Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
it won't help w/ road projects but damn if it might not make our baths cheaper
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
We are probably putting off roadbuilding projects until the government upgrade because we just found out that it won't have any impact on centralization tolerance.
- Location
- Somewhere
I want roads, and a coconut tree marker at every mile!
When was the last time we took a [Main] Build Roads action anyway? A thousand years ago?
When was the last time we took a [Main] Build Roads action anyway? A thousand years ago?
Shouldn't we still build roads until our interconnectivity is half full?
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Roads compete with cement production in term of wealth. It costs 4 wealth, while doesn't really give us any benefit because it no longer increases tolerance for us. Cement costs at least 6 wealth. The Great Dam MP support policy will cost 6 wealth alone, and that's already half of our cap.
Meanwhile, increased cement production quicken the pace we finishes our critical infrastructure projects that we want done yesterday, like the Great Dam and the aqueducts.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
yeah, I've been here for that.
I'm just clarifying that concrete isn't a magical goo that you can slather on everything, because sometimes the ingredients used to make the goo are less effort and just as useful.
How long until the government switch happens? Isn't it like... next turn?
Next turn or mid-turn reaction.
Note that we don't need to let the MP support spend all its actions on actual MP support. It'll automatically do resource generation if it's not safe to do MP actions.
I'm hoping we can build Warships as a reaction (where the Patricians/Guilds can't stop us). Either way though, we want a {M} Warships and an {M} Concrete next turn, which together eats up 18/24 wealth. We probably want at least 2 Dam actions, so that's 22/24 wealth, giving us just enough for the {S} Charcoal Kilns that we desperately need to keep a forest buffer with the near-guaranteed upcoming Ironworks lvl3.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Assuming that the gov upgrade raises our cent tolerance cap from roads, protesting against roads on that basis has no merit.
Concrete is still short-term more worthwhile, however. Money saved (on buildings) is money spent (on roads).
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If you're arguing for the roads, centralization is not the problem. The "And where am I supposed to squeeze that in? Not trying on Levi's here" is. We are either low on stats, actions or both. Though, depending on how the midturn and overflow goes, we may actually have a place for them next turn.
For something different, do we have a chance to activate Lower Valleyhome next turn? I'd like to make it a free city.
I'm putting together a sequence of posts that describes what we can expect and what we need to watch out for from Faction actions. Here is the first in the series:
Faction Overview: Yeomen
Faction Ability
Adds faction power to secondary Martial. Practically speaking, this Ability holds little significant to us one way or another; it can safely be ignored the majority of the time.
Dangerous Actions (Dangerous Actions are actions which have potentially-undesirable and often irreversible effects)
NEW SETTLEMENT: +1 {Econ+LTE}, +1 Mysticism, extra LTE produced, +2 Province progress*
*Adding provinces is irreversible and often undesirable due to the limits of our administrative capacity
Expensive Actions (Expensive Actions are generally good actions that also have high costs that the factions can thereby incur on our behalf)
BLACK SOIL: -2 Econ, 1 Forest Slot Consumed, -1(+1) Tech, +6 LTE
PLANT CASH CROPS - TEXTILES: -5 Econ, -5 LTE, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo, +1 Culture, +1 {Econ+LTE} next turn, other effects
PLANT CASH CROPS - DRUGS: -3 Econ, -3 LTE, +1 Mysticism, +7 Wealth
PLANT CASH CROPS - LUXURIES: -5 Econ, -2 LTE, +6 Wealth, +2 Culture, other effects
Wonderful Actions (Actions whose benefit greatly outweight the costs, and which we should almost always be happy about our factions taking)
BUILD ROADS: -3 Econ, -4 Wealth, -2(+1) Tech, +2 Centralization, +2 Diplo, +2 Interconnectivity Progress, other effects
BUILD WATCHTOWERS: -1 Econ, +10% Watchtower coverage
EXPAND ECONOMY: +12 Econ, -4(+2) Tech
EXPAND FORESTS: -3 Econ, -3 LTE, grows forest, +4 {Econ+LTE} next turn, +1 Sustainable Forest, other effects.
SURVEY LANDS: -1 Econ, Potential Discoveries
{S} EP - SALTERN: -3 Econ, -3(+1) Tech, extra Wealth produced, +0.5 Wealth/turn
Summary
The Yeomen are one of our useful factions. They have a number of Wonderful actions, including the ability to build roads, expand our economy, and plant our forests. The only really Expensive actions they have access to are expensive in terms of LTE, and they actually produce that with other actions so it should be much of a problem. And finally, the only Dangerous action they have is adding New Settlement, which is going to be a bother but not that much of a bother, since we don't generally have enough expansion targets for that to be a critical problem.
Faction Overview: Yeomen
Faction Ability
Adds faction power to secondary Martial. Practically speaking, this Ability holds little significant to us one way or another; it can safely be ignored the majority of the time.
Dangerous Actions (Dangerous Actions are actions which have potentially-undesirable and often irreversible effects)
NEW SETTLEMENT: +1 {Econ+LTE}, +1 Mysticism, extra LTE produced, +2 Province progress*
*Adding provinces is irreversible and often undesirable due to the limits of our administrative capacity
Expensive Actions (Expensive Actions are generally good actions that also have high costs that the factions can thereby incur on our behalf)
BLACK SOIL: -2 Econ, 1 Forest Slot Consumed, -1(+1) Tech, +6 LTE
PLANT CASH CROPS - TEXTILES: -5 Econ, -5 LTE, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo, +1 Culture, +1 {Econ+LTE} next turn, other effects
PLANT CASH CROPS - DRUGS: -3 Econ, -3 LTE, +1 Mysticism, +7 Wealth
PLANT CASH CROPS - LUXURIES: -5 Econ, -2 LTE, +6 Wealth, +2 Culture, other effects
Wonderful Actions (Actions whose benefit greatly outweight the costs, and which we should almost always be happy about our factions taking)
BUILD ROADS: -3 Econ, -4 Wealth, -2(+1) Tech, +2 Centralization, +2 Diplo, +2 Interconnectivity Progress, other effects
BUILD WATCHTOWERS: -1 Econ, +10% Watchtower coverage
EXPAND ECONOMY: +12 Econ, -4(+2) Tech
EXPAND FORESTS: -3 Econ, -3 LTE, grows forest, +4 {Econ+LTE} next turn, +1 Sustainable Forest, other effects.
SURVEY LANDS: -1 Econ, Potential Discoveries
{S} EP - SALTERN: -3 Econ, -3(+1) Tech, extra Wealth produced, +0.5 Wealth/turn
Summary
The Yeomen are one of our useful factions. They have a number of Wonderful actions, including the ability to build roads, expand our economy, and plant our forests. The only really Expensive actions they have access to are expensive in terms of LTE, and they actually produce that with other actions so it should be much of a problem. And finally, the only Dangerous action they have is adding New Settlement, which is going to be a bother but not that much of a bother, since we don't generally have enough expansion targets for that to be a critical problem.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
This is super rad of you to put together! What determines when Yeoman can take actions and how many they get?
Don't forget that concrete is essential to unlocking the Grand Harbor megaproject(which AN says is at least doable) and the Harbor EP. So, it's essential for connectivity. Of course, we should still continue to build road.
Last AN commented, provinces/2 - True Cities in the new system. May be a subject to rework, but they probably won't have much, what with our urbanization spree.
- Location
- Austria
It can be compensated for by integrating several low urbanization provinces, like, say, in Txolla.
Leading to ex Txolla provinces narratively being more rural yeomen land, as opposed to urbanized city elites core, cue fracture lines and economic specialization, to a degree, of imperial regions.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
I've seen people say our passives aren't building baths/aqueducts for block housing, but Redshore just got more baths for their new block housing here.
Am I missing something?
Also, go Redshore, greatest city in the world!
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah, we're looking at a couple secondary actions at most until we really start integrating expanding our core into the lowlands.
That's just level 2, with new block housing they need another aqueduct and bath to keep being healthy. Passives probably will build them, if after Ironworks, but that's a progress they not spending on markets, which are what we want them to build.
That's for level 2. Redshore just also became a level 3 city, but we have yet to build any level 3 infrastructure.
Faction Overview: Priests
Faction Ability
Adds faction power to RA. Generally an undesirable ability; we don't have enough control over our RA to be able to reasonably adjust for the value changing due to faction power fluctuations.
Dangerous Actions
{S} EP - TEMPLE: -3 Econ, -3 Culture, +1 RA*
*We currently have NO way to get rid of Religious Authority, except taking the rare events that happen to reduce it. It would take next to nothing for our Priests to build a handful of level-one temples and bring our RA into the red, and there is just about nothing that we can do about it.
Expensive Actions
SUPPORT SACRED ORDERS: -4 Econ, -4(+3) Mysticism, -14 Wealth, +7 Martial, +2 Light Cavalry, +3 Culture, other effects
ART PATRONAGE: -1 Econ, -10 Wealth, +5 Culture, +1 Tech, +1 Prestige, higher chance of innovations x2
STUDY ALCHEMY: -4(+3) Mysticism, -8 Wealth, -1 Econ, +1 Tech, increased chance of new discoveries x2
STUDY METAL: -1 Econ, -6 Wealth, -1(+1) Mysticism, improved chance of new insights x2
PLANT CASH CROPS - DRUGS: -3 Econ, -3 LTE, +1 Mysticism, +7 Wealth
Wonderful Actions
IMPROVE ANNUAL FESTIVAL: -2 Econ, -4 Wealth, +1 Stability, +4 Culture, chance for additional effects
STUDY HEALTH: -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, -3(+3) Mysticism, -1(+1) Tech, increased odds of success x2
{S} STUDY STARS: -2 Wealth, +1(+1) Mysticism, gives mid-turn astrological predictions
{S} EP - LIBRARY: -3(+3) Mysticism, -3 Culture, +0.5 to Mysticism Refund
{S} EP - OBSERVATORY: -3(+3) Mysticism, -3 Econ, +1 Mysticism Generation to Study Stars Action
Summary
The Priests are probably going to be trouble. They do have a number of Wonderful actions, like Studying Health, restoring stability with Festivals, and building Observatories, but they also have both the ability and the motivation to drive our RA into the stratosphere. Troubling.
They also have access to a number of exceptionally expensive actions - such as Support Sacred Orders, which consumes more then half of our maximum wealth. Is it useful? Absolutely. Can we afford it? Not quite.
Faction Ability
Adds faction power to RA. Generally an undesirable ability; we don't have enough control over our RA to be able to reasonably adjust for the value changing due to faction power fluctuations.
Dangerous Actions
{S} EP - TEMPLE: -3 Econ, -3 Culture, +1 RA*
*We currently have NO way to get rid of Religious Authority, except taking the rare events that happen to reduce it. It would take next to nothing for our Priests to build a handful of level-one temples and bring our RA into the red, and there is just about nothing that we can do about it.
Expensive Actions
SUPPORT SACRED ORDERS: -4 Econ, -4(+3) Mysticism, -14 Wealth, +7 Martial, +2 Light Cavalry, +3 Culture, other effects
ART PATRONAGE: -1 Econ, -10 Wealth, +5 Culture, +1 Tech, +1 Prestige, higher chance of innovations x2
STUDY ALCHEMY: -4(+3) Mysticism, -8 Wealth, -1 Econ, +1 Tech, increased chance of new discoveries x2
STUDY METAL: -1 Econ, -6 Wealth, -1(+1) Mysticism, improved chance of new insights x2
PLANT CASH CROPS - DRUGS: -3 Econ, -3 LTE, +1 Mysticism, +7 Wealth
Wonderful Actions
IMPROVE ANNUAL FESTIVAL: -2 Econ, -4 Wealth, +1 Stability, +4 Culture, chance for additional effects
STUDY HEALTH: -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, -3(+3) Mysticism, -1(+1) Tech, increased odds of success x2
{S} STUDY STARS: -2 Wealth, +1(+1) Mysticism, gives mid-turn astrological predictions
{S} EP - LIBRARY: -3(+3) Mysticism, -3 Culture, +0.5 to Mysticism Refund
{S} EP - OBSERVATORY: -3(+3) Mysticism, -3 Econ, +1 Mysticism Generation to Study Stars Action
Summary
The Priests are probably going to be trouble. They do have a number of Wonderful actions, like Studying Health, restoring stability with Festivals, and building Observatories, but they also have both the ability and the motivation to drive our RA into the stratosphere. Troubling.
They also have access to a number of exceptionally expensive actions - such as Support Sacred Orders, which consumes more then half of our maximum wealth. Is it useful? Absolutely. Can we afford it? Not quite.
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Romv
A Memory of TREES
Ah, I thought it already had a level 2.
- Location
- Austria
A note about RA: as it is a measure of how popular and respected are our priests, high RA is probably what protects against other religions. Very important for us with those highlander xenophobes next door. And genrerally very important for us since we have both values and religion which encourage opennes to new ideas, which make us vulnerable to conversion.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Additionally, our religion is what helps to secure our beneficent traits, and what sets us apart from other polities of the time period.
There is nothing saying that Dangerous actions can't be useful, if used in moderation. In fact, we should be happy to see the Yeomen using New Settlement to start, since presumably they would be targeting Internal Reorg and thus getting us closer to whatever reward we get for completion there. Similarly, we should be moderately happy to see another Temple from the Priests, assuming that it is actually a Lvl3 temple (which would give us an extra action).
The trouble starts if the action is used more often than we would like - and that is a problem because we don't control our factions directly and can't just tell e.g. the Priests to stop building Temples because it is making the priesthood too prestigious.
Technically, yes; practically, no. Academies do help with RA, but they are an incredibly expensive way to address the issue. Basically, to offset a single Temple worth of RA, we need to build an Academy, and then two Libraries to offset the mysticism-refund-reduction.
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Pretty simple, actually. Just the natural boredom of wealth people looking for new and interesting things. Those new and interesting things don't always have to be art or fads. They can easily be that new ship design or this marvelous mechanism or whatever.