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Paths of Civilization

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Somebodynobody10 said:
I voted yes here.

But once again, I must remind you.

The main goal of taking out the HK isn't some irrational hate-boner, but cold, logical and simultaneously justified, calculus.
The constant "You Doing This Because RAEG!" isn't in any way helping the thread, nor doing anything else than pushing people to double-down in retaliation.
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As someone who is in favor of eliminating the HK from the board, I'm afraid I have to say I have been getting the feeling that some people want to get rid of the HK just because of blind hatred.

I haven't been paying attention to that argument, because it got old fast, and I'm not going to go and dig to find names to put the blame on, but our faction of wanting to remove the HK for political and military reasons is at least being partially misrepresented by others. It's rather annoying, and I do hope people not on our side will remember that a nice, logical group of us exist here, even if it's not all of us.
 
[X] Yes (Forfeits the CB against the Highlanders, declares war against the Thunder Horse, brings Yenyna out of retirement, ???)
 
notgreat said:
Sounds good. Then we'll be in a 2-way war against enemies we can beat.

We tied the Khemetri (a peer power) while in a 3-way war and led by a genius martial.
We still have that genius.
A 2-sided war against lessers would prove the predictions wrong and we can just go and crush them. And this time, we won't be going against the Khemetri and we'll be able to finish off the HK.
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So your plan boils down to exploiting the opportunities generated by this act of wanton randomness and if that fails, be utterly reckless to blow the prediction?

Are you really sure that the cure isn't worse then the disease?
 
Concho117 said:
Looking at the map, if we attack the TH we are definitely going to be attacked by the HK.
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That's the entire point. If we attack [insert polity here] we're going to be attacked by the HK. If [insert polity here] attacks us, we're going to be attacked by the HK. If a nomad sneezes in our direction, we're (probably) going to be attacked by the HK. And the HK has Intrigue, which we apparently haven't heard of. King Suicidal Pacifist over here is going to get us all killed along with him.

maximillian said:
There is a very simple reason to bring the Highlanders under our dominion:
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You do realize that this kind of argument actually hurts your case, right? The pacifist faction exists for a reason, and probably takes this kind of thing as "we should do X because I'm right and you're wrong".
 
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bluefur87 said:
As someone who is in favor of eliminating the HK from the board, I'm afraid I have to say I have been getting the feeling that some people want to get rid of the HK just because of blind hatred.
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Bolded the important part.
Some.

The fact remains that almost every time someone seems to argue against going to war with HK, they immediately attack the Hateboners and either ignore or insufficiently defend against the Calculus - thus creating an effect of radicalization as people either agree with the assessment or cry foul and jump into the war-wagon.
 
Carrnage said:
Proof?
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Susano is gone for a bit so i'll answer your question.

Generally all celestial bodies are governed by two things:
a) gravity
b) momentum

Essentially, unless something weird is going on, all planets/stars/etc. follow predefined orbits. Therefore trying to predict things on earth using celestial bodies is useless because those same celestial bodies already follow pre-determined paths and are not affected by events on earth.
 
[X] Yes (Forfeits the CB against the Highlanders, declares war against the Thunder Horse, brings Yenyna out of retirement, ???)
 
Concho117 said:
Generally all celestial bodies are governed by two things:
a) gravity
b) momentum

Essentially, unless something weird is going on, all planets/stars/etc. follow predefined orbits. Therefore trying to predict things on earth using celestial bodies is useless because those same celestial bodies already follow pre-determined paths and are not affected by events on earth.
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What update was this in?
 
Azel said:
So your plan boils down to exploiting the opportunities generated by this act of wanton randomness and if that fails, be utterly reckless to blow the prediction?

Are you really sure that the cure isn't worse then the disease?
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Pretty much, yeah. Being reckless is betting big and has potential huge payoff. See: Our last turns, where we've gotten 3 megaprojects (almost) complete in 2 turns. We basically just do that while also grabbing all the largest Golden Age innovations being offered.

Concho117 said:
Susano is gone for a bit so i'll answer your question.

Generally all celestial bodies are governed by two things:
a) gravity
b) momentum

Essentially, unless something weird is going on, all planets/stars/etc. follow predefined orbits. Therefore trying to predict things on earth using celestial bodies is useless because those same celestial bodies already follow pre-determined paths and are not affected by events on earth.
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That's the case IRL. We still don't even know if planets exist in this world beyond us living on something and there being stars and comets in the sky.
 
bluefur87 said:
As someone who is in favor of eliminating the HK from the board, I'm afraid I have to say I have been getting the feeling that some people want to get rid of the HK just because of blind hatred.

I haven't been paying attention to that argument, because it got old fast, and I'm not going to go and dig to find names to put the blame on, but our faction of wanting to remove the HK for political and military reasons is at least being partially misrepresented by others. It's rather annoying, and I do hope people not on our side will remember that a nice, logical group of us exist here, even if it's not all of us.
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Most definitely. I mean, I definitely want to get rid of the HK because I don't like them, but I don't pursue decisions on emotion. Otherwise I would vote towards something to just destroy our civ whenever I get angry at people for voting a certain way. There are legitimate reasons to pursue the removal of HK as an independent polity. There are even reasons to pursue the removal of HK as a polity militarily as opposed to diplomatically.

What I am trying to get at is even though we all definitely have feelings towards various potential actions, we of this thread in general don't let it be what arouses us to action.
 
Taking the HK would make our borders much more secure. We already have so many enemies/potential enemies. Do we really need the HK stabbing us in the back whenever they can? There's no guarantee they will attack this time if we choose Yes. They only do so when they think they can win, and after their recent defeat they will be more cautious. If we let the HK go this time, the next time we're fighting off a giant nomad horde or a peer power, the HK will hit us again, and this time maybe it will do irreparable damage.
 
I'm leaning no, but honestly I just don't feel like I have enough information to really make a good choice. I really want to interrogate them on the specifics of what they're coming up with here. How can you have this mathematical proof and a set of instructions, but nothing more specific than 'or something bad will happen'?

Tell me they predict a draught, and okay I can follow that line of logic. Tell me they think the HK made a secret pact with the Trelli and we're looking at another three-sided war if we attack them, and okay we can work with that. Do x, y, z or... something bad? Where the hell are they getting the x, y, z from?
 
Carrnage said:
What update was this in?
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notgreat said:
Pretty much, yeah. Being reckless is betting big and has potential huge payoff. See: Our last turns, where we've gotten 3 megaprojects (almost) complete in 2 turns. We basically just do that while also grabbing all the largest Golden Age innovations being offered.


That's the case IRL. We still don't even know if planets exist in this world beyond us living on something and there being stars and comets in the sky.
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We can safely assume this is true if the Ymaryn live in a physical universe which allows for basic math.
 
Concho117 said:
New Map.

Pirates got ROFLstomped and TH are at war with SF(now Hamurri):


​

Hey @Academia Nut how's the new map coming? I really want to update the not!Levant on the StratMap.​
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A few things that I noticed when looking at the map again:
- we could please the Yeomen by putting a colony in the empty area between HK and the SF / Harmurri
- pushing the border to the eastern branch of the river in a war with the TH would be pretty cost neutral on the defence / border size front
-- it would expose our eastern holdings to the steppe through the Spirit Channel, but I don't think the nomads hit the TH there at all, so we would only get spread out attacks
-- it would be the perfect spot for a march that can protect the TH border and push against nomads
- Greenshore and Western Wall are nearly linked already and the spot between them would be another nice target for the Yeomen mission
- we could build a channel from the Heavens Hawk main settlement to the Stallion Tribe core, which seems much more useful then linking the other two river branches for trade, but would still provide a huge area with irrigation
 
NewAgeOfPower said:
The problem here is that players are emotionally invested in the quest; which speaks voles of Academia Nut's writing & worldbuilding abilities.

If players were not emotionally invested, however, that would decrease the quality of the quest as players would be less motivated to make the correct choices.

(All of us growing up, to stop being infantile and petty would be harder than peace in the Middle East, sadly.)
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We are not animals passing through life without thought or morality.

To excuse offensive behavior as necessary to an emotionally invested group of participants puts us lower than dogs.
PyrrosWarrior said:
Most definitely. I mean, I definitely want to get rid of the HK because I don't like them, but I don't pursue decisions on emotion. Otherwise I would vote towards something to just destroy our civ whenever I get angry at people for voting a certain way. There are legitimate reasons to pursue the removal of HK as an independent polity. There are even reasons to pursue the removal of HK as a polity militarily as opposed to diplomatically.

What I am trying to get at is even though we all definitely have feelings towards various potential actions, we of this thread in general don't let it be what arouses us to action.
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Same. I want to do something, but not let emotions rule on something so serious.
 
Ignoring moderator warning.
Well hey, now we know which members of the thread would have been religious nutheads if they were born in a different time.

"There's no evidence that magic and superstition are real, and there are mundane explanations for everything ascribed to them. So the most sound assumption is that they're not real."

"Oh yeah? Well there's no evidence magic isn't real! Those stars in the night sky are almost certainly the eyes of the gods watching us! Show me the update that disproves magic."
 
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Bob Saget said:
Well hey, now we know which members of the thread would have been religious nutheads if they were born in a different time.

"There's no evidence that magic and superstition are real, and there are mundane explanations for everything ascribed to them. So the most sound assumption is that they're not real."

"Oh yeah? Well there's no evidence magic isn't real! Those stars in the night sky are almost certainly the eyes of the gods watching us!"
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@Bob Saget I am fairly certain that is the type of thing the mods will infract for. Be careful
 
The most basic equation for celestial objects is: F = (G*m1*m2)/r^2
This equation cannot be changes or this planet would not be able to exist.
 
Bob Saget said:
Well hey, now we know which members of the thread would have been religious nutheads if they were born in a different time.

"There's no evidence that magic and superstition are real, and there are mundane explanations for everything ascribed to them. So the most sound assumption is that they're not real."

"Oh yeah? Well there's no evidence magic isn't real! Those stars in the night sky are almost certainly the eyes of the gods watching us! Show me the update that disproves magic."
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That's pretty much only a strawman argument and needlessly antagonizing.

We have no reason to assume that our OOC knowledge matches the IC reality. ICly, we don't know any mundane explanations for the movement of planets.
 
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