main war mission if we at neutral.
 
I'm not sure we can afford that many kicks?
We're at 1. 1 kick is 0.
Maybe lose 1 more stab from war losses, and we're at -1.
Safety margin if 2.

Yeah, but fucking nomads. Like really. And. Aaaand our vassals have not been doing any army-increasing actions las turns!
So we are going to shoulder all the burden of war here.

This is the case where if we win I am pushing for conquest and maximum aggression. Why? We need to control eastern passes to Lowlands so that we can stop next iteration of fucking nomads in the mountains. MH being aggressors opens them up for conquest if we can do it.
Besides, in the mountains their cavalry won't be much good against infantry levies.
 
Because we are at 0 with one kick, and would go into the negatives with more, and given all the problems we have currently I really do not want us to add to them with negative stability.
Negative stability is bad, but it's not literally Satan. There's no need to fear it so. With two kicks now, we will have +2 war missions for the whole turn, enough men out there to bring almost any battle to at least enemy Pyrrhic victory. Then we can concentrate on raising stability. I just really doubt that one kick will be enough, and if things go bad enough that we drop stability after two kicks, we wouldn't like what's happening if we kicked only once.
 
Possibly raise more cavalry if we think it will make a difference.
I think we are so hopelessly outmatched there, it won't do us a lot of good. Probably should concentrate on bringing our strength in numbers to bear, rather than trying to outcavalry nomads right now, especially with the costs. Still, there's something to be said about that.
 
What do people want to do with our reaction action next turn? I'm thinking raise stability if we are at negatives, or a main war mission if we at neutral.
Depends on what's available obviously. I'd like to do Palace Annex x2, probably Stables+Great Hall. Getting the government upgrade immediately would be very useful, since it'd be ready for next main turn.

However, I highly suspect that just improving Stability is a better choice. Paying close attention to our overflows is useful, right now we have enough to top off our Econ and overflow just a tiny bit into Martial.
 
Not true. For instance, we put out a fine yellow dye made from sulfur and lime. The Storm Ymaryn might have enough of an alchemical tradition to figure it out, but the Harmurri and Freehills lacks the prerequisites to understand it. We make a wavy pattern welded straight sword and...how on earth are anyone without hammer mills going to make any of that economically?

Thats the point of the infrastructure statement. We have level 3 ironworks, which means some of our tech rolls will require ironworks of similar development to be feasible. They will of course, gain a lot, but at the same time as the infrastructure final boss of the region nearly anything they make we can potentially copy once we know its possible.

That is your optimistic interpretation. But there are multiple possibilities.

We know that the mechanical effect is that we share innovation rolls, and their results. You have also pointed out that not everyone has the same base resources. There are 3 solutions to this issue.

1) They get stuff they don't understand/ can't use.
2) We also transfer prerequisite knowledge whenever we make an innovation that requires it.
3) Innovations that can't be understood by all parties are not possible. Various tech trees are locked until the other side catches.

In my opinion, option 2 is the most likely. After all, it is the closest in effect to the explanation given by the GM.
 
Depends on what's available obviously. I'd like to do Palace Annex x2, probably Stables+Great Hall. Getting the government upgrade immediately would be very useful, since it'd be ready for next main turn.

However, I highly suspect that just improving Stability is a better choice. Paying close attention to our overflows is useful, right now we have enough to top off our Econ and overflow just a tiny bit into Martial.

No. Remember how AN talks about "general malaise" of government? Do you know last time it happened? Right before Palace Crisis.
It, too, was paired with yellow Centralization, as we have now.
The crisis of government overextension and being outdated is here. It is the cause of us losing stability in the first place.
 
No. Remember how AN talks about "general malaise" of government? Do you know last time it happened? Right before Palace Crisis.
It, too, was paired with yellow Centralization, as we have now.
The crisis of government overextension and being outdated is here. It is the cause of us losing stability in the first place.
We just got half a dozen shit rolls, there's no one big cause and government upgrade certainly can wait until the next main turn, where we will take it unless the sky falls.
 
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No. Remember how AN talks about "general malaise" of government? Do you know last time it happened? Right before Palace Crisis.
It, too, was paired with yellow Centralization, as we have now.
The crisis of government overextension and being outdated is here. It is the cause of us losing stability in the first place.

To be fair, AN also said we had half a dozen rather bad rolls, so we cannot be sure that we actually are in a crisis yet.
 
We just got half a dozen of shit rolls, there's no one big cause and government upgrade certainly can wait until the next main turn, where we will take it unless the sky falls.
To be fair, AN also said we had half a dozen rather bad rolls, so we cannot be sure that we actually are in a crisis yet.

He described as "some general malaise, you do not know the cause" events which were the leadup to the Palace Crisis, pretty much in the same words.
 
He described as "some general malaise, you do not know the cause" events which were the leadup to the Palace Crisis, pretty much in the same words.
Yeah, and later he said "everyone got at least one good roll, you just also got half a dozen shit rolls". I mean, maybe the government strain is the main reason, but certainly not to the point where we deal with right this moment.

Actually, I wonder what was that/those "at least one good roll" for Fornuch.
 
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[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top up Wealth)
 
Yeah, and later he said "everyone got good rolls, you just also got half a dozen shit rolls". I mean, maybe the government strain is the main reason, but certainly not to the point where we deal with right this moment.

We are at 17 provinces out of 12 safe limit, and were so for more ~a century at this point (integrated Gulvalley right before Plague IIRC?), and for far more than that we were over the administrative limit.
Shit's gonna crop up.

"This is probably a problem, but not right now" was the exact mindset that led to Palace Crisis - which was only surviveable due to Rulwyna's Triumvirate being absolute bullshit.
 
Looking good.

Our 1st Expand Forest action since so long, and instant innovations (s!)
Cinnamon,
Paper (suppressed)
Bark medicine (suppressed)

I believe that was planting spices, but it may have to do with expand forest as well.

Also, our alchemists showed up twice when no Study Alchemy actions had been explicitly taken. Our alchemists loved to play with anything and everything and seeing what might come up.
 
He described as "some general malaise, you do not know the cause" events which were the leadup to the Palace Crisis, pretty much in the same words.
He also mentioned an increase in disease and worse weather. Either of which can balloon into full-blown crises if we roll poorly on them again next turn. If the war is over by the next phase we can take a palace annex action. If it is not, we need to focus on either raising our stability or on more war missions so that we can either survive the war in a better condition or bring it to a more swift conclusion.
 
On a side note, I'm surprised that the decision to let others take part in the games is almost completely unanimous.

Letting others join involves giving the Harmurri, Storm Ymaryn and Freehills access to all our new technology.

We know that at least one of them (the Storm Ymaryn) will invade us and take our stuff if we weaken. We also know that the Freehills control the straits and are in need of money. Probably going to start levying tarrifs soon, which will spark another conflict.

The Harmurri are fine, but they're about to get involved in a major war with the Highland Kingdoms, which is probably going to leak technology.

So, do we really want to strengthen all these people?
 
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