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Paths of Civilization

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Or we could not sabotage our success on a whim, or to make a point, or just to see what happens when you make horrible decisions on purpose. I like it when we aren't on fire. Not burning is nice.
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I wouldn't call it a whim. Figuring out whether magic exists now will help color all choices in the future. We're potentially saving ourselves a huge amount of trouble later on. I also like it when we're not on fire- it would be nice to know whether magic is able to settle the blaze when that happens or whether it's just more fuel.

In regards to the possibility of the gods taking their blessing back if we screw things up; isn't that then a paradox? And shouldn't they have known what we'd do with our blessing before ever giving it? Honestly, if magic is going to be completely unreliable and as fickle as that, then its not worth bothering with anyway.

I don't know about ya'll, but I'm happy to take a wound now in order to avoid a killing blow later.

That all being said, I get the feeling that our GM is dicking around with us in order to simulate the lack of information that people in this age had. If at any point we decide to go science or magic full stop, I get the feeling that he will then lay the other on thick in order to confuse us. Which is honestly what makes this quest so enjoyable for me- the lack of clear information. So maybe stop fighting and vote on what sounds most enjoyable and pleasing to our aesthetics? None of it honestly matters in the end. We're all screwed anyway. Going through with Umi-san's little science experiment in a limited fashion that doesn't absolutely wreck us sounds fun to me.
 
[X][Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X][Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)

Realized i didn't vote earlier
 
So, next turn is confirmed for at least one secondary influence on each of our new vassals?
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They seriously need it. Both in terms of culture and in terms of fixing their kicked in shit
 
[X] [Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X][PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
 
Just because magic exists doesn't mean it's incomprehensible. The powerful thing about science is that it analyzes anything that's repeatable- and of the two types of magic we've seen, both are at least to some degree repeatable.
1) Weather/heavens magic: we've identified that the stars have some sort of real influence that is not the case IRL. The Spirit Talkers made extensive use of this to cause/predict flood/drought cycles and summoning lightning... according to rumors, at least.
2) Personal magic: the predictions of our geniuses (especially the Crows of our Martial genius) and the trances of the Spirit Talkers' Sacred Warriors are both indications of another break from IRL physics.

Something that I find interesting is that our Blackbirds and Carrion Eaters are both Sacred Warriors, but have no need to interact with either of these breaks in IRL physics.

Both of these have been reproduced to varying degrees, and are thus amenable to study. We should thus study them as much as possible. However, we should not trust only in them- while they might be powerful, they're not that powerful. Plentiful Iron is far a bigger game-changer than being able to drop a meteor every thousand years. Food is more important than a lightning bolt every other century. The Spirit Talkers learned that lesson the harsh way.

Black/Star Mirror is better for study of type 2, Horse Valley is better for the study of type 1.
 
I really think we are missing out on using our military on non-war related activities. This option here would put our genius general's ability to coordinate in peaceful and objectively good act of evacuating devastated population. Which will lead to development in peace keeping and policing panicking people.

[][Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)

Too long didn't read: This lasting choice in using military to do non-military activity will lead to development of less violent branch of martial department, aka Police.
 
Umi-san said:
...?
abby-san/chan.... you're abandoning our brothers in life, the TH
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I don't want us to over expand; i also know that vote is completely tied up, so i feel free to go with that instinct instead of doing a more thorough analysis or reading through the dozens of pages i skipped :p

DocMatoi said:
So, next turn is confirmed for at least one secondary influence on each of our new vassals?
Like
They seriously need it. Both in terms of culture and in terms of fixing their kicked in shit
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Well our admin hero is in control, so its up to him, but we probably don't have the actions for it... we've got our guild action tied up in finishing grand docks, because we never rolled bonus progress an we rolled the full 6 actions in needed progress. We've got either a main action or a secondary action tied up for place to the stars; probably the latter, setting our provinces to it. So our hero will probably have a main and one secondary to work with...and we'll need centralization, we'll want stability to go to a golden age, and we'll want to complete the remaining quests, so at most i think he'd influence or integrate one vassal.
 
Locking in as

[X][PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X][Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[x][Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[x][PttS] Black Mirror
[x][PttS] 0 Stability
[X][Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)

First thing to do will be to update the map.​
 
DocMatoi said:
We're still on mega support I think
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Admin hero just switched to balanced this last turn, to complete more quests (and presumably because he didn't want to start a new megaproject, and decided the quests, and not wasting 2 secondaries on stat actions, were more important than ensuring we finished grand docks last turn)
 
@Academia Nut does the econ damage from the lowlands choice get refunded by our true cities like most econ expenses?
Academia Nut said:
[X][Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
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Edit: For that matter, is it actually a transfer and therefore fully refunded?
 
Academia Nut said:
According to our calculations, if we perform a series of extremely careful steps we can ensure fabulous peace and prosperity for at least a century, but if we fail at this, or worse yet turn against the prophecies, then terrible ruin might be awaiting us," the High Priest explained.

"Explain," the king asked, narrowing his eyes.

"I'll gloss over the details that got us here, but within the turning of the next solstice we must let go of one enemy, take up a shield for a friendly stranger, and bring forth a dragon and dragon egg to the east," the Spirit Chief explained.
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Negaverse - Misinterpreted Prophecy
  • Apocrypha
    • Thunder Horse Negaverse
    The Dragon from the West
    ​
    TBD said:
    Macademia Nut said:
    "The sun shall set upon the dragon of the West.
    It's roar deafens the ears of men.
    It's claws tear the earth.
    As it falls, all burn.
    A black bird.
    Weeps.
    "
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    So, has anyone deciphered the prophecy yet. I think we can all agree it talks about the decline of the Ymarin (Khmetri?) and the ensuing chaos, but I'm still unsure about some things. For example, that deafening roar. It doesn't really fit with what they're doing. They bribe their enemies, they don't threaten them.
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    Macademia Nut said:
    Vote Locked
    [x] Move forces towards the Eastern Border (Stop advance vs Harmurri , Weaken Eastern Garisson, Prepare for strike vs the Ymarin)
    [x] Support Prophecy (???)
    -[X] Support [x2]
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    Soldiers crowd the city to the bursting point. The atmosphere in the city is tense, the threat of war fraying the nerves of the soldiers and citizens. Every day more soldiers arrive, long columns of men marching across dirt tracks towards the border towns. The space within the walls has long since filled, and so the tents sprawl around the city, fields of white and gray slowly engulfing the surrounding farmland. The farmers grumble as they see their harvest trampled inch by inch. They will endure, as their grandfathers had when their fathers went to war. Now, their sons go to war, and victory shall come.

    Their honor demands it. The prophecy foretells it. It was on everyone's lips these days, recounted by every priest and orator. The Dragon of the West was coming. The Dragon company hsd marched towards the border, their general among them. The priests said she was a cripple, her body brought down by the sheer amount of blood curses the Thunder Horse had sworn against her in the last war. The hate still ran deep, and the warriors hsd seethed when they first heard their chance at vengeance was so close. But the priests pled with the King to wait, and he agreed. The prophecy must be followed. It was the only way.

    When the sun set, and the Dragon fell, only then would they strike.

    Today, the day of the fall, a mild summer breeze blows through the fields. It is a nice day. The farmers work their animals, the workmen ply their craft, merchants heckle goods and the soldiers train at arms. If not for the latter, it would be a perfectly ordinary day. Even so, the war appeared far away. Just like the weeks before, the scouts had reported no movement among the Ymarin forces on the river. They were still there, still watchful, just waiting. The King is getting impatient, and the soldiers restless. Humor helps them pass the time . Perhaps, one jokes, the Ymarin are waiting for their General to take the first step. Perhaps, another replies, they daree not leave the forest for fear the sky will fall upon their heads.

    As the soldiers joke and the King debated by his priest, the sun slowly sets behind the distant mountains. Beneath a blood red sky, citizens and soldiers alike are slowly returning to their homes and tents. Suddenly, a single cry interrupts this ordinary. The Western sky, red like blood, is glowing. The air feels hot, like a sweltering summers day. As the glow brightens, more and more people stop to observe this clearly divine sign. When the light becomes blinding, they avert their eyes. Some take of clothes to deal with the now suffocating heat.

    And then the screams start. People flee from the now burning light, stumble halfblinded, looking for shelter where they can find it. The priests take refuge in the Temple, the citizens in their houses, the soldiers in their tents.Others hide in ditches or behind walls, doing everything not to get caught by the burning light.

    Then, suddenly, the sky ruptures and the Gods themselves wipe clean the land. With one big sweep they reap the fields, flatten the smouldering tents and tear down the houses of the city. No single house, not even the Temple, is spared. Thousands die, crushed by the ruins of their homes. Those who remain are wounded or unconcious. They do not escape when the fire engulfs the city.


    CubitoServantes said:
    Thread Locked

    Really, I say I'm going to take a week off, and then you do this?
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  • Apocrypha
    • Abby Normal said:
    Well our admin hero is in control, so its up to him, but we probably don't have the actions for it... we've got our guild action tied up in finishing grand docks, because we never rolled bonus progress an we rolled the full 6 actions in needed progress. We've got either a main action or a secondary action tied up for place to the stars; probably the latter, setting our provinces to it. So our hero will probably have a main and one secondary to work with...and we'll need centralization, we'll want stability to go to a golden age, and we'll want to complete the remaining quests, so at most i think he'd influence or integrate one vassal.
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    Oh, @DocMatoi to add to this, we also have hints that we should be building a theatre, and i dont think AN ever confirmed whether we succeeded in the traders quest with the iron trade, and we apparently get new quests after a single turn, so depending on when exactly that works, our admin hero might have those to focus on too...
     
    10ebbor10 said:
    Thunder Horse Negaverse
    The Dragon from the West
    ​



    Soldiers crowd the city to the bursting point. The atmosphere in the city is tense, the threat of war fraying the nerves of the soldiers and citizens. Every day more soldiers arrive, long columns of men marching across dirt tracks towards the border towns. The space within the walls has long since filled, and so the tents sprawl around the city, fields of white and gray slowly engulfing the surrounding farmland. The farmers grumble as they see their harvest trampled inch by inch. They will endure, as their grandfathers had when their fathers went to war. Now, their sons go to war, and victory shall come.

    Their honor demands it. The prophecy foretells it. It was on everyone's lips these days, recounted by every priest and orator. The Dragon of the West was coming. The Dragon company hsd marched towards the border, their general among them. The priests said she was a cripple, her body brought down by the sheer amount of blood curses the Thunder Horse had sworn against her in the last war. The hate still ran deep, and the warriors hsd seethed when they first heard their chance at vengeance was so close. But the priests pled with the King to wait, and he agreed. The prophecy must be followed. It was the only way.

    When the sun set, and the Dragon fell, only then would they strike.

    Today, the day of the fall, a mild summer breeze blows through the fields. It is a nice day. The farmers work their animals, the workmen ply their craft, merchants heckle goods and the soldiers train at arms. If not for the latter, it would be a perfectly ordinary day. Even so, the war appeared far away. Just like the weeks before, the scouts had reported no movement among the Ymarin forces on the river. They were still there, still watchful, just waiting. The King is getting impatient, and the soldiers restless. Humor helps them pass the time . Perhaps, one jokes, the Ymarin are waiting for their General to take the first step. Perhaps, another replies, they daree not leave the forest for fear the sky will fall upon their heads.

    As the soldiers joke and the King debated by his priest, the sun slowly sets behind the distant mountains. Beneath a blood red sky, citizens and soldiers alike are slowly returning to their homes and tents. Suddenly, a single cry interrupts this ordinary. The Western sky, red like blood, is glowing. The air feels hot, like a sweltering summers day. As the glow brightens, more and more people stop to observe this clearly divine sign. When the light becomes blinding, they avert their eyes. Some take of clothes to deal with the now suffocating heat.

    And then the screams start. People flee from the now burning light, stumble halfblinded, looking for shelter where they can find it. The priests take refuge in the Temple, the citizens in their houses, the soldiers in their tents.Others hide in ditches or behind walls, doing everything not to get caught by the burning light.

    Then, suddenly, the sky ruptures and the Gods themselves wipe clean the land. With one big sweep they reap the fields, flatten the smouldering tents and tear down the houses of the city. No single house, not even the Temple, is spared. Thousands die, crushed by the ruins of their homes. Those who remain are wounded or unconcious. They do not escape when the fire engulfs the city.


    ​
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    This is really nice, the only thing I found disappointing was the lack of seeing the negaverse go into a salt fueled meltdown.
     
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