Wealth costs being doubled has a ton of hidden effects.

If our Light Cavalry goes down, replacing that is going to cost 10 Wealth per unit. Influence Subordinate costs six Wealth. Salt Gift costs more than half of our maximum Wealth. We are probably never taking another Study Action in the foreseeable future because they're outlandishly expensive now. Most relevant to the Dam: we have exactly one way of generating Tech that doesn't cost 8 or more Wealth, and that's the Industry passive policy, which we chose not to take.

Even though our Tech is stable right now, we have essentially no way of recouping any losses.
One simple word invalidates half of your analysis: overflow.

We're gonna need to keep everything high to stay alive, but we definitely can do that. If we get a Golden Age we'll need to be very judicious with our advancements, but it also will give us significant wealth income to cancel out the cost of the advancements.

Point of order: it's 7 wealth per unit.
14 wealth for 2. Yeah, that's not happening any time soon. Here's hoping stables annexes make it cheaper or something.

edit: clarification that the 14 wealth does provide 2 units of cavalry
 
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If our Light Cavalry goes down, replacing that is going to cost 10 Wealth per unit. Influence Subordinate costs six Wealth. Salt Gift costs more than half of our maximum Wealth.
This is the point where Charity's reduction to max Wealth capacity starts hurting.

Still worth it; Independent Infrastructure is still the only aspect that irritates me. But that reduction to our Wealth ceiling is actually mattering.
 
Point of order: it's 7 wealth per unit.

Let us take a moment to mourn Support Sacred Orders. We hardly knew you. :V

I'm sure the thread will figure out a plan to support holy orders if they looked endangered. One way or another. :V

Terrify is threatening the city and hoping a mob panic occurs and they open the gates to us. Its not going in and destroying the city but threateing them that we would so they give up.

I hope so, but seeing is believing and all that.
 
This is basically exactly how it went in a few places. While some have gone with a more "Actually, they have a point, is it really so bad?" tack than the "We must enslave the world to uplift them from their impure burdens!" the seed got planted, and those opposed have started to throw out accusations of corruption. You now also have orthodox Mylathads who preach against greed with a new hook that people will listen to. While many patricians are opposed to reforms because it will hurt them, more than a few of the lower ranked ones have realized that they can topple rivals and senior patricians in the way of their advancement by airing their dirty laundry. Now, many of them were also neck deep in corruption themselves, but they are both brazen enough and skilled enough at bureaucracy to hide their former misdeeds.

Your next king may be named Wylpul.
And thus we have made Justice profitable!

Currency crisis is returning in style soon as the realm scrambles to find the coins to pay for half exile salary. :3 Sure didn't expect that.
Wrong way round. Half exiles being paid will increase currency velocity, increasing the resilience of the economy to specie shortage. The lowest classes, provided they get paid and have a place to spend it(looks meaningfully at markets), spend a lot of money on basic comforts.

The upper classes by contrast prefer to hoard, and can afford basic comforts without dipping into reserves.

Our centralization tolerance is going to drop like a brick. How much tolerance do we stand to lose anyway?

Also, will traders surpass innovation or be driven to increase innovation?

I'd expect them to suppress innovation initially out of spite, then realize they're losing money and then frantically focus innovation on how to make money out of a lot of poor people with money.

The answer is probably advertising and fast food(no really, Rome had that).

Can we even pay the wealth costs at this level of development? I'm worried about losing all wealth and being forced to adopt someone else's slavery traditions.(I mean we probably can but I'd like to see the math please)

Also, we probably should have chosen a harder to break religious structure, considering how many important things are maintained by the priests.

Our religious structure is like that because we got there first, and thus maintain a lot of the original elements.

Noting that Hinduism and Shinto are highly similar and exist, even thrive today.


Have we invented string instruments yet? Because I need a skilled Ymaryn craftsman to make me the world's tiniest violin.

No Art Patronage. Its possible our musical experience is limited.

Mind, Txolla is using the same river. But they will just add more Black Soil in that area. And it's only a very minor part of their total territory.

And as the Txolla reapply the runoff but without a Dam in the way to catch it, the Harmurri are unlikely to even notice anything on their end.

So we basically perform a targeted macro-scale attack that specifically punishes the HK, benefits us in a variety of ways and doesn't meaningfully impact our allies.

Later historians will probably ascribe the reigning King some Machiavellian traits for that brilliant move.
Contemporaries would probably put it down to witchcraft and the wrath of the spirits. :p

I think I may have an idea as to how the Guilds will try to reduce costs: Cottage Industry.

Without any wars going on, the Yeomen have nothing to do. Even with a war going on, a lot of farmhands and former Half Exiles have little to do in the winter months. So they might be willing to make some extra cash doing simple works for a pittance but as they have no other income in that time anyway, they still profit.

The only stumbling block is Corvee labour. If that happens in winter, it won't be done. But odds are most of that is done is between planting and harvest as they have the most idle time and conditions are better.
Not a problem. We gave them the option to pay in cash or corvee. If they develop cottage industries they'd be paying cash instead.

not necessarily, there's more to war than coin and men, and many a war ended in the most unlikely of fashions. The HK either know something we don't, they lack intel about actual ymar capabilities, they have capabilities that we don't know of, they are relying on something that we don't know/take into account, the war serves a purpose for them regardless of victory, the threat against ymar was just a PR move...etc.

there's plenty of variables to take into account as to why they would imply a war or actually fight one.

I would note that the Hathatyn were forced to reconquista themselves to death. It's entirely possible that during the transition to Theocratic Monotheism they picked up a Manifest Destiny Debilitating Belief.



I'll look into doing up a more detailed informational post, but the "average" really depends on what is going on. In a total war scenario you will activate mass levy, in which case the average warrior will be equipped with a crossbow, about twenty to thirty bolts, a large knife, a short sword, a gambeson supplemented with a light mail shirt for the torso, and a cheap leather and iron helm/semi-protective hat.

Each of the banner companies has a specialty, but they are all quite well equipped. Red Banner has the heaviest gear, with plenty of riveted maille, iron scale, and cast bronze plates and helms. They are something like Roman triarii with more specialists attached. The Dragon Banner is more steppe skirmishers, with charioteers slowly being phased out with cavalry, and fewer heavy infantry. Blood Rain Banner is a better equipped version of the crossbowmen, with heavier armour and heavier draws on their weapons, as well as support gear like pavises.
Hmm, so the Red Banner and Blood Rain Banner would be the best served in a war with the Highlanders in the passes, which is basically their ideal terrain, but due to HK secrecy we don't know how well they match up.


Er, the data is nice, but you misread that hilariously.

For comparison, modern agriculture gives for plants that need a lot maybe 400 kg pure nitrogen per hectare. 210 tons would probably cover the ground in a 10 cm layer of pure, concentrated chemical fertilizer that would thoroughly sterilize the field for likely decades and cause horrible damage to the groundwater.

What that (still awesome) poster says is that per ton, there are 1.9 to 2.1% nitrogen. Or 19 to 21 kg of N in various forms.

The trials they did then demonstrated that Black Soil (both Low and High Temperature) were not as good as modern chemical fertilizer, but were fairly close to it.

10 tons of Terra Preta per hectare:

Control: 2.35 tons of wheat per hectare
Low Temp Terra Preta : 6.65 t
High Temp Terra Preta: 5.1
Chemical Fertilizer without TP: 7.95

That's a difference of 1.3 tons per hectare between Terra Preta and synthetic fertilizer. That's actually pretty damn good. Sadly, there is no mention as to the application of fungicides, but it's likely. As such, we can't use that easily as a baseline for Ymaryn agri output.

For comparison, most everyone else around us without TP has to be satisfied with a measly 2.35 tons per hectare. Or about 60% less. And then we add the Ironworks that reduce the workload to get there.

The second table is a bit less interesting as it only concerns plant height. That has an influence on photosynthesis area and thus how good the grain will be (it's more complicated than that). But it also shows that escalating the amount of TP past 10 tons has diminishing returns and is unlikely to be worth it for the Ymaryn as getting and applying 100 tons per hectare is some serious work.


TL;DR:

Ymaryn are Bullshit.
Also a minor factor is that a deep layer of Terra Preta also prevents the soil from becoming hard packed and dry as easily. We likely do use an excess of Black Soil for that reason. Deep TP layers means that the field is more likely to resist droughts better and also be easier to plough and root in.

Wonder if our crops have been adapting deeper root networks to take better advantage.


-Harmurri are italic/threatening dominance in common textiles with the khem (previously dominating) potentially out of the way
Italics is usually Leading I think?
-Forhuch are threatening our gem dominance, while storm ymaryn are producing at least some gems
Naturally. The SY live in the Metal Workers place, so they got the gems we used to buy from them.

New legacies! The first for the horseman's plague finally being done, and us surviving it so well (thunder speakers aside :V), the second for hitting 100 prestige :)
So being any two of at War, dealing with Pestilence/plague, dealing with Famine, or...Death? ...Not actually sure what would count as a separate instance of death? will give us +1 prestige a turn, which is...kind of weak honestly? Still, a nice bonus i suppose, and with luck we can upgrade it at some point :p
Death is probably instantaneous natural disaster(volcano, bolide impact). Instant, unlike the others.

That suggests that @veekie 's theory about GPs giving benefits based on having half the main palaces annex count (rather than -1 as he'd originally suggested) is correct, since we got +1 prestige for having 2 annexes in the capital. That also suggests that at Great/Grand hall 6, we'll get +1 diplo per palace, or maybe (like with the tech upgrade) +1 per two palaces. Probably per palace, since stat drips aren't as powerful as refunds.
Noting that once we get that it's possible to ask AN to allow a revision of the Vassal laws to switch the Colonial Tax to Governor rotation without suicide.

Also note that unlike what we'd thought, the RA tolerance boost wasn't just for shrines, it was...presumably shrine + library? Likwise, the City Attraction boost was a synergy, likely Garden + hall or Garden + storehouse.
Shrine + Grand Hall is my theory. It gets the priests involved in the political games, rather than them finding/making their own games.
City Attraction is most likely Garden + Storehouse. EE tolerance is mainly about food and health security at the point we unlocked that.

Interesting details on how the dam will be made, and how much the people know about surveying and the like...also:

I can't tell whether this is a temporary/new post just for this construction, or if we have made much much smaller dams on minor rivers before, or if there's just always such a chief because every king thinks the dam will happen any year now :V
Small dams are required in any irrigation system in hilly areas, and also to ensure stable flow in aqueducts. You need those to regulate the flow, unless you want the aqueducts to flash flood during heavy downpours.

However, AN already mentioned way back that the King has the authority to declare new titles and positions. Mining Chief existed on and off before we went full Iron and locked it into a permanent position.

Narrative for the extra 2-for-one expansion :) Interesting directions for things to go. Greater involvement of patricians and ability to coordinate in a central location was expected, but i didn't expect a second smaller hall or for better lower class involvement. The smaller hall is likely to turn into the parliament/senate/noble council/whatever hall during the government upgrade, formalizing the "patricians decide things here before going to the king" practice. Hopefully that will also free up the main hall more to be used for lower classes to petition the king and/or the king's assistants.
Naw, it just makes it so that the lower classes can approach the smaller hall and find someone willing to back their petition, which is a lower entry barrier than going to the King.

This is mostly because the King's time is worth a lot, which encourages 'frivolous' petitions to be dismissed, while the Lower Hall is full of Patricians who are looking for some way to get one up on each other, which means they're more open to commons petitions as weapons against each other.

Remember, our premier means of social climbing is to successfully accuse someone up the totem pole of a crime or corruption!

-1 Last update the lv 3 market base cost was 9. Is it intentional that level 3 temples are 12 cost, or should those be 9 as well?

I think the cost simply reflects that the Temple isn't being supported by the city size so it costs a lot more to upgrade?

-5 How unique is stuff like the Chamber of the Survey from last update? Is that another "The People are weird" thing, or is it relatively normal? Either way, are there any (other) uniquely Ymaryn sections of the palace/government?
Historically fairly common as mentioned before. Generally more transient however, IRL rulers tended to dump facilities they aren't very interested in during regime changes.

You know, it's too bad the HK plans to attack the Harmurri first. If they hit us, we could just extend the war as much as we can to collapse them while gaining martial.

I mean, +1 martial per phase, and -1 HK stability per turn? In addition to Terrify? Heh.
They aren't stupid. They know this. Which is why their response to our trade mission is more or less designed to force US to declare war on them, which would let them fight us without regenerating Hulk syndrome.

As such, for our prosecution of this war, we have several broad options:
Flanking war
-Approach: While the HK pushes towards the Harmurri, we strike for their mountain passes from the rear and Txolla strikes for their lowland holdings.
-Pros:
--Only route likely to give us the mountain passes and some measure of permanent security
--Ideal terrain for Shieldwall And Crossbow
-Cons:
--Plays to their advantages. Mountain passes restrict both our superior weight of numbers and make cavalry unusable
--Unable to create Spirit March or warships without crippling this effort.
--Requires Mass Levy to make a serious go at it, which would be crippling in expense to maintain.
--Less relationship gain from the Harmurri(who can't even see us fight from there)

Lowland Front:
-Approach: Declare and join the Harmurri in a solely defensive war on the lowlands with Txolla chipping in.
-Pros:
--Advantageous terrain for cavalry.
--HK bereft of fortification bonuses
--Maximizes relationship bonus
-Cons:
--Will be a terrible slog, there will be no decisive damage done to the HK unless they're a fool.

Proxy war
-Approach: Rent the Banners(yes all the Banners) to the Hamurri. Which would goad the HK to either double down on their war effort or attempt to launch a strike upon our core.
-Pros:
--Low action and cost commitment.
--If the HK takes the bait and strikes for our core we now are in a defensive war and become the regenerating Hulk.
--Potentially make a profit out of it, but we could just send the Banners for free and get relations out of it.
-Cons:
--Least personally satisfying.
--If the HK takes the bait and strikes for our core we're going to take Stability damage at a bad time. We can fix that, but it's another thing to juggle
--Would require that we keep a significant Wealth buffer to grow our military in an emergency.

I'm personally in favor of Proxy War for at least long enough to finish our infrastructure rush.
 
No, we're currently at 1.5 tech refund. We're a single GP away from 2 tech refund, have 11 infrastructure passives and just upgraded the hell out of them. I'm assuming we'll get one built within a few turns, further cutting down tech costs.

We're likely to get one in approximately 5 turns. The issue is that our policies seek to finish half complete projects before starting new ones.

Currently, for Infrastructure, we have these projects started and partially complete:

Redshore Baths (4/6), Redhills Colossal Walls (1/9), Valleyguard Colossal Walls (1/9).

Redshore is almost certainly going to complete its Baths with its own passive policies and Valleyguard and Redshore will likely keep chipping away at Colossal Walls. The issue is, our passive policies are probably going to finish the colossal walls first since they are unfinished projects. Then, of the two, the reason we're doing Valleyguard walls first is because they're closer to the HK and thus more likely (on the extreme off-chance) to get hit by war.

At Mid-Turn, we'll likely be:

Redshore Baths (6/6), Redhills Colossal Walls (6/9), Valleyguard Colossal Walls (9/9)

Next turn, our policies are likely to finish Redhills Colossal Walls and then get on the Guild quest. Redhills will devote their FC policy to helping out the Colossal Walls, thankfully. The issue is, even with Redshore putting its policies into Ironworks Lv. 3, we can't finish it in time. We need to finish the Ironworks Lv. 3 by the Mid-Turn after next if we want to pass the Guild quest.

2nd Mid-Turn:

Redhills Colossal Walls (9/9), Redshore Blockhousing Lv 2. (6/6), Redshore Ironworks Lv 3. (5/9)

From there, Redshore is going to want another aqueduct and then a baths in order to minimize their risk of disease.

3rd Mid-Turn:

Redshore Ironworks Lv. 3 (9/9), Redshore Aquaduct Lv. 3 (9/9).

4th Mid-Turn

Redshore Baths Lv. 3 (9/9)...

We finally get 4 Infrastructure progress that wouldn't be ear-marked for previously shown priorities! Even then, that presumes Valleyguard or Redhills hasn't started an Infrastructure project of their own that we'll need to deal with. (Although, if they do, it's likely markets so it's not completely terrible.)

Like, I keep turning the math over and over in my head. If our Infrastructure policies are attracted to finish the already-started Colossal Walls, we're screwed. That would make it so we can't complete the Guild quest on time since we won't have built Blockhousing Lv. 2 until our 2nd Mid-Turn, we can't even shore up the quest with actions since we can't invest those until Blockhousing Lv. 2 is complete.

Our only hope would be if the passives ignored Colossal Walls and/or we dump a truck load of the passive policies we expect to gain as a result of our government level up. Alternatively, we will be required to burn some of our actions building Aqueducts (Baths will cost 8 Wealth for 3 progress and as such are impossible for us to do) on our 3rd upcoming Main turn.

We're not going to get a Governor's Palace any time soon. Unless we dedicate even more (2) passive policies to Infrastructure after we get our government upgrade, the Guild quest fails too.
 
@Academia Nut went archive searching for a discussion on the discord and realized we haven't been getting our bonus policy from teh census; we should have 10 right now:
1 (Base) + 1 (Census) + 2 (Redshore lv 2) + 2 (Redhills + Valleyguard) + 4 (Valleyhome, Blackmouth, Stallion Pen, Sacred Forest) = 10

Also, error and questions section from A&D post, including a question i forgot the first time about what counts forthe horsmen legacy:

-Wealth cap should be 25, not 24
-Mysticism and Tech should be 27 (+3) and 27 (+2); you left the values from last turn.
-The civ sheet uses "Grand Hall", while the action list uses "Great Hall". Which should be the term used?

-1 Last update the lv 3 market base cost was 9. Is it intentional that level 3 temples are 12 cost, or should those be 9 as well?

-2 What counts as "Death" for the purposes of the horsemen legacy?

-3 Is the Chief of Dam Construction a temporary/new position, or have the People built much much smaller dams before?

-4 What does our civ looks like in terms of religious centers and the like? Like...is there still a big divide between the sacred forest and dragon's graveyard temples? What about the other temples/holy sites? Is sacred forest still the dominant "power" in that regard? How entrenched is mylathadism?

-5 Do our vassals benefit from steelblooded? I assume they wouldn't get the ironworks bonuses, but not sure on the legacies...

-6 How unique is stuff like the Chamber of the Survey from last update? Is that another "The People are weird" thing, or is it relatively normal? Either way, are there any (other) uniquely Ymaryn sections of the palace/government?
 
is unreliable. I will remind you that we have spent much of the past several turns avoiding starvation.

Famines happen, diplomatic incidents occur, wars start, plagues happen, things catch on fire, and bills come due.
We've been pretty constantly at max stats in all three of our cultural stats for quite a while now. We regen our cultural stuff really quickly due to our megaprojects, refunds and other infrastructure.

Really, we are pretty unlikely to run low on tech as we are now. We've got 10+ stats in overflow ready to occur at this moment to cover any of our cultural stats dipping. Barring some pretty major expenses, we're probably fine.
 
I assume our Civ isn't "advanced" enough to manufacture a reason that it's a defensive war?

Like, I dunno, have the Harmurri nominally give us a chunk of land between them and the HK so we have to go kick the HK's teeth in for invading our sovereign territory that the Harmurri were nice enough to give us?
 
I assume our Civ isn't "advanced" enough to manufacture a reason that it's a defensive war?

Like, I dunno, have the Harmurri nominally give us a chunk of land between them and the HK so we have to go kick the HK's teeth in for invading our sovereign territory that the Harmurri were nice enough to give us?
yeah, the idea of polities negotiating over land is currently being pioneered by the Forhuch.
We probably won'tt get an option like this
 
I assume our Civ isn't "advanced" enough to manufacture a reason that it's a defensive war?

Like, I dunno, have the Harmurri nominally give us a chunk of land between them and the HK so we have to go kick the HK's teeth in for invading our sovereign territory that the Harmurri were nice enough to give us?
You mean would AN allow us to cheese the rules? :V
 
I assume our Civ isn't "advanced" enough to manufacture a reason that it's a defensive war?

Like, I dunno, have the Harmurri nominally give us a chunk of land between them and the HK so we have to go kick the HK's teeth in for invading our sovereign territory that the Harmurri were nice enough to give us?
If the harmurri lands are being attacked we have a CB anyway; International Games and/or Pride in Acceptance gives us the Intervention CB when a Games partner is under attack. Hell, iirc we lose prestige each turn we have it available but dont take it.
 
I assume our Civ isn't "advanced" enough to manufacture a reason that it's a defensive war?

Like, I dunno, have the Harmurri nominally give us a chunk of land between them and the HK so we have to go kick the HK's teeth in for invading our sovereign territory that the Harmurri were nice enough to give us?
The ability to manufacture a CB was one of the two options we had once we gained Iron. It was called Iron Fist and it gave us the ability to manufacture a CB (I think its upgraded version Steel Fist would let us manufacture any CB). We chose Iron Blooded over it.
 
I assume our Civ isn't "advanced" enough to manufacture a reason that it's a defensive war?

Like, I dunno, have the Harmurri nominally give us a chunk of land between them and the HK so we have to go kick the HK's teeth in for invading our sovereign territory that the Harmurri were nice enough to give us?
That was kinda the idea behind the "trade mission" to the HK. We already know they want to attack Toxlla. It should be a defensive war even if we start it before they march armies into Toxlla.
 
That was kinda the idea behind the "trade mission" to the HK. We already know they want to attack Toxlla. It should be a defensive war even if we start it before they march armies into Toxlla.
@Academia Nut since the HK appear to be operating on a manifest destiny type-CB, will our KOTH legacies proc on a war to save Txolla?
 
Huh. I mean, I don't think Harmurri would be down for it, but if they felt really threatened, they could offer to become our vassals.

Also, yeah, while something like an Independence Guarantee would be a little far out, surely with an above-average diplo/martial king, we could issue a threat to Highlands, something like-Attack Harmurri and you get attacked. (I mean, it's in EU4, and that's a realistic simulator, right? /s)
 
Huh. I mean, I don't think Harmurri would be down for it, but if they felt really threatened, they could offer to become our vassals.

Also, yeah, while something like an Independence Guarantee would be a little far out, surely with an above-average diplo/martial king, we could issue a threat to Highlands, something like-Attack Harmurri and you get attacked. (I mean, it's in EU4, and that's a realistic simulator, right? /s)
We basically already have the closest thing to that in the form of the intervention CB. That's why the Harmurri like us and want to stay in the games, and why they'd be pissed if we didn't intervene to defend them.
 
So can someone summarize our current status?

- - -

I don't think we lost any land from the plague and came out pretty much intact aside from the loyalty problems.

I think we should really fix our culture and religion. We have plenty of stuff on taking care of the land but morals aren't haven't really stuck to our citizens despite us trying to do the right things. We are becoming more like elves with our advanced society and the growing idea of others being beneath us.



The native tribes have a much more powerful culture then us. With them sharing a meal will prevent any fighting since it's a sacred act to them. For us only the land is truly sacred, everything else is up in the air. We don't really have any leverage in our culture that we can use to get the citizens in line.

I mean they have a origin story that believed peace to be the wishes of the Creater. We don't have that, which is part of the problem right now.

The law has to make up for our lack of a unifying culture that will keep the status que stable and mostly non violent.
 
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If the harmurri lands are being attacked we have a CB anyway; International Games and/or Pride in Acceptance gives us the Intervention CB when a Games partner is under attack. Hell, iirc we lose prestige each turn we have it available but dont take it.

The issue is that unless they declare on us using Take the Crown we don't get to use our King of the Hill Legacies. Which is a shame, but I'm not in favor of the method veekie proposed of deliberately exposing our core in the hopes they try to stab us in the heart, so we'll just have to live with it.
 
Depends on if the legacy is a strictly mechanical thing or if it has an IC reason for proking, IE, our general population being pissed about our land being invaded.

So I guess technically, if we could even try it, it would depend on if we could convince our own population of the whole "The Hamurri, our friends, gave us that land to care for! How dare the HK invade our remote lands?!"

Probably three possible outcomes. They buy it, and legacy triggers. They don't buy it but want to beat up the HK anyways for whatever reason (they like the Hamurri, the HK are being assholes, whatever), legacy doesn't trigger but war is fine. They don't buy it and are pissed at the blatant attempt at manipulation, some kinda kick in the teeth for us.
 
Depends on if the legacy is a strictly mechanical thing or if it has an IC reason for proking, IE, our general population being pissed about our land being invaded.

So I guess technically, if we could even try it, it would depend on if we could convince our own population of the whole "The Hamurri, our friends, gave us that land to care for! How dare the HK invade our remote lands?!"

Probably three possible outcomes. They buy it, and legacy triggers. They don't buy it but want to beat up the HK anyways for whatever reason (they like the Hamurri, the HK are being assholes, whatever), legacy doesn't trigger but war is fine. They don't buy it and are pissed at the blatant attempt at manipulation, some kinda kick in the teeth for us.
Even then, I doubt the Harmurri would give us land, since once we took the land we would never, ever give it up.
And I don't think it would be good for our values to try and basically trick our people in order to proc a mechanical bonus.
 
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