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Paths of Civilization

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8bitBob said:
Unfortunately, only textiles is a Guild action now. Gonna take regular actions if we want those.
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Well, we are physically incapable of doing textiles to that extent due to a lack of econ expansions.

This leaves us with ceramics which, while the give little wealth, give absurd amounts of culture. Not as much of a gain on stats as the cash crops, but again, we do not have the EE slots.
 
bluefur87 said:
Yeah, about that.
Plant Cash Crops - Textiles [Guild][Yeomen] – Planting these water and soil hungry crops can produce large quantities of useful fibres for sturdy ropes and comfortable clothing. Available: Hemp, Cotton, Flax
*S: -3 Econ, -4 Econ Expansion, +6 Wealth, +1 Diplo with boats, +1 Econ next turn other effects
*M: -5 Econ, -5 Econ Expansion, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo with boats, +1 Culture, +1 Econ next turn, other effects
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Crunch the stats - we have enough, with refunds and Panem and other actions that spend econ. Plus, we want to drop EE anyway.
 
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agumentic said:
Crunch the stats - we have enough, with refunds and Panem and the fact that those actions spend econ. Plus, we want to drop EE anyway.
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No, holy crap we do not want to drop EE.

We want to keep it low, but we are going to be burning EE on cash crops over the next couple of turns. We want it explicitly to burn. Once we get something like 6 free cities set up, we're probably going to want a lot of it.

8bitBob said:
Hmm? I believe we can. We're able to go negative EE, and then refunds will kick in.
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That's not how it works.

Let's just sit back and say 'we have perfect EE refund' for now.

The thread has a stat, I forget what it's called, that isn't tracked on the front page. I think it's LTE? It is the total of our Economy and Econ Expansion.

If LTE is less than our cap Econ Stat then we can not get to our cap econ stat without actions like Build Mills, Blacksoil, Expand Forests, and New Settlement (only one gains initial econ gains of any note and it costs wealth). Expand Economy works by converting EE straight into Econ. It is, as a result, LTE neutral. If we don't have EE then it just can't do that.

Our current LTE is 27 (Econ) + 7 (Econ Expansion). You're plan decreases that by 9, meaning that we can only get to 25 econ. This means no overflow. That is, very, very bad because overflowing econ into wealth is incredibly easy for us to do.

Do not treat EE as if it's free.
 
veekie said:
Orthrodox: "As you can see, there is no spiritual basis for the isolation and exile of those who come from other beliefs and places. But there lies a great injustice in the violence committed upon these people, which causes spiritual contamination"
Puritan: "However, observe the half-exile. Are they not tainted?"
Orthrodox: "Yes, but they have been formally judged to be tainted and through labor they expiate their taint. Your treatment of foreigners as tainted without proper judgment is itself a corruption."
Puritan: "Well look at how many half exiles come from foreign famili-"
Orthrodox Zealot: "By the spirits, you're right, we should have seen this. Outsiders truly are corrupt, and must purge their corruption through labor to become pure! It would be virtuous to purchase foreigners and purify them!" (this statement was brought to you by the Green Fish Dyers Association)
Puritan: "What, no you nitwit your blind pursuit of profit has twisted your very soul. Everyone knows your uncle pays off the clerks to put him at the top of the rotation for half exiles to take away the large amounts of snail guts he makes every day in the pursuit of corrupt lucre!"

Audience: *Falls silent*

Orthrodox: "Well, let us put that aside and resume-"

Audience: "No. Explain. In Detail."
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This is basically exactly how it went in a few places. While some have gone with a more "Actually, they have a point, is it really so bad?" tack than the "We must enslave the world to uplift them from their impure burdens!" the seed got planted, and those opposed have started to throw out accusations of corruption. You now also have orthodox Mylathads who preach against greed with a new hook that people will listen to. While many patricians are opposed to reforms because it will hurt them, more than a few of the lower ranked ones have realized that they can topple rivals and senior patricians in the way of their advancement by airing their dirty laundry. Now, many of them were also neck deep in corruption themselves, but they are both brazen enough and skilled enough at bureaucracy to hide their former misdeeds.

Your next king may be named Wylpul.
 
I want mega dam, dammit :cry:

[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)

[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [PP] City Support (4 Econ cost for True Cities offset each turn, -1 Tech)[/QUOTE]

[X] [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
[X] [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
[X] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
 
Currency crisis is returning in style soon as the realm scrambles to find the coins to pay for half exile salary. :3 Sure didn't expect that.
 
bluefur87 said:
That's not how it works.
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Yes, it is.

We can go to -5 EE (that's what overcrowding tracks) so dipping is covered.

True cities refund 1 EE for every 1 econ spent. We've got cities coming out of our ears, so that's not a problem.

The only way we lose LTE is from Sec Textiles, because it consumes 5 EE but only spends 4 econ, resulting in a loss of 1. Fortunately, we also have Baths and Aqueducts for daaays, which give an EE drip, so we're good here too.
 
bluefur87 said:
No, holy crap we do not want to drop EE.

We want to keep it low, but we are going to be burning EE on cash crops over the next couple of turns. We want it explicitly to burn. Once we get something like 6 free cities set up, we're probably going to want a lot of it.


That's not how it works.

Let's just sit back and say 'we have perfect EE refund' for now.

The thread has a stat, I forget what it's called, that isn't tracked on the front page. I think it's LTE? It is the total of our Economy and Econ Expansion.

If LTE is less than our cap Econ Stat then we can not get to our cap econ stat without actions like Build Mills, Blacksoil, Expand Forests, and New Settlement (only one gains initial econ gains of any note and it costs wealth). Expand Economy works by converting EE straight into Econ. It is, as a result, LTE neutral. If we don't have EE then it just can't do that.

Our current LTE is 27 (Econ) + 7 (Econ Expansion). You're plan decreases that by 9, meaning that we can only get to 25 econ. This means no overflow. That is, very, very bad because overflowing econ into wealth is incredibly easy for us to do.

Do not treat EE as if it's free.
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With -5 overcrowding, we effectively have 12 EE.
 
Titus Stargazer said:
Is there something I'm missing here, or is that just the dude's name.
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Spoilers for those who haven't seen the Extra History episode.

The South Sea Bubble was a scam based around artificially inflating the stock prices of the south sea company. Instead of attempting to stop this illegal practice, most of the government was in on it right up until the bubble popped, during the aftermath Robert Walpole lead the crusade on revealing his political enemies involvement while concealing his own participation in the scheme. Doing so eventually made him Prime Minister of Great Britain.
 
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8bitBob said:
We can go to -5 EE (that's what overcrowding tracks) so dipping is covered.
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agumentic said:
With -5 overcrowding, we effectively have 12 EE.
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I was unaware that is what it referred to.

It sounds like a horrible idea that I am not desperate enough to attempt though, especially when alternatives do exist.

We should at least try to take one ceramics instead of that many textiles. No need to stress the system further unless we absolutely have to.
 
Academia Nut said:
This is basically exactly how it went in a few places. While some have gone with a more "Actually, they have a point, is it really so bad?" tack than the "We must enslave the world to uplift them from their impure burdens!" the seed got planted, and those opposed have started to throw out accusations of corruption. You now also have orthodox Mylathads who preach against greed with a new hook that people will listen to. While many patricians are opposed to reforms because it will hurt them, more than a few of the lower ranked ones have realized that they can topple rivals and senior patricians in the way of their advancement by airing their dirty laundry. Now, many of them were also neck deep in corruption themselves, but they are both brazen enough and skilled enough at bureaucracy to hide their former misdeeds.

Your next king may be named Wylpul.
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So Ymaryn Watergate?
 
Haven't yet watch extra history...

First impression of Walpole is that he is a heroic diplomat. And, we're going to be in for a world of hurt.
 
bluefur87 said:
I was unaware that is what it referred to.

It sounds like a horrible idea that I am not desperate enough to attempt though, especially when alternatives do exist.

We should at least try to take one ceramics instead of that many textiles. No need to stress the system further unless we absolutely have to.
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Dipping low in EE is actually not a problem, typically, and we've done it many times. The main problem that arises from this is that it brings cities online, which it will for Lower Valleyhome in this case. Thing is, this was already going to happen when we complete the Urban Poor quest, so it basically amounts to little. Hurray for not currently having more city candidates.

If we weren't desperate for wealth then I'd be fine with Ceramics, but we are. If we end this turn without being near max wealth, we have fucked up. Textiles are how we do that this turn.
 
Kiba said:
It would be great if you could explain the references.
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Basically in the early 18th century in Britain there was some economic shenanigans that resulted in a company (the South Sea Company) becoming a bubble with a total paper worth greater than the British GDP at the time despite making no actual money through trade, and when it inevitably burst a lot of people lost all their money while some ran off like bandits. The debt incurred to the government was actually still being dealt with 300 years later (still is in all probability). Anyway, one Robert Walpole decided to take advantage of the situation by eliminating some of his rivals who had been at the heart of the situation. Only Walpole needed to make sure that he and his supporters also didn't get caught up in things because they had also been making bank off the entire scam. So he made sure that during the investigation only evidence that implicated his enemies and not him or important allies like the king ever made it to light, even if he had to make sure that the evidence could flee to a foreign country under hilarious circumstances.

He then essentially became Britain's first modern Prime Minister.
 
8bitBob said:
Dipping low in EE is actually not a problem, typically, and we've done it many times. The main problem that arises from this is that it brings cities online, which it will for Lower Valleyhome in this case. Thing is, this was already going to happen when we complete the Urban Poor quest, so it basically amounts to little. Hurray for not currently having more city candidates.

If we weren't desperate for wealth then I'd be fine with Ceramics, but we are. If we end this turn without being near max wealth, we have fucked up. Textiles are how we do that this turn.
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Sigh, it won't kill us I suppose.

I don't think you quite understand how overkill you are doing this, but I suppose we need the martial for other things anyways.
 
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