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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)x2
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore) x2
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore) x3
[X] [React] Expand Palace (2xGreat Hall Annexes)

I don't really care which PSN we take, so long as it costs 2 cent, so we can Road more.
 
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fictionfan said:
Would it be possible for us to make a public library for the nomads so that they have a cultural memory longer then 3 generations?
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The issues with that is kinda big.
  • Distant from protection and thus vulnerable or costy to station troop.
  • Lack of literacy among tribes and their slightly different spoken language.
  • Lack of stable environment for road, and occasional flood/drought.
  • Who wants to live there? It's sort of an exile punishment. Like being sent to station a tiny rock island in the middle of Pacific Ocean. :p
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)x2
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
Andres110 said:
Academia Nut says we can mitigate the PiA erosion by taking in more refugees, so generating more refugees is something we want to do.
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That is true yes.
However we do not have the Stability to tank more refugees at the moment, and more refugees would...complicate our value erosion problem, because while it reinforces PiA, it erodes all our values by adding a significant portion of new population who don't have our values.

Its something we want to do, but it's not a Right Now issue.
VoidZero said:
Average dipo and hero myth/admin king is pretty hopeful at doing positive thing with reconciliation, but the underlying issues of shitty conditions that half-exile/different cultured people face isn't touched.
Conversation is all well and good, but what does do for those took up mono-faith due to hardship? I think having more population movement (road), less criminal trap (problem lower court), or new work opportunity (new market under reaction vote) would go further than having a dialogue. Doesn't having a dialogue also give some legitimacy to a troubling idea? It's not something we really want.
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The problem here:
-Roads won't make a dent into the connectivity issue. We needed roads centuries ago. Roads now won't really fix it.

-Lower courts don't do anything for enclaves of the tainted either. Their community leaders judging them are also of the 'tainted' even if we reform that.

-Markets don't do anything at all. Markets are in our major cities. The 'tainted' are in semi-independent villages.

I have no idea where you're getting people going into monotheism due to hardship. There are currently no social or economic benefits to monotheism, they are monotheist refugees fleeing collapse and persecution.

The reconciliation then, relegates the problem to a religious debate, presided over by a priest-king. Its our age old religious crisis solution:
-Patricians and guilds step aside.
-Priests from all sides gather.
-People of both faiths buy popcorn.

The debate floor is open to find reconciliation through priests screaming at each other.
 
VoidZero said:
The issues with that is kinda big.
  • Distant from protection and thus vulnerable or costy to station troop.
  • Lack of literacy among tribes and their slightly different spoken language.
  • Lack of stable environment for road, and occasional flood/drought.
  • Who wants to live there? It's sort of an exile punishment. Like being sent to station a tiny rock island in the middle of Pacific Ocean. :p
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Ya, it is just annoying how the Nomads have no memory. Maybe make a theater? Or commission a performance troop that goes around all the nearby lands.
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore) x2
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)

Ok, let's see if we can't get Greenshore and Western Wall back onside. Tinriver won't be as much of an issue without them on their side and it's Greenshore that's the real problem child. I don't think we need the stability too much, we can afford to wait until the next main turn if Uvothyn lives that long.
 
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Wiadi said:
I agree that lack of connectivity exacerbates a lot of our problems, but when they've reached this stage, building roads is at best a start on a long, slow solution - which I don't think we can afford here. We need to nip this in the bud before it gets worse, under a king worse suited to handle it.
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veekie said:
Roads are a Too Little Too Late solution. They help, but we should have built thrice as many roads years ago. Building one more set is not going to be nearly sufficient.
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I agree that it's a much better short-term solution, and because we don't know how much longer we'll have Uvothyn for, I certainly see the appeal.

I accept that we may wish to take it to prevent immediate problems. I am not sure, however, that it will prove a permanent solution. We will need interconnectivity and we will need some system for resolving disputes arising from religious cosmopolitanism to make a truly stable legacy. It is quite possible that Reconciliation will provide the latter (as Cleaning Courts almost certainly will), but it will not provide the former.

I'll vote for it when the stats are up, because I do agree that this is a problem best addressed quickly, but this is probably not the last we'll see of this issue.
 
Wiadi said:
Wait what territory does WW give us continuity to? If we're not doing multiple Influence Subordinates (which, I agree, we probably can't afford) then we can presume the further-west colonies are just as forfeit as WW would be if we ignored it.
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I meant that WW is continuous land wrt us.

Andres110 said:
PiA means the first two waves don't cost Stability. We'd need to take three waves to have even a chance of Stability loss.
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Good point. I still am not comfortable with remaining at -2 (first vote) while King is soon dying.
 
veekie said:
-Markets don't do anything at all. Markets are in our major cities. The 'tainted' are in semi-independent villages.

I have no idea where you're getting people going into monotheism due to hardship. There are currently no social or economic benefits to monotheism, they are monotheist refugees fleeing collapse and persecution.
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I view half-exiles joining the mono-faith largely due to our current faith's inability of getting improvement in half-exile's life and their children's life without offering any hope nor reason. The mono-faith gives the half-exiles hope for better future by saying all are wrong because every other faith are wrong and corrupt, this is an easy channel to blame "other" for all the woe. Our non half-exiles and half-exiles are no stranger to our faith, but only half-exiles are converting over to mono-faith in large numbers, so it must be something that is largely applicable to half-exiles and not other groups; leaving hardship or lack of possible improvement as likely candidate.

Also, i think markets in cities will lead to smaller versions in villages and towns; so it would lower people's requirement of working in less physical demanding jobs and getting some development in small time business. And associated small business law and taxation. :ogles:
 
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Janadus said:
I'm sure the Storm Tribes would beg to differ. :V
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Center, as in, the cultural, economic, and social center of civilization, typically the leading great power or superpower. Storm Tribes does not qualify AFAIK.

Something like The Roman Empire, The Arab World during their golden age, Renaissance Italy, the UK during the industrial revolution, and the US today.
 
VoidZero said:
Conversation is all well and good, but what does it do for those took up mono-faith due to hardship? I think having more population movement (road), less criminal trap (problem lower court), or new work opportunity (new market under reaction vote) would go further than having a dialogue. Doesn't having a dialogue also give some legitimacy to a troubling idea? It's not something we really want.
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I agree that more roads, court reforms, and markets are all good long-term goals. However, I don't think they're as urgent as a direct resolution to this particular facet of the problem - after which we can work on correcting the underlying factors which enabled it.
Janadus said:
I accept that we may wish to take it to prevent immediate problems. I am not sure, however, that it will prove a permanent solution. We will need interconnectivity and we will need some system for resolving disputes arising from religious cosmopolitanism to make a truly stable legacy. It is quite possible that Reconciliation will provide the latter (as Cleaning Courts almost certainly will), but it will not provide the former.

I'll vote for it when the stats are up, because I do agree that this is a problem best addressed quickly, but this is probably not the last we'll see of this issue.
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You're probably right, unfortunately, and I'm definitely all in favor of working on our roads once doing so won't send our Centralization into the red (which should hopefully be soon, thanks to PSN).
Kiba said:
The relative center of the western world is the Ymaryn.

It is likely that in the future, Ymaryn civilizational value will spread to the west through cultural diffusion and settlements.
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...what. We are not in the West as it is conceived IRL, we are in the Middle East. How are we possibly the "center of the Western world"? And, for that matter, why will we ever be? Our culture can diffuse east just as easily as it can west, if not more so, since we have the Harmurri engaging in trade further to the east whereas Trelli (which traded west into the Mediterranean) just imploded.
 
Can we replace the salt in salt gift with some other material? If they claim to own the Salt Sea, they're not going to be impressed by salt. Maybe we could substitute some gold or maybe a nice poppy seed bun?

Also, did it seem to anyone else like the tone of this update was unusually informal?
 
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Expand Palace (2xGreat Hall Annexes)

Because Trading is better than fighting and would allow us to btter concentrate on internal matters.
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)

EWilanO said:
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Expand Palace (2xGreat Hall Annexes)

Because Trading is better than fighting and would allow us to btter concentrate on internal matters.
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Where are you getting the Wealth to salt gift with?
 
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