Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
The 36 is probably from the new arrivals not using forestry correctly and locking up additional sustainable forests through bad practice.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
No, the 36 is raw demand without charcoal kilns and any other things that reduce it. We're fine there.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay. I'm not sure what the stats mean, and want to seek AN's answer so I am doing so. Hopefully he confirms what you think and its not a problem.
If there's a problem, I suspect the cause to be from Forestry policy.
AN has been surprisingly quiet on the no-innovation on policy question.
As far as I know, he has been asked like twice with no response.
He did respond to the no-econ on policy question tho.
My head-cannon, Forestry policy is fucking things up.
The idea that efficient charcoal kilns could be problematic is confusing. The mechanics just represent the fact that we're using less wood to produce the charcoal than if we'd used traditional methods, thus lowering our demand. The reason both usage stats are tracked is because it doesn't allow us to just make additional sustainable wood out of thin air.
Long term, if we manage to build enough Kilns, I imagine the stat will just disappear and we'll see a sustainable forests cost reduction for anything that uses charcoal, possibly with an increased cost to Expand Forests to represent us just building Kilns as needed.
Long term, if we manage to build enough Kilns, I imagine the stat will just disappear and we'll see a sustainable forests cost reduction for anything that uses charcoal, possibly with an increased cost to Expand Forests to represent us just building Kilns as needed.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Going to lock in as:
[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Change Passive Policy (2x Forestry -> 2x Infrastructure)
[X] [Secondary] Expand Econ
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Forhuch
[X] [Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinshore Colony
[X] [Guild Main] Plant Poppies
[X] [Guild Main] Expand Snail Cultivation
[X] [Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
And now to figure everything out.
[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Change Passive Policy (2x Forestry -> 2x Infrastructure)
[X] [Secondary] Expand Econ
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Forhuch
[X] [Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinshore Colony
[X] [Guild Main] Plant Poppies
[X] [Guild Main] Expand Snail Cultivation
[X] [Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
And now to figure everything out.
I mean, sure, but it's also at least somewhat awesome. Don't know of any diseases that actually actively use immune system to kill other bacteria. I am not a microbiologist, but couldn't it further evolve to be less dangerous to its host?
Hmm, soon-to-be antibiotic?
That's what they are right? Bacteria that kills other bacteria without harming the host (as much)
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Somebody originally voted for Tinshore and then more people voted for it to ensure that an influence won the vote rather than having the votes split between two different influences that of which neither would have enough votes to be in the winning vote.
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's going to be a loooooong time into the future. The People have several pathogens that are endemic to the population in any case. The Horseman's Plague is just one of the scarier ones. The Comet Plague, the one that hit around Gwygoytha's time, the usual human diseases like polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc. The only one we have basically eliminated is smallpox.
TBH, given our sanitation practices it's only a matter of time before we see polio becoming a problem.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Symbiotic relationships aren't unheard of in bacteria, sure. But "will it keep across host populations" is the issue. If we hit the age of sail before it fully becomes symbiotic, someone is gonna have a bad time
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not sure about that. We heat our baths to boiling before we use them, based on what we learned in the cholera cure thing- wouldn't this kill off the bacteria or whatever for polio?
Similarly, why did we go with Expand Snails sec exactly? Were we low on Econ or EE or something? It's pretty terrible for wealth generation compared to Cotton secondary. While it's fine to worry about potential long term concerns about cheap labour, we kind of need that wealth at the moment, and it would have diversified our wealth generation pretty nicely.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Narrative, also we haven't done it in ages
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Similarly, once the dam is completed, doing another one would probably be helpful, narratively.
We were in fact low on econ, but mainly people went for it for narrative reasons.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No. That isn't what antibiotics are at all.
Antibiotics are compounds derived from bacteria or fungus (or entirely artificial) and artificially produced. These toxins target and kill bacteria.
There are quite a few that do this. Particularly in the gut.
As for evolving to be less damaging to the host? Sure, it's possible, but there has to be selective pressure for it. Sometimes that pressure is countered by the need to spread and infect others, and the need for an energy source. The reason gut flora are symbiotic is because we provide them with a food source, and we use some parts of their waste. What exactly do you think the bacteria in the lungs are eating? They need an energy source of some kind.
I think you're also turning this into some sort of magical immunity advantage. They really aren't. The human immune system is a wonderfully adaptive thing and is evolved to specifically hunt and kill invasive bodies. You really think a bacteria could do better?
Let's try an analogy, this is something more akin to one terrorist group pointing a government at another terrorist group.
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I mean, I guess, but we were already doing the much better Main strength version and planting cash crops. I doubt we're going to see any narrative benefits out of this. Would have been better to do something like:
[][Guild Main] Snails
[][Guild Main] Snails
[][Guild Sec] Cotton
The double main would have had guaranteed bonus, less overall cash crop planting and one more wealth generated. Snails sec really just sucks as an action.
- Location
- Hell
Actuallt both are artifacts from people hijacking @bluefur87 and my plan.
Influence Tinriver arised from the fact that Greenshore presently does have a reason to stay with Ymaryn and does not like the West Storm Ymaryn. Tinriver is our furthest colony so more likely to break off
Secondary snail was to gather just enough wealth without lowering our Economic Expansion slots too much. At the same time we would still lower it enough to reactivate two cities and start next turn with 24 Econ.
The plan also ensured that the provinces could not do anything about it.
That all required the Secondary Snail Cultivation.
The 'desire' for it came much later to rationalize why it was there.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, actually.
Polio isn't a bacteria, for one, and it's spread through fecal-oral transmission. You would think that sanitation would make this better and technically it does, but avoiding shit particles is pretty much impossible even in the modern era. They just get places. Recall the polio epidemic of the early-mid 20th century. Would you argue that the Ymaryn have better sanitation and medical practices?
The thing is, infants are generally immune to polio when breastfeeding, so long as their mothers were exposed to the virus at some point in their past (and thus developed immunity). In lower sanitation conditions, infants would often be exposed to the virus while they had this immunity from their mothers leading them to develop their own natural immunity. In cleaner conditions, the infant never develops their own immunity to the virus, and then loses the protection they had from their mothers milk. As a result, they are far more likely to be exposed to the virus and develop the disease without the presence of their mothers protection to blunt the effects.
It's a bit paradoxical, but cleaner living conditions actually lead to a higher incidence of polio. So, unless you can get the world completely sterile, you're gonna have a polio problem as things get cleaner.
Edit: The problems in the 50's we're only compounded by the invention of formula milk. If you are having kids, breastfeed at least a little bit. It's extremely good for them.
Edit: Also, heat isn't a complete cureall, especially for things that don't even pass through whatever it is you're heating. What works for cholera doesn't necessarily work for other things.
Edit: This is also a very simplistic explanation.
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- Location
- Hell
I imagine that only means we get harder by it at the start.
Afterwards with it active in our polity, I imagine we will lower it to standard.
Still pretty bad :/
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Feel free to ask about the impact of kilns, but I'm really pretty sure that 29{36}/34 is a direct implementation of @PrimalShadow 's suggestion on how to represent actual forests in use, virtual forests in use, and total forests. The only thing I can think of about {36}/34 is that if somehow we decided to shut our kilns down or they were selectively destroyed without destroying any baths, ironworks, etc. then we would be overusing forests.
If we can't have the {} number higher than the / number, then kilns are literally useless - does that seem at all likely?
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Romv
A Memory of TREES
Boiling your water for a while does work for pretty much everything though. Maybe not endotoxins, but we're not injection things.