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Paths of Civilization

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@Academia Nut , i think this question slipped through the cracks, but are any of our neighbors openly trying to emulate us as of now? Your line describing City On The Hill gave that impression to me.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Nah, I totally thought they may do it. I just hoped otherwise. Guess it wasn't the smartest move to hope passives will do what we want them to.
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Prioritization for factions seems to be something like this:
  1. Urgent Faction Quests
  2. Partially Complete Projects *Does not seem to apply to (or goes down in priority for) projects started by FCs
  3. Community Needs: mostly Baths/Aqueducts, but sometimes stuff like Markets, Libraries, GPs, etc.
So if you want provinces to do broadly useful societal stuff, we need to make sure there isn't a quest for them to get distracted by.
*Shrugs*. On the other hand, this means they handle infrastructure quests for us, so it isn't all bad.
 
thatguy said:
What do collossal walls actually look like on the ground?

Also, I was thinking of modern cities, we don't really have nearly enough defences for them, it's like everyone realized that big walls were useless against artillery, then gave up on building infrastructure designed to make a populated area more defensible. Let's buck that trend when we get to the modern era.

Another note, why aren't we doing somthing to raise Martial before the war? It seems short-sighted.
Edit just read beyond AN's comment, never mind.
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Plan Not!Switzerland is a go.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Prioritization for factions seems to be something like this:
  1. Urgent Faction Quests
  2. Partially Complete Projects *Does not seem to apply to (or goes down in priority for) projects started by FCs
  3. Community Needs: mostly Baths/Aqueducts, but sometimes stuff like Markets, Libraries, GPs, etc.
So if you want provinces to do broadly useful societal stuff, we need to make sure there isn't a quest for them to get distracted by.
*Shrugs*. On the other hand, this means they handle infrastructure quests for us, so it isn't all bad.
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Fair enough.
I mean, them handling Infra quests is good, as long as quests aren't a problem for us. For example, now Redshore needs 18 progress' worth (Aqueduct+Baths) to go with new Block Housing. If they upgrade it once more, to lvl4 city, they'll...well, point is, if guilds keep asking for bigger cities, eventually "maintenance" - building baths and aqueducts - will be way too troublesome to be worthwhile.

If guilds ask for lvl4 Ironworks next (after spite quest), we should either suppress him or remove Infras to let it fail IMO. OTOH, if they ask for something sane, like a couple more lvl1 Ironworks, then why not.
 
ctulhuslp said:
If guilds ask for lvl4 Ironworks next (after spite quest), we should either suppress him or remove Infras to let it fail IMO. OTOH, if they ask for something sane, like a couple more lvl1 Ironworks, then why not.
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The current quest gives no reward, but it does offer a stability hit if we fail, requires an obscene amount of actions to make it work, and makes a bigger headache for us.

This quest is a spite quest.
 
Kiba said:
We won't go back to a less urbanized society because proto-industrialization will reduce the amount of labor needed in rural area.
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Not necessarily. I doubt that we'll continually increase rural productivity that much. Basically, we'll run into the Malthusian trap again, as we push more and more marginal agricultural land into cultivation as we fill up the productive areas, until the marginal productivity of an extra acre under cultivation becomes subsistence.

As population increased, urbanism will tend to relatively decrease unless agricultural productivity increases even faster, as the proportional surplus available decreases. This will endogenously suppress the innovation required to break out of the trap, making it less likely. Breaking the trap may well require unfree labour to preserve available surpluses by confiscation from the lower classes.
 
Kiba said:
It would be helpful if someone compile a list of medical tech that we can acquire in classical antiquity and current trajectory of our technological progress.
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Classical human anatomy -> Can improve, requires losing or evolving Purity first so we can experiment on corpses.

Empirical primitive sanitary theory -> Can improve to classical sanitary theory. The primitive version is focused primarily on external and general infections. The classical version is actually less accurate in places than the primitive theory of curses, but covers diseases of excess, dietary imbalances(soon to manifest as urbanization continues to climb, we've been offsetting it because of Sacred Warding and the Garden producing a more balanced urban poor diet than the norm) and psychological maladies better.

Herbalism -> Pending Distillation to achieve drug isolation. Need a non-poisonous organic solvent to do any of that.

Oral rehydration therapy -> Intravenous rehydration therapy. Requires steel needles primarily, but it'd be difficult to do safely in the classical era.

Primitive insect repellents -> Pending Distillation to get something with better kick.

Soap -> Pending distillation to get Early Antiseptics

Spiritualism -> Classical psychology is going to be a difficult leap due to religious continuity. Germ theory is a long way behind optics

Biggest thing? Get distillation via Alchemy and Kilns. Access to hard liquor, then surgical alcohol is useful for everything from drug improvements to surgery
DragonParadox said:
So the last time someone sent a trading mission to the King of the hill was 60 years ago. OK you can say the plague distracted them, but what about before that.... the only thing I can think of is way the hell back when we first established the law, highlanders again. People seem oddly reticent to talk to us.
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Because they already send people to us all the time. International Games remember? Any attendant doesn't need to send a mission specifically to us without a goal.

And we've a little reputation for being crazy in everyone's legends.
...wonder if the Metalworkers remember whats up with the fire cave.
 
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DragonParadox said:
So the last time someone sent a trading mission to the King of the hill was 60 years ago. OK you can say the plague distracted them, but what about before that.... the only thing I can think of is way the hell back when we first established the law, highlanders again. People seem oddly reticent to talk to us.
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notgreat said:
Right after Epic Age the Khemetri did a bunch of diplo with us.
The Xoh traded with us just a bit before we killed them, giving us Chinampas and medical knowledge.
Aside from that... Yeah. Trade missions just don't have much payoff so few people do them.
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I suspect that this is also at least partly due to the limitation of this being a quest instead of RL- there is only so much stuff AN can mention/write about in an update and only so many plotlines that can be offered/done without overwhelming either him and/or us.
 
Oh, I want to point out that we need to stop using Enforce Justice, and replace that with build roads. Enforce Justice increases our cent, while we are a couple build roads actions from half complete interconnection road network. A few points in stability lost is a good cause for not needing to deal with centralization problems from Build Roads.
 
Marlin said:
Oh, I want to point out that we need to stop using Enforce Justice, and replace that with build roads. Enforce Justice increases our cent, while we are a couple build roads actions from half complete interconnection road network. A few points in stability lost is a good cause for not needing to deal with centralization problems from Build Roads.
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PSoN gives us a reliable way to lower cent while also getting actions we want to take. As long as we do it in moderation we are fine doing Enforce Justice.
 
DragonParadox said:
PSoN gives us a reliable way to lower cent while also getting actions we want to take. As long as we do it in moderation we are fine doing Enforce Justice.
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We need to take a roadbuilding action at some point.

And a main action Road costs -4 wealth, -3 econ for 2 centralization point. If we take secondary road, the cost will be the same except cheaper economically.

If we made this an invested action: Roadbuilding will cost us -4 wealth, -1 econ for 2 centralization, which is pretty damn efficient.


Wait...
Build Roads [Yeomen] - New roads can better tie the people together, so more could be useful. (21/55) +7 Centralization Tolerance (Max additional tolerance for government reached)
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We can't gain any more additional centralization tolerance???
 
Kiba said:
We need to take a roadbuilding action at some point.

And a main action Road costs -4 wealth, -3 econ for 2 centralization point. If we take secondary road, the cost will be the same except cheaper economically.

If we made this an invested action: Roadbuilding will cost us -4 wealth, -1 econ for 2 centralization, which is pretty damn efficient.


Wait...


We can't gain any more additional centralization tolerance???
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I'm assuming the cent tolerance will increase once we upgrade our government next turn.

Having a senate where Patricians can easily meet and discus things is likely to increase our cent tolerance, as the King can more easily manage things.
 
There isn't any doubt now... We need to upgrade the government, because roads no longer provide us banked centralization tolerance.
 
veekie said:
Classical human anatomy -> Can improve, requires losing or evolving Purity first so we can experiment on corpses.

Empirical primitive sanitary theory -> Can improve to classical sanitary theory. The primitive version is focused primarily on external and general infections. The classical version is actually less accurate in places than the primitive theory of curses, but covers diseases of excess, dietary imbalances(soon to manifest as urbanization continues to climb, we've been offsetting it because of Sacred Warding and the Garden producing a more balanced urban poor diet than the norm) and psychological maladies better.

Herbalism -> Pending Distillation to achieve drug isolation. Need a non-poisonous organic solvent to do any of that.

Oral rehydration therapy -> Intravenous rehydration therapy. Requires steel needles primarily, but it'd be difficult to do safely in the classical era.

Primitive insect repellents -> Pending Distillation to get something with better kick.

Soap -> Pending distillation to get Early Antiseptics

Spiritualism -> Classical psychology is going to be a difficult leap due to religious continuity. Germ theory is a long way behind optics

Biggest thing? Get distillation via Alchemy and Kilns. Access to hard liquor, then surgical alcohol is useful for everything from drug improvements to surgery

Because they already send people to us all the time. International Games remember? Any attendant doesn't need to send a mission specifically to us without a goal.

And we've a little reputation for being crazy in everyone's legends.
...wonder if the Metalworkers remember whats up with the fire cave.
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Epidemiology is another one plausible. We already got the Smallpox vaccine in the stone age, and that was only discovered (in the west) in the 18th century, I think.

Nevermind that the fluff descriptions fit pretty well as to what Epidemiology is about. It's just not a defined tech. But it's extremely useful in containing diseases even if we can't treat them.
 
DragonParadox said:
PSoN gives us a reliable way to lower cent while also getting actions we want to take. As long as we do it in moderation we are fine doing Enforce Justice.
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Bullshit, PSoN isn't reliable enough, and when it does lower cent IIRC it also lowers Stability. Then someone pushes Enforce Justice to quickly bring our Stability up, and the cycle repeats. We need to stop using Enforce Justice to solve our stability issues. Not forever, just until we gain more than Interconnectivity (27/55) compared to our current Interconnectivity (21/55).

PSoN not being reliable enough to me is it doesn't activate every mid-turn.
 
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Marlin said:
IIRC it also lowers Stability
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iirc it doesn't

Academia Nut said:
PSN
[] [PSN] Sec Plant Hemp (-1 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Plant Hemp (-2 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Sec Plant Cotton (-1 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Plant Cotton (-2 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Sec Plant Poppies (-1 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Sec Expand Forests (-1 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Sec Expand Econ (-1 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
[] [PSN] Nothing
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I am for pushing Increase Cement Production to boost construction projects everywhere.

It will probably affect:

1) The Dam
2) Great Hall annex
3) Colossal Walls
4) Aqueducts, if it gets started.

I am not sure if the effect of increasing cement production will have a diffuse impact the more projects we got going on, but I am hoping that it won't.
 
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