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Paths of Civilization

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2xMachina said:
"Lets go all in to support Purity by revolutionizing our entire workforce even though we will piss off all our movers and shakers."

I expect Purity to be deeply entrenched after this update.
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2xMachina said:
Sure. And I expect Purity becomes our majority faith after this.
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This isn't supporting Purity. The Puritans just used the issue to score rhetorical points, but then it started getting taken seriously (bolding mine):
Academia Nut said:
In the debates more than a few of the orthodox priests had been put on the back foot by being called out for being hypocrites, how they proclaimed all sorts of actions that the puritans decried as impure were acceptable, but that the People weren't to participate in the enslavement or shipment of slaves because it spread spiritual taint. While it was obvious that the line of argument had been intended to silence their critics over the puritanical philosophies, it had instead sparked off a new conversation. Given all the things that the priests said were tolerable to the spirits, was slavery really that bad?
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Our response to this is "yes, yes it is, and also good point the half-exiles are a little close to slaves for our liking so let's fix that." This isn't giving any support to the Puritans because they never actually cared about the half-exiles except as a political game piece. The "support the Puritans" option would be:
Academia Nut said:
[] [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
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[x][Dam] Use stronger materials, keep as is (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs)
[X][Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
 
2xMachina said:
I like how we were:
Get rid of purity!

"Then this update appears, then:

"Nope, nope, nope, Puritans are right!"
"Lets go all in to support Purity by revolutionizing our entire workforce even though we will piss off all our movers and shakers."

I expect Purity to be deeply entrenched after this update.
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That is absolutely not how it went, by the way. We started pushback against the purity being important, purity priests brought up half-exiles and slaves as an example of spiritual purity/impurity being all the difference, so we now change the half-exile situation. They are not arguing for it.
 
2xMachina said:
I like how we were:
Get rid of purity!

"Then this update appears, then:

"Nope, nope, nope, Puritans are right!"
"Lets go all in to support Purity by revolutionizing our entire workforce even though we will piss off all our movers and shakers."

I expect Purity to be deeply entrenched after this update.
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Not quite. It went like this:

Orthodox: stop being dicks
Purists: whatabout slavery
Orthodox: uh.....
P: bothsides, purges did nothing wrong
Orthodox: well no it isn't like this
Orthodox 2: wait, is slavery really bad? will it spread taint to us?
Orthodox 1: it totally will! in fact, we should look into what we do to half-exiles
Orthodox 2: nah, else Trelli War would've gone better. Slaves are fine, what can go wrong?
Orthodoxs keep bickering

Puritans: bait taken, mission success lol
 
agumentic said:
That is absolutely not how it went, by the way. We started pushback against the purity being important, purity priests brought up half-exiles and slaves as an example of spiritual purity/impurity being all the difference, so we now change the half-exile situation. They are not arguing for it.
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Academia Nut said:
The priests have become split on the issue. Some are puritanical and disliked, some believe that there is philosophically a point that slavery can't be that bad. Some are even of the opinion that by embracing slavery they can cleanse the sins of those outside the People by enforcing the half-exile ethic upon them.
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Let's see.

Priests are
1) Puritans
2) Slavery can't be that bad right? (Regular)
3) We should enslave everyone else (Unholy union of Puritan+regular Priests)
 
2xMachina said:
I like how we were:
Get rid of purity!

"Then this update appears, then:

"Nope, nope, nope, Puritans are right!"
"Lets go all in to support Purity by revolutionizing our entire workforce even though we will piss off all our movers and shakers."

I expect Purity to be deeply entrenched after this update.
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No? We're stamping down on puritan and dealing with the points they raised.
 
2xMachina said:
Let's see.

Priests are
1) Puritans
2) Slavery can't be that bad right? (Regular)
3) We should enslave everyone else (Unholy union of Puritan+regular Priests)
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Yeah, and there are also some that think that both purity (the kind puritans are practicing, at least) and slavery are wrong. AN didn't list all groups there.
 
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[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] City Support (4 Econ cost for True Cities offset each turn, -1 Tech)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x4
 
ctulhuslp said:
It might ding Purity a bit via more acceptance of people, but it's not very likely.
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What we're doing is fundamentally acknowledging that this is impure and we should fix that.

We won't be feeding into the puritan faction, but we are sure as hell feeding into the purity value.

The trait basically stops letting us be hypocrites so we are either forced to change our other values to no longer have the cognitive dissonance that has been brewing under the surface of our system for a long time now or to genuinely stop being hypocrites and own up to what we preach.
 
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2xMachina said:
Let's see.

Priests are
1) Puritans
2) Slavery can't be that bad right? (Regular)
3) We should enslave everyone else (Unholy union of Puritan+regular Priests)
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No, not at all.

Puritans - you say some taint is ok, but you also say taint of slavery is unacceptable. Hypocrisy much?
Orthodox A: You are correct. Let's make taint of slavery acceptable! And by the way, you are dissolved.
Orthodox B: Hmmm, Puritans do have a point, it seems. If half exiles are tainted, than these filthy outsiders must be as well. And by the way, well done.
Orthodox C: It's not like that. Cause it isn't.
Orthodox D: Puritans do have a point. The current treatment of half exiles is unacceptable. They are nearly slaves. Let's correct this! And this does not excuse the shit you are pulling, by the way.
Orthodox E: Heaven will show us the way!

Only A and D are pushing back against Puritans as well.
 
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Assuming we're not in a war:

[Main] Great Dam (-2 econ, -2 wealth, -2 tech)
[sec] Great Hall Annex (-2 econ, -2 culture)
[sec] Temple (-3 econ -3 culture)
[sec] Invite Forhuch
[sec] Enforce Justice
[sec] Expand Econ (6 econ, -2 tech)
[sec] Support Faction (trader)
[Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-5 econ, -5 expansion, 7 wealth, 2 diplomacy, 1 culture, 1 econ next turn)
[Guild] Build Dock (-2 econ, -2 wealth, 3 diplomacy)
[Guild sec] Efficient Charcoal Kiln (-1 econ, -2 wealth, -2 tech, -2 sustainable forest)

-2 -2 -3 -5 -2 - 1
-4 - 8 - 3
-15 + 6
-9
27 - (2 refugee) - 9 = 16 econ

-2 -2 -2 + 7 = 1 wealth

Completing the Great Hall annex will trigger governmental upgrade and let us fail the patrician quest with no consequence. Support faction will buy us more time to do a More Warship action. Starting on a temple somewhere will allow us to finish the project with only 3 progress.

We have 11 progress available.

Temple (3)
Market Valleyguard (3)
Market Redhills (3)
Market Blackmouth (2)

We will get two markets online, giving us a total of 4 wealth income, briniging us from 2+ to 6+ per turn.
 
Kiba said:
Assuming we're not in a war:

[Main] Great Dam (-2 econ, -2 wealth, -2 tech)
[sec] Great Hall Annex (-2 econ, -2 culture)
[sec] Temple (-3 econ -3 culture)
[sec] Invite Forhuch
[sec] Enforce Justice
[sec] Expand Econ (6 econ, -2 tech)
[sec] Support Faction (trader)
[Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-5 econ, -5 expansion, 7 wealth, 2 diplomacy, 1 culture, 1 econ next turn)
[Guild] Build Dock (-2 econ, -2 wealth, 3 diplomacy)
[Guild sec] Efficient Charcoal Kiln (-1 econ, -2 wealth, -2 tech, -2 sustainable forest)

-2 -2 -3 -5 -2 - 1
-4 - 8 - 3
-15 + 6
-9
27 - (2 refugee) - 9 = 16 econ

-2 -2 -2 + 7 = 1 wealth

Completing the Great Hall annex will trigger governmental upgrade and let us fail the patrician quest with no consequence. Support faction will buy us more time to do a More Warship action. Starting on a temple somewhere will allow us to finish the project with only 3 progress.

We have 11 progress available.

Temple (3)
Market Valleyguard (3)
Market Redhills (3)
Market Blackmouth (2)

We will get two markets online, giving us a total of 4 wealth income, briniging us from 2+ to 6+ per turn.
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> no Offensive Policy

Naah. Wardec them.
 
Kiba said:
Assuming we're not in a war:
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We have every single reason to go to war.

The Highlanders or whatever they are now are xenophobic extremists that seek to set the lowlands on fire. Considering most of their army is out of position and easy for us to get to, smacking them hard is a very real thing we want to do.
 
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bluefur87 said:
We have every single reason to go to war.

The Highlanders or whatever they are now are xonophobic extremists that seek to set the lowlands on fire. Considering most of their army is out of position and easy for us to get to, smacking them hard is a very real thing we want to do.
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It is truly fascinating how the Highlanders always do their utmost to get on the top of our shitlist.

...still survived it so far, though.
 
agumentic said:
Except being in a good position to start that war. I say it'll depend on how things are going in the lowland, though I would very much like to hire Banners to Hammuri.
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We are in an amazing position to start the war.

We won't be able to conquer territory, sure, but their entire army lacks light cavalry and they are engaging in open terrain for miles.

We have 4 light cavalry and everyone in the lowlands loves us to some level so they will welcome us as liberators and saviors.

This is going to get ugly for them.
 
Honestly the biggest problem with war is that the provinces will want to raise our martial somehow and likely won't accept our "overflow econ" strategy. This is a major problem when it's virtually impossible to use any of those actions without crashing our Wealth.

That being said, we almost certainly will win the war so long as we don't try to take their fortified mountains.
 
agumentic said:
Except being in a good position to start that war. I say it'll depend on how things are going in the lowland, though I would very much like to hire Banners to Hammuri.
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Their armies are in the Lowland. We're in a good position to sweep them from the field using our cavalry while Red Banner attack or bottle up the HK from the pass. Txolla will push against them from the East together with the Harmurri.

If we're taking territory, I advise the length of the Great River until we meet up with the Harmurri and if possible their pass. It will be a pain in the ass to siege their fortifications one at a time, so we may not invade their core territory proper.
 
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