Boiling your water for a while does work for pretty much everything though. Maybe not endotoxins, but we're not injection things.
This bacteria spreads by aerosolized mucus droplets. Might as well try to stop seasonal flu by boiling your bathwater. Most of the infection happens at work or at home, rather than the baths.

The baths help because being cleaner overall reduces the degree that your immune system has to spread itself wide.
 
Edit: Also, heat isn't a complete cureall, especially for things that don't even pass through whatever it is you're heating. What works for cholera doesn't necessarily work for other things.
I gotcha- didn't know about the "immunity from milk" thing, thought you were saying it would transfer from person to person in our baths
 
I imagine that only means we get harder by it at the start.

Afterwards with it active in our polity, I imagine we will lower it to standard.

Still pretty bad :/
Polio already is part of our population. Assuming things are generally the same. It's been an endemic disease in human populations IRL since at least Ancient Egypt. It only becomes a problem when things get cleaner and fewer people are immune to it on a massive and lengthy scale.
Article:
Ancient Egyptian paintings and carvings depict otherwise healthy people with withered limbs, and children walking with canes at a young age.[4] It is theorized that the Roman Emperor Claudius was stricken as a child, and this caused him to walk with a limp for the rest of his life.[5] Perhaps the earliest recorded case of poliomyelitis is that of Sir Walter Scott. In 1773 Scott was said to have developed "a severe teething fever which deprived him of the power of his right leg".[6] At the time, polio was not known to medicine. A retrospective diagnosis of polio is considered to be strong due to the detailed account Scott later made,[7] and the resultant lameness of his left leg had an important effect on his life and writing.[8]

The symptoms of poliomyelitis have been described by many names. In the early nineteenth century the disease was known variously as: Dental Paralysis, Infantile Spinal Paralysis, Essential Paralysis of Children, Regressive Paralysis, Myelitis of the Anterior Horns, Tephromyelitis (from the Greek tephros, meaning "ash-gray") and Paralysis of the Morning.[9]In 1789 the first clinical description of poliomyelitis was provided by the British physician Michael Underwood—he refers to polio as "a debility of the lower extremities".[10] The first medical report on poliomyelitis was by Jakob Heine, in 1840; he called the disease Lähmungszustände der unteren Extremitäten ("Paralysis of the lower Extremities").[11] Karl Oskar Medin was the first to empirically study a poliomyelitis epidemic in 1890.[12] This work, and the prior classification by Heine, led to the disease being known as Heine-Medin disease.
 
Last edited:
Polio already is part of our population. Assuming things are generally the same. It's been an endemic disease in human populations IRL since at least Ancient Egypt. It only becomes a problem when things get cleaner and fewer people are immune to it on a massive and lengthy scale.
Article:
Ancient Egyptian paintings and carvings depict otherwise healthy people with withered limbs, and children walking with canes at a young age.[4] It is theorized that the Roman Emperor Claudius was stricken as a child, and this caused him to walk with a limp for the rest of his life.[5] Perhaps the earliest recorded case of poliomyelitis is that of Sir Walter Scott. In 1773 Scott was said to have developed "a severe teething fever which deprived him of the power of his right leg".[6] At the time, polio was not known to medicine. A retrospective diagnosis of polio is considered to be strong due to the detailed account Scott later made,[7] and the resultant lameness of his left leg had an important effect on his life and writing.[8]

The symptoms of poliomyelitis have been described by many names. In the early nineteenth century the disease was known variously as: Dental Paralysis, Infantile Spinal Paralysis, Essential Paralysis of Children, Regressive Paralysis, Myelitis of the Anterior Horns, Tephromyelitis (from the Greek tephros, meaning "ash-gray") and Paralysis of the Morning.[9]In 1789 the first clinical description of poliomyelitis was provided by the British physician Michael Underwood—he refers to polio as "a debility of the lower extremities".[10] The first medical report on poliomyelitis was by Jakob Heine, in 1840; he called the disease Lähmungszustände der unteren Extremitäten ("Paralysis of the lower Extremities").[11] Karl Oskar Medin was the first to empirically study a poliomyelitis epidemic in 1890.[12] This work, and the prior classification by Heine, led to the disease being known as Heine-Medin disease.
So to our people it's already "just one of those things." Why do you say we'll get hit hard with it in a matter of time?
 
So to our people it's already "just one of those things." Why do you say we'll get hit hard with it in a matter of time?
See this:
It's spread through fecal-oral transmission. You would think that sanitation would make this better and technically it does, but avoiding shit particles is pretty much impossible even in the modern era. They just get places. Recall the polio epidemic of the early-mid 20th century. Would you argue that the Ymaryn have better sanitation and medical practices?

The thing is, infants are generally immune to polio when breastfeeding, so long as their mothers were exposed to the virus at some point in their past (and thus developed immunity). In lower sanitation conditions, infants would often be exposed to the virus while they had this immunity from their mothers leading them to develop their own natural immunity. In cleaner conditions, the infant never develops their own immunity to the virus, and then loses the protection they had from their mothers milk. As a result, they are far more likely to be exposed to the virus and develop the disease without the presence of their mothers protection to blunt the effects.

It's a bit paradoxical, but cleaner living conditions actually lead to a higher incidence of polio. So, unless you can get the world completely sterile, you're gonna have a polio problem as things get cleaner.

Edit: The problems in the 50's we're only compounded by the invention of formula milk. If you are having kids, breastfeed at least a little bit. It's extremely good for them.

Edit: Also, heat isn't a complete cureall, especially for things that don't even pass through whatever it is you're heating. What works for cholera doesn't necessarily work for other things.

Edit: This is also a very simplistic explanation.
Polio was also already part of human populations IRL, too, but changes in sanitation and infant nutrition and lower immunity as a society overall caused the epidemic.
 
Last edited:
This bacteria spreads by aerosolized mucus droplets. Might as well try to stop seasonal flu by boiling your bathwater. Most of the infection happens at work or at home, rather than the baths.

The baths help because being cleaner overall reduces the degree that your immune system has to spread itself wide.
I interpreted the post I was responding to more broadly about bacteria/viruses in water. As far as I know you can in fact kill basically anything by boiling it long enough, including polio which was the microorganism mentioned in the post. You can in fact kill the bacteria by boiling the mucus droplets.
The fact that that is so impractical as to be impossible, and boiling the water you use won't keep you from getting any disease is not what I was talking about.

As the post I quoted has been edited to be more clear, I see my comment was not needed. So I apologize for wasting people's time. Why did I still type all of this out? Good question. Whoops, still wasting more time. Sorry.
 
Last edited:
So to our people it's already "just one of those things." Why do you say we'll get hit hard with it in a matter of time?
May want to recall the very high childhood mortality of premodern times.
These diseases are why. Anyone who survived all those in an urban environment hits adulthood with a pretty comprehensive set of immunities.

Removing them, then, saves a lot of children, but also strips those particular immunities from the group, opening them back up
 
May want to recall the very high childhood mortality of premodern times.
These diseases are why. Anyone who survived all those in an urban environment hits adulthood with a pretty comprehensive set of immunities.

Removing them, then, saves a lot of children, but also strips those particular immunities from the group, opening them back up
Gonna have to hurry up with vaccination... It's not like by the time we get that clean our people won't have had the idea literally for millennia.
 
Relevant actions for calcing out stats:

[X] [Main] Great Dam (-2 Econ)
[X] [Secondary] Change Passive Policy (2x Forestry -> 2x Infrastructure)
[X] [Secondary] Expand Econ (+6 Econ, -6 EE, -2 Tech)
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall (-2 Econ, -2 Culture)
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission – Forhuch (-2 Wealth, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo)
[X] [Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinshore Colony (-2 Diplo, Transfer 2 Econ, Wealth, Culture, Tech, and Mysticism)
[X] [Guild Main] Plant Poppies (-3 Econ, -3 Econ Expansion, +1 Mysticism, +7 Wealth, new trade good)
[X] [Guild Main] Expand Snail Cultivation (-1 Econ, +1 Wealth, +1 Culture, potential additional effects)
[X] [Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation (-3 Econ, +3 Wealth, +1 Culture, increased chance of additional effects)
Provinces – [Main] Expand Econ, [Main] New Settlement (Northern Blackriver), [Sec] Build Glassworks, [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
Policies – Redshore Market (5/6), Significant Walls (34/66)
FC – Redshore Market (6/6), Redshore Baths (4/6), Redhills Colossal Walls (1/9), Valleyguard Colossal Walls (1/9)
 
Oh whoa, some surprising province and policy actions right there! Provinces doing us a favor with that Hunt Troublemakers, policies prioritizing Markets 2 over Baths, and Free Cities prioritizing Colossal Walls.
 
Provinces – [Main] Expand Econ, [Main] New Settlement (Northern Blackriver), [Sec] Build Glassworks, [Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
Policies – Redshore Market (5/6), Significant Walls (34/66)
FC – Redshore Market (6/6), Redshore Baths (4/6), Redhills Colossal Walls (1/9), Valleyguard Colossal Walls (1/9)
Some fascinating policy actions. I dig it though.
I'm stoked to see Hunt Troublemakers, though I'm interested on the narrative it takes as a province action. Redhills & Valleyguard feeling the need for Colossal Walls is highly informative of sentiments there - perhaps we should trust them and maintain or add to that Defence Passive Policy? - and indicative that we might be safe with regards to forest consumption 2 turns down the line as our Infrastructure Policies might finish those off if Redhills and Valleyguard continue progressing them. Redshore is primed to become a Level 3 City fairly soon - personally I'm fine with this, though I'd like an Academy there first.
 
Last edited:
[Sec] Build Glassworks
Uh.
Doesn't it cost Econ? o_O

Ahh. It costs Econ 1, and there was 1 Econ left over. Okay then.
Forest slots though. Without Forestries we are on a timer. Although with the other Infras actions...
[Sec] Hunt Troublemakers

Good job, provinces.

Redhills Colossal Walls (1/9), Valleyguard Colossal Walls (1/9)

YASSSSS
Okay, this part makes Infras way nicer in my eyes. If they finish those and keep walling our border cities, I may consider turning on 3rd Infrastructure.
Thank Crow they stopped going full urbanization.
 
Interesting, so our Free Cities really want those Colossal walls.

Now the question is whether they want them due to the nomads or for increased city attraction? Or for some other reason?
 
Back
Top