AN had a statement on this. Where was it...
Oh, yes.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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Oh, yes.
... We need the dam and lowlands canal as soon as possible, then.
Don't exaggerate. We lost .5 forest slots. And that is while using our King actions to build a Forest Intensive extended-project and taking a forest-intensive Guild Action, both of which are very much rare.
Kilns cover 12 more slots right now - but that is very much the wrong way of looking at it. If we around our forest cap (currently 28), for us to have maxed our out Kiln discounts, we would need to be using 56 "raw" forests. Half of that (28) is how much discounts we can get out of Kilns.
Or to put it another way. If we build up 28 discounts worth of Kilns right now, we would be able to support up to 56 forest usage with our current forest supply.
Even with the 3 points we already used, that is EIGHT turns, not four.
We absolutely have such an option. And we likely need it to get the Priest Quest finished.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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*looks back at our insightful king's shitton of passive forest policies*
*also looks at Western Wall's Main Forest last turn*
*finally looks at the kinda high # of actions we have these days*
hmm... Idk. Kilns for days sounds good. Kilns till we cap out, then forest, then kilns.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Good point, but I've sat down and mathed it out for the next two updates.
We either take the main PSN forest which gives +1and then in the update after take a kiln for net +4.
Or we take the PSN expand econ and finish the priest quest. Then with the econ that gives do double kilns and level 2 Ironworks which should take two more forest for a net +4. Wealth hovers around 5 in either case(as I talked about previously, that will start rising in three updates).
E: this is kinda a case where taking a non-obvious set of actions will actually get you more than you might expect of whatever it is you want.
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That was for the turn income overflow. We don't know how action overflow will compare.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
I was commenting on the idea of going accelerationism on our forests.
Of course we'll need more and more trees. Trees are awesome.
Trees are everything. How dare you question my desire for more trees.
Did you even mean to quote me on this?
- Location
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wait, what?
Every kiln removes 3 used slots, up to half of the whole usage; it means Kilns can remove up to 15 (if we get to 30 usage while we are doing it) used slots.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
"Note: Efficient Charcoal production cannot take the total Sustainable Forest usage below 1/2 of the total"
I'm assuming "the total" = the total # of forests?
If so, we have a total # of 28. 1/2 of 28 is 14. 28 + 14 = 42. We would need to be using 42 raw forests.
If not, it would be 1/2 of the total sustainable forest usage which is like... we get up to 28, we kiln to 14, we get up to 28, we kiln to 14, in a never-ending cycle. Which is simply improbable.
I calculated before. We theoretically have enough land to fund an industrial revolution up into somewhere in the 19th century. But we need the land for everything else as well, such as pasture and farmland.
But demand for charcoal is only going to keep growing, and then there won't simply be enough land.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
There's always the steppe. Or invading other people. Or inventing solar power early.
Simple, because the Western Wall scribes were paid more than a 1000-coin salary.
At the bottom of my abstract post, I note that the term coin really functioned as a simpler term for utility points. Western Wall was able to offer more utility points as a colony capital than as a province capital. It's positions were more prestigious, had more influence, and offered more opportunities than before their integration. After the integration, they would have to increase the utility points on offer in other ways (cash, infrastructure, priveleges, etc.) to maintain the same workforce.
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We will have a chance to colonize the steppes once we have sufficiently mature gunpowder and logistics, but don't be surprised if there are other people are making the same landgrab.
Inventing photovoltaic(I am assuming this is what you mean) is a bit iffy, because it is a late 19th century invention.
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Got to say, it's kinda amusing how annoyed the pirates must be after this turn. It went from a free-for-all in which everyone was scrambling to protect their own interests, to almost everyone stopping their wars, and as one deciding to go kill some pirates.
I mean, the Trelli want to kill pirates, cause fuck them for disrupting trade when they need all the wealth they can get.
The Freehills hired 2 banners and now have nobody to really fight with them, so why not go kill some pirates?
The fucking yeomen decided that it was more lucrative to go kill pirates.
And the Ymaryn just are vaguely annoyed at the whole situation, so why not go kill some pirates who keep attacking their shipping?
I mean, the Trelli want to kill pirates, cause fuck them for disrupting trade when they need all the wealth they can get.
The Freehills hired 2 banners and now have nobody to really fight with them, so why not go kill some pirates?
The fucking yeomen decided that it was more lucrative to go kill pirates.
And the Ymaryn just are vaguely annoyed at the whole situation, so why not go kill some pirates who keep attacking their shipping?
BungieONI
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Ehhhhhh is about the answer.
The biggest issue is the mind-boggling amounts of sheet metal you need. Kiba has actually explored this before.
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oooooh I get what @PrimalShadow meant; I think he meant it as "stockpiling Kilns for the future", basically, where we build more than currently useful and 'grow into it'.
It still does not make any sense, I think. @PrimalShadow , could you clarify, please?
Until well after the industrial revolution happens, and ideally placed in a desert or an always sunny location. It can be made to work, but whether the economic is sound, is another question.
Right now, there are no industrial solar furnace other than for research that I know of.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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photovoltaic, solar powered water heating, molten silicon boilers, whichever.
We already had this discussion tho. I don't want to summon veekie.
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What do y'all mean by solar furnaces? What temperature are we talking?
Solar cooker - Wikipedia
Sheet metal would be interesting, as a reflector. It would take a fair amount of money (reduced by our ironworks) for any large-scale implementation but the metal doesn't need to be strong or thick, just shiny. Glass + coating would be more reasonable, though.
For smaller cooker style things it's fairly plausible.
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I just looked over our actions, and I had a slightly distrubing insight.
If you look at our seven resource stats, the actions which generate at least 1 point per secondary are:
Furthermore, of these, Build Theatre, {S} Expand Snail Cultivation, and New Settlement give you exactly one stat per secondary. If you want to go faster than that at all, only Expand Economy and Retraining are left. And Retraining isn't all that hot either.
So really, we are at the point in our development that basically ALL the stat gains in our polity come from turn income, one-time gains (refugee econ, tribute from wars, megaproject payouts, etc)... and the Expand Economy action.
Just something to think on.
If you look at our seven resource stats, the actions which generate at least 1 point per secondary are:
- Build Chariots
- Build Glassworks (takes a Forest)
- Build Porcelain Works (takes a Forest)
- Build Theatre
- Distribute Land (costs Cent, is generally undesirable)
- Expand Economy
- {S} Expand Snail Cultivation
- Expand Vineyard (costs LTE)
- More Blackbirds
- More Carrion Eaters
- New Settlement
- Plant Cotton/Hemp/Poppies (costs LTE)
- Raise Army
- Retraining
- Build Theatre
- Expand Economy
- {S} Expand Snail Cultivation
- New Settlement
- Retraining
Furthermore, of these, Build Theatre, {S} Expand Snail Cultivation, and New Settlement give you exactly one stat per secondary. If you want to go faster than that at all, only Expand Economy and Retraining are left. And Retraining isn't all that hot either.
So really, we are at the point in our development that basically ALL the stat gains in our polity come from turn income, one-time gains (refugee econ, tribute from wars, megaproject payouts, etc)... and the Expand Economy action.
Just something to think on.
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I think I will keep track of how many units of sustainable forest are freed up by the kilns to avoid completely nonsensical results.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
So we need to do a lot of Build Theatre. Got it!
I listed the forest usage as 28{25}/28 in my stat breakdown for this very reason.
BungieONI
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It's even more disturbing when you realize those 5 actions are just 1/10th of all our actions.
Lotta weight they bear.