Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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Not necessarily. We need to lower it enough by Mid-Turn, but between that and our next turn, we should be able to fit in a PSN {M} Expand Econ. If we take Ironworks, that will give us +10. I suspect strongly that we're also going to get some refugees which will offset our city expenditure next turn. WY is set up to to lose land this turn and that will absolutely tank their stability.
It would put us on razor margins for next turn, but we could manage it.
Considering current Stab, we should:
{M}Proclaim Glory
{S} Enforce Justice
{S} Restoration of Order
{S} Palace Annex - Arsenal
{S} Palace Annex - Storehouse
{G} Ironworks - Redshore
{G} Efficient Charcoal Kiln
Econ cost: 2+0+0+2+2+3+2=11 (This means we would go into Mid-Turn with 1 Econ.
Stab:+3-5 (Since we're stuck at -2 again we need as much as we can get)
This would push Wealth to 5 as well, just enough not to get the Guilds on our case.
This has the benefit of taking us to 8 Centralization which is our 'safe' cap, any higher and we're red.
That would take us down to 2 Econ at the Mid-Turn. The Provinces might try to fit in a {S} Expand Econ, but it shouldn't rise that much. It currently is only worth +4, which next turn would leave us at 5 Econ, perfect! Combined with the Martial we'll lose to Second Sons, we might be able to hit the Martial requirement. Martial is currently 3(+1), our Free Cities are likely to 'helpfully' go on Armarment policy (Second Sons normally costs 3 Martial) so we'll enter Mid-Turn with three. We just have to hope that our Province actions will keep us below 6 Econ, they can't get over it since our Wealth is too low for Build Mills and {S} Expand Econ is all they can do due to lack of EE slots.
Suck it! We can hit <5 Martial by Mid-Turn, gain a lot of Stab, and push Centralization up to 8. All without breaking the (Econ) bank or dropping Wealth lower than 5.
We totally can, yes. Festival costs no stats in net, actually - and while PG costs a bit, that is mostly culture so it won't break the bank.
And we can implement some of the reforms. {S} Ironworks in addition to the above works great.
14 Econ. Taxes cover the City Upkeep.
I've already described what our turn should look like dozens of pages ago:
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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Why only Freehills? We can invite the WY, the KH, potentially the Saffron Isles & Storm Wolves, etc.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Does it?
Do we actually know that? I don't so I can't have any confidence in a plan that spends more than 8 Econ.
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I really don't want to invite the WY since I feel it will legitimize their bullshit and make it seem like it's okay what they did.
Yeah, no. We knew it was likely SS would still be running if we took the city. There was a chance it might end, but I always thought it was a long shot.We shouldn't invite the WY because they are already participating. Get with the times.
Anyway, Freehills are especially important because we just helped them take the strait.
At the very least, we KNOW we get refugee income at the same time, which gives us 12 econ to spare.
In any case. The plan I put out costs 1 (PG) + 3 (Ironworks) + 2 (Charcoal Kilns) + 2 (Porcelain Works) = 8 Econ, so it is fine.
They already came to the game.
Also, closing off the games to the WY would probably be counterproductive in countering any slavery influences.
And The Games are source of diplomatic info, which we really need to keep track of.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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The whole point of inviting people to the games is cultural infiltration.
The WY and their conquest doesn't need to be "legitimized." They already exist. They were permitted to continue by kings too weak to control their warriors and governors. The slavery was just the natural process of conquest by warriors rather than actual, steady expansion or the official integration of another polity by our own.
The WY and their conquest doesn't need to be "legitimized." They already exist. They were permitted to continue by kings too weak to control their warriors and governors. The slavery was just the natural process of conquest by warriors rather than actual, steady expansion or the official integration of another polity by our own.
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If they are coming, I don't care. But I won't waste an action inviting them when we still need to invite Khem, & Freehills, and can barely afford the actions to do that.
BungieONI
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Ah good to hear about that the () stuff comes in alongside expenses. That's wonderful now that that's cleared up for me.
Hmm...
And your plan has us spending 2 wealth and gaining 2 for net 0. Good!
We should be safe then. Sad thing is that it doesn't do a survey.
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I'm less worried about countering their slavery, and more worried about their corrupting influence eroding our anti-slavery values.
Since our new religion already has justification for slavery, I'm worried people might see the WY and think that they're a good thing to replicate.
Plus, they're a bunch of assholes that I hate for being traitors, so I'm against them on principle.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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You can invite multiple ppl w/ a single action, afaik.
They don't have justification for slavery, they have justification for a caste system.
I guess you could call it a justification for slavery or imagine that it would drift into it, but considering that the only people who are using this justification are those in other areas that historically practiced slavery, that the religion's syncretic nature means wholesale spread is unlikely due to its partitioning, etc., I am unconcerned in regards to the corruption of our state.
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The other way around, actually - it creates Martial, the same way training Carrion Eaters / Blackbirds does.
1 per, I'm afraid.
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I was under the impression that after the initial games invite, it costs 1 secondary per invite.
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Here's the action for reference:
More Spiritbonded - Those who are one with their horses possess remarkably combat capacities
*S: -2 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -5 Wealth, +2 Martial, +1 Culture, +1 Light Cavalry
So it creates martial and light cavalry.
Expensive, but should be no problem once we bump up our econ.
Wait, if we are at our centralization cap, that means that new cities will send us above max centralization. We are going to be completing our urban poor quest by the mid-turn, which will remove our plague status. We are at econ expansion 6. We can currently support 1-2 cities without admin strain.
Current non-free cities
Valleyhome
Blackshore
Sacred Forest comes online at 23 EE
Stallion Pen comes online at 20 EE
Lower Valleyhome comes online at 15 EE
We are going to need to do some combination of: distribute land, build governor's palace (if bonus is rounded down), and create free cities.
Current non-free cities
Valleyhome
Blackshore
Sacred Forest comes online at 23 EE
Stallion Pen comes online at 20 EE
Lower Valleyhome comes online at 15 EE
We are going to need to do some combination of: distribute land, build governor's palace (if bonus is rounded down), and create free cities.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
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Ugh, i am so very behind...at the very least i'm gonna get some diffs up and searchable.
Here are the three that i've posted diffs for but not actually done a proper post for, now with a couple diffs updated where i had been around to take diffs of AN's changes but hadn't updated my post, and added titles so the diffs are searchable:
And here are the diffs for this last update:
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
I'll do at least a searchable post for the coming update later, probably tomorrow, especially since that will increase the chances that i actually update the infrastructure tracker finally, but here are the diffs for the pre-update changes AN made:
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
So... @PrimalShadow @BungieONI I dont suppose there are any posts floating around that adequately go over the current plan(s)? I've followed the updates and AN posts, but i haven't done the math (or read posts of those doing the math) for things like what we need to do to beat crises and the like :/
Here are the three that i've posted diffs for but not actually done a proper post for, now with a couple diffs updated where i had been around to take diffs of AN's changes but hadn't updated my post, and added titles so the diffs are searchable:
And here are the diffs for this last update:
Analysis and Diffcheckers -- "Myranyn Reforms I"
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
I'll do at least a searchable post for the coming update later, probably tomorrow, especially since that will increase the chances that i actually update the infrastructure tracker finally, but here are the diffs for the pre-update changes AN made:
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
So... @PrimalShadow @BungieONI I dont suppose there are any posts floating around that adequately go over the current plan(s)? I've followed the updates and AN posts, but i haven't done the math (or read posts of those doing the math) for things like what we need to do to beat crises and the like :/
BungieONI
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We've got one more Yellow Cent value so we can stand to have Sacred Forest come online in the mid turn(So long as we gain no Cent). (I think we have to maintain less than 15 EE through the mid turn and till next main turn for all of them to come back)
If we make Lower Valleyhome a Free City that saves us one, and its completely safe to do that to Lower Valleyhome since it is so close to Upper Valleyhome.
Going into the mid turn with PrimalShadows plan:
{M} Restoration of Order
{S} Proclaim Glory
{S} Enforce Justice
{S} Ironworks L1
{S} Invite Freehills to Games
{G} Charcoal Kilns
{G} Porcelain Works
We will have Expansion 6 +8 +6 = 20 in the mid turn. So Sacred Forest can come back in the main turn following I think.
Doing a Free City of Lower Valleyhome, I can't recall how it affects the others right now, and then the -2 Econ means we don't gain +2 Expansion I think since it is a transfer.
Stallionpen should still be quiet since you have to be below the thresholds for them to come back.
E: Also I think one of the Reforms was making Blackmouth a Free City.
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It is hard to say, since we are missing a bunch of info.
For example: what the hell is up with us being at Yellow Cent? We should be well below our max, at least until our cities come back up.
And: Should we really be at -2 stability, or is that an oversight?
And: What are the specials this turn? Do we get extra progress on our reforms based on e.g. building the Ironworks?
And: What is the SS crisis next turn?
BungieONI
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Like @PrimalShadow said we are missing a lot of important info.
For now though our concerns are:
We can't spend more than 12 Econ at once. (Thank Crow for refugees paying out the same time as expenses come in)
Our Merc income is still -2 and should be -3 (@Academia Nut? It should be right?) so we can't safely spend more than about 2 Wealth assuming 4 is still high enough not to have the Guilds freak. 1 Wealth if 4 is dangerous. (E: Though this changes if Trade Disruption goes away)
Our Cent 7 is Yellow and we have several cities priming to come back online and we have to be careful lest they drop us into Red. (Also this will boost Panem costs enormously in three updates)
Our Cent 7 does not seem to be high enough to make the Cent req on Second Son green. 8 is possibly sufficient?
We likely have another -3 Martial and -1 Stability coming from Second Son. FC's handle the Martial but we need to handle the Stability.
We need to make some kind of progress on the reforms as they seem to be our only chance to finish the Second Son and due to being time limited. (E2: And the Guild Quest! Gotta do that too)
Our Econ is giving too much due to S&P, we need to somehow get to Econ 3 or less. Doing this also helpfully reduces the possible number of cities which come back.
I miss anything @PrimalShadow?
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It's possible that the cities being depopulated is not taken into account with the admin strain since their infrastructure is still there?